2001 will not start

[ADrian Cardenas]

I just had my 2001 gs serviced at the shop. It sat in my gargae for a week and now it will not start. The battery is charged. i push the start button to get the temporary power and i have to hold it for longer than normal. When i put the key in, i get a beep but when i push the start button it beeps again, sometimes twice...i believe its the starter but i have no clue if the starter has a starter wire or how this system works....Pleae help...The delaer is TOOOOOOOOOOO expensive...:ack:

 

[seadoosnipe]

More info....

How many beeps do you get? That's very important in trying to trouble shoot your problem.

Try this, with the lanyard cap off, push the start stop button 5 times. On the fith time, you should hear one long and one short beep. Then, put the lanyard cap on the post and push the button. If it starts, then all is o.k. with the DESS system. If you get additional beeps, let me know how many. Be sure to count them...........that is very important.

 

[ADrian Cardenas]

Thanks for the assist but I'm a novice and did not know that a gs key was different than a 3 seater key...Thanks

 

[seadoosnipe]

Dess....

In the mid 90's, the Sea-Doo watercraft installed a theft protection system called the DESS, digital electronic security system. If you use the lanyard from someone else ski, then you should get one long beep.
You have to use the lanyard cap programmed for your ski. If you don't have one, then you'll have to take it to a dealer and buy one, get it programmed, then you should be back in business. It should cost you about $75 bucks....

 

[luv2pla]

1997 Challenger - also won't start

I've have a 1997 Seadoo Challenger that also will not start. It has been sitting for a couple of years waiting for me to fix the impeller, which I finally did. I charged up a battery, which I have since had load-checked and found to be good, and put it in. I put the boat in neutral and put the DESS on and heard two beeps. When I push the start button, nothing happens. The lights don't dim, there is no click, nothing. I guess my question is what is the best way to start tracking down the problem? Can/should I jumper across the relay terminal in the electrical box to see if power gong directly to the started will work? Is there a way to bypass the start button to see if it's bad? Where should I look first, after the aforementioned battery?

Thanks from a newbie!

 

[kustomkarl]

Welcome to the seadoo forum luv2play. I own a 1997 challenger also with a single 787 engine. If the doo has been sitting for a while, but you hear the 2 beeps that's a good sign. Do you hear any clicks from the start solenoid? I would pull the spark plugs and add a couple Oz's of marvel mystery oil in the cylinders, first of all to add some lubrication to the rings and pistons. Check the wires to the starter and look for any loose connections to the electrics. if all is tight and it doesn't click, than bypass the solenoid with a hot wire and jump the solenoid. Let us know if this helps and if you still have the problem and it isn't turning over give us a shout and we'll do something else.

Karl

 

[luv2pla]

I did pull the plugs and put some wd-40 in the cylinders - I also have Marvel Mystery oil and I'll add a few drops of that. I was able to get the engine to turn over a little by hand, OK wrench.

I did not hear any clicking from the solenoid. I was able to measure voltage on teh battery side, but I have been able to check the other side while trying to start it - I'll get some help and see if I get anything there. It really doesn't seem like it's trying to engage the solenoid, but I'll know better with an extra hand. IF that doesn't show any voltage crossing, I'll try jumping it. If that doesn't work, I'll be back!

 

[kustomkarl]

Cool, let us know how you make out. I hope it is just the solenoid, and the engine isn't sized up from sitting. You could check that by loosening the boot on the impeller shaft, slide it back and see it it turns over by hand, with the spark plugs out.

Karl

 

[seadoosnipe]

Beeps.....

To add to this, I would also check the fuses in the electrical box. Sounds like your 15 amp fuse may be blown. If you get lights, power and beeps, then your link to the solenoid should at least click if all is good there. And if the fuses are all good, then you may have an issue with the start/stop button.
There is an electrical test on the start/stop switch. It's a basic circuit open, circuit closed test.
If you put on the lanyard and jump across the solenoid and get a start. Then your swich is probably bad..............:cheers:

 

[All Things Custom]

Just my two cents:

I think it may be the silinoid, they are notorious for going out just sitting from corosion. jump across the silinoid and see if it turns over.

if that works pull the plug on the silinoid and test voltage there when the starter button is pushed. if you have voltage when it is pushed, then the silinoid is bad.

 

[seadoosnipe]

solenoid....

That was my first thought was the solenoid was going out. But he said there were no clicks, nothing. Usually when the solenoid goes out, you still get some kind of noise when you push the start/stop button.........
But hey, it's always worth a try..............:cheers:

 

[luv2pla]

I just went out and tried it again and now I can't even get it to beep. I plug in the DESS and the oil light comes on and I hear a click in the engine compartment, but nothing else happens. I'll mess with it some more tomorrow. Open to suggestions.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Battery....

I see where you say you recharged your battery. Hint, the mpem will not allow you to put power to the system if there isn't enough juice to fire the engine. I would suspect that your battery may be shot, or from all the trouble shooting, you ran it low. Recharge and try again.
Better yet, take it up to "advanced auto parts" and let them test it. It's free. They'll tell you if it's even holding a charge..........the battery for the Doo's are a very important part. They have to have just the right amount of amps or.......nothing.

 

[kustomkarl]

Be sure the battery is full charged. If it isn't disconnect it and charge it off the doo. DON'T Jump start it it will cause more electrical problems. Be sure the battery wires are tight also.

Karl

 

[luv2pla]

I see where you say you recharged your battery. Hint, the mpem will not allow you to put power to the system if there isn't enough juice to fire the engine. I would suspect that your battery may be shot, or from all the trouble shooting, you ran it low. Recharge and try again.
Better yet, take it up to "advanced auto parts" and let them test it. It's free. They'll tell you if it's even holding a charge..........the battery for the Doo's are a very important part. They have to have just the right amount of amps or.......nothing.

I did just that and they proclaimed it good, but I doubt it. I'm going to try a different battery because I think it's pretty suspect.

 

[kustomkarl]

Use the AGM (Advanced Glass Matt) battery if youn need to replace it from Interstate battery YTX20H-BI. It retails for about $85.00, and it is a replacement for your original battery.

Karl

 

[luv2pla]

I just tried a brand new battery and still nothing. Is there a way to see if voltage is getting to the controls? When I put the battery in yesterday, there was a pretty good spark at the battery, a click from near the dash, and that's when the key would no longer make a beeping sound.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Fuses.....

You should not have anything as far as some kind of spark from the battery when connecting. I had a light spark one time because I left my bilge pump on. But normally, you shouldn't have any.
Pull that box out of the front, under the cover at the steering wheel. Inside, you'll find a fuse box. From your description, you've blown a fuse up there. Maybe to your start/stop switch or contorls. If you have, whatever that circuit goes to is what's draining your battery and you'll need to identify what it goes to and find the short.
It sounds like, you may have a dead short somewhere. Two positive wires touching each other or a switch fused......
When checking the fuses up front, let us know which one it is, so we can look at the wiring PDF and give you some info on what color wires to be looking at..........

 

[luv2pla]

I did find the bilge pump was "on". It wasn't working, but there was power going to it. I disconnected it, and then took it's fuse out so there wouldn't be 12v going through the wire. I checked all the other fuses, front and rear, and none were blown.

I also plugged my voltmeter into the connector for the beeper. When I put the DESS on, there are two low voltage pulses, maybe 1 v each. When I move it from neutral to another position, it also pulses the voltmeter. I pecked around on the beeper but it never would beep.

Also, I checked the connector coming from the start button. When I pushed the button and was connected to the connector with the voltmeter on resistance, it showed continuity. But, when I test the connector at the solenoid with the DESS connected and the button pushed, there is no response. It is not getting power to the solenoid.

When I put the DESS on, there is a slight clicking coming from the electronic module. After the key is on for a minute or so, it clicks again like it shuts off.

I'm not sure what to check next.

By the way, with the cover off the electronic module, I jumped across the big solenoid terminals and the starter engaged. It didn't turn the motor over, but it did "whirl" like it was getting power. I only did it for a second so I wouldn't burn anything up.

 

[luv2pla]

Update...

I put the new battery in, and when I put the DESS on, I could hear a very faint beep, beep. I am now in the process of charging up both the old and new to see if I can get one of them to wake the thing up. Both show about 12.5 volts.

I charged them both for several hours and still nothing. I do get the two faints beeps, but no indication that power is going to the solenoid to turn the engine over. As best I can tell, there is no signal or power going to the solenoid. Should there be 12v across the two small terminals when the starter button is pushed?

When I plug in the DESS, I get a click in the MPEM box, followed by the two faint beeps. After about 30 seconds, I hear another click. I put my '97 GTI DESS on and I get a very quick click and then it immediately clicks again, so It acts like it is communicating and knows I've got the right DESS.

The other thing I did before I read all the posts saying not to was I connected the battery charger with the battery in the boat and connected. It's still behaving the same way as before, except the beeps are now quiet instead of loud.

 

[luv2pla]

This is getting to be more like a blog than a question and answer, but here's the latest.

I charged the new battery overnight, put it in the boat, and now I am back to square 1. After plugging in the DESS, I get a slight click from the MPEM, and two very distinct beeps. But when I push the start button, nothing happens.

What should I see at the solenoid when I hit the start button with the DESS plugged in? Voltage, current, or what?

Thanks.

 

[seadoosnipe]

luv2pla!.....

Wow, have I been missing your post or did you just sneak them all in under the wire..........
Well, good news. Your mpems sound like they are fine. If you used a voltmeter and/or test light on the buzzer and got the indication that it beeped twice, that means you got the right lanyard and it is communicating with the mpem. If you tried it in gear, you should get 4 beeps.
The clicking you hear is the power shut off relay. The mpem has built in protection that once you put the lanyard on, you have 33 seconds to start the motor. If you don't start it within that time frame, it shuts down power so not to drain your battery.
It sounds like your having a battery/power issue. Either your batteries aren't holding or capable of keeping the amount of cold cranking amps needed to power up the mpem. If it senses that you don't have the juice to start, it won't let you start.
You also need to check all your wires and terminals. Look at your grounds and leads from the battery into the electrical box and grounds to the engines. With you jumping across the solenoid and the starter spinning and not engaging the motor, makes me believe you dont' have the amps to spin it over fast enough to make the bendix throw it out to engage. It uses centrifugal force to throw it out.
This is not recommended, but it's something that probably will not hurt. If those batteries your trying to run are old and your just trying to get a start. In my opinion, it does sound like your problem is totally based on a lack of power to your electrical system.

 

[luv2pla]

1:30 p.m.
The battery I have in it now is brand new. It has 500 CCA's and 650 at 32F(it's the same as the one that came out of it that used to work fine)? It does seem like a power issue, but not totally. About the solenoid, what power should it show at the connector? There seems to be nothing getting to the connector when I push the button.

7:30 p.m.
I was away for a couple of hours, and when I got back and put the DESS on again, there were two little faint beeps. I then took that battery out, and put in a third different one and tried it. The two louds beeps were back, but still nothing from the starter or solenoid. I then put the newest battery in, and it did the beep, beep thing again. I have the bilge pump disconnected and out of the boat, and the fuse for it removed.

I was looking back up the list here, and someone said that there should be voltage across the solenoid connector ( the small one, not the two big ones) when I pushed the start button with the DESS in. There is no voltage at all. I did do the continuity test across the start/stop button connector, and when I pushed it, it showed a closed circuit, so it appears to be working. Is there something else in that circuit that could be keeping it from sending power to the solenoid? I once again tried jumping across the solenoid big terminals and the starter whirled but did not turn the engine over.

 

[luv2pla]

New Problem - Old one gone

Well, the problem with the start button has mysteriously and thankfully disappeared. I pulled the big connector off the MPEM and checked the continuity there when I pushed the start button. Then I wiggled all the wires in the MPEM, and when I put the key on and hit the button, it worked. Sorta.

Now it appears I have a starter problem. As I mentioned earlier, the starter only "whirls" when I push the button, it does not turn the motor over. I've banged on it with assorted tools, but it still just whirls. Is there another try at easy fixing, or does it have to come off? IF it has to come off, what is the best sequence? Everything is under the motor.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Getting closer...sorta

Wow, take two steps forward, then one step back!...........story of my life.
What's happening is that your bendix on your starter is not being thrown all the way out with centrifugal force to the point its making contact with your flywheel, which means one of two things.........your starter is going/gone out or your bendix has sat long enough to get sticky, not letting it be thrown out by the rotation of the starter. Since the starter cost $278.00 (P/N 278001935) bucks to replace, lets look at the bendix and see if you can get it to work. Problem is, you have to remove it.
If your getting power to the solenoid and it's sending a signal to the main wires to engage the starter, and it's not starting......then this may be the way to go. I'm kinda worried about the amount of power your getting into your system.
Lets try this before pulling the starter. With a good, hot battery in place, use a voltmeter to record the volts. Unplug your plug in the front of your magneto. This will only allow electrical power from the battery to power the electronics. This way, if theres a problem in the rectifier/regulator or grounded magneto or any other problem, we'll be bypassing it.
Then, when this is done. Put the cap on your post. Now, go to the solenoid and use your ground lead on the meter to set to ground. On the engine or any other black wire that you know to be ground. Then, with your red lead, test the power to the red wires going to the top of the solenoid, record them. Also, check all the other wires. On the two big red ones, the one from the battery should be the only one hot. The power wires from the solenoid on the down side, should be hot. Then, with someone to engage the start/stop switch, test the big red wire going to the starter and the starter wires on top of the solenoid. During the start procedure, they should all have power. I'll look in the manual, but I believe they should all have close to 12 vdc.
There is one benefit to your starter. The whold thing will come out without taking the mag apart. On some of the newer models, you can't get to the starters bendix without taking that cover off.
If all test show the power is there to the starter, I'd remove the starter and bench test it. IF you don't know how to do that, I'll help you there. Re-post when you get that far. If your bendix is sticking due to moisture getting to it, you may be able to spray some PB Blaster on it and free it up. Crossing your fingers that is the only problem. Cause a new starter is expensive.
Sorry for the long post, but sometimes, omitting info in sake of a short reply, may only confuse you...........................:cheers: