1998 GTI 717 No Start

[Vicious]

Hello ALL,

I have just bought a 1998 Sea-Doo GTI (717 Rotax engine). The former owner died and the history of the Doo is unknown. The motor turns over just fine with the new battery. The spark plug is brown and dry with a hit of white. I removed the spark plugs and added gas to the cylinders and put the plugs back in. Still no Joy:cuss:

I have read on another string to try WD-40 and will try this tomorrow. Could it be possible that the Doo sat and the carb needs to be cleaned and the fuel pump diaphragm needs replacing...in since, a complete carb rebuild kit installed to include the needle pin and seat.

Any help or thoughts are welcomed.

Vic

 

[kustomkarl]

Welcome to the seadoo forum Vic. As for the problem, lets start with basics. Do you get 2 beeps from the Lanyard dess,( Digital Electronic Security System)? Did you make sure the fuel is fresh? Is the fuel water separator clean and full of fuel? You said the plugs look good, check them for spark. If you say , yes to all, than do a compression check, to see how the internals of the engine are. If your not sure how to perform a compression check, give us a shout and we'll get you on the right track. Let us know more information and we'll go from there.

Karl

 

[Vicious]

2 beeps?

When I put the lanyard on I have not heard any beeps. Am I suppose to? The fuel is fresh, the oil is fresh QuickSilver TC-W3. I did notice the hose that leads back to the oil container from what appears to be the engine has fluid that looks like gas but it is only three quarters the way up, (could it be air locked?) I have new plugs but it does not seem to be fuel..

 

[kustomkarl]

Did you just get this seadoo? It should beep 2 times with the dess on to know it is ready to run, from my previous post. This is the recommended oil to use. Use High quality low ASH API TC Injector oil.
Do Not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or other ash less type 2 cycle oil. Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction will cause severe engine damage. Never mix Mineral or synthetics oil together.

Never use fuel containing more than 10 % alcohol,( Methanol or Ethanol) as severe damage will occur. The minimum of 87 octane is recommended for most engines.
This is direct out of the seadoo manual!

Karl

 

[Vicious]

2 Beeps

Ok, I did get the 2 beeps the first time I put the landyard on. I pulled one plug at a time and grounded the plug and there is a nice blue spark on both plugs. I took it one step further and tried the WD-40 thing. I did not even get a backfire.

The tube I talked about last post that is comming from the engine crankcase that is full to about halfway up the gas tank leads to the oil sensor and check valve. Could there be an air lock here?

 

[Vicious]

Oil

Not a problem I will siphon it out tomorrow afternoon. Is there any particular brand of 2 stroke oil I should look for that has the API rating? If it is needed I do not have a problem spending the extra money on it.

To answer your question about if I just got this ski, the answer is yes. The former owner died and I bought it in unknown condition. I was told however that it ran sometime last year.

Thanks for the help thus far!

 

[kustomkarl]

OOPS! I read too many posts. I remember you said that in your first post...
I prefer to use Seadoo XP-S Synthetic oil. It is recommended for the seadoo by seadoo and about the best around. Some members say they want to save a couple bucks, or they live too far from a seadoo dealer. For a couple bucks more per gallon. I use the correct oil. You can use synthetic or synthetic blend.
The line you are talking about is about 3/8" in diameter going to the crankcase is the hose for the Rotary Valve Gear Shaft I was telling you about. It will have a little air in it as it is just a sump oil line and it uses very little oil to keep the shaft lubed. The injector lines go to the oil pump and shouldn't have any air bubbles in them. If you need any more help, give us a shout.

Karl

 

[Vicious]

What has been done: Still No JOY!

Ok, I have been busy.

1. Drained all gas and oil.
2. Replaced the fuel and oil filter.
3. Put in 5 gal of gas and 1 gal of XP-S oil in their respective containers.
4. New plugs gaped per spec.
5. Rebuilt single BN-40I carb and found the fuel filter gunked up with a black tar like substance. This was replaced with the carb kit.
6. Rebuild the accelerator pump to function (was frozen)
7. Battery has been fully charged (New Battery)
8. Spark plug(s) have blue spark
9. Motor turns over but no Joy. I have tried WD-40 and even Carb Cleaner but I do not even get a sputter.
10. When the DESS is installed I get the two beeps. The red oil light comes on and goes out. The gas gauge does not move, should this move at this time?

Does the air intake have to be on in order for it to start? I have had two-stroke motor-cycles and it did not matter if a filter was attached.

Anyone have a next guess? I will check compression next and post the numbers.

Vic

 

[Vicious]

Compression check

Ok, I bought me a Universal Compression Gauge Set with quick coupler from the Harbor Freight Tools and I get the following readings:

Front cylinder: 31 PSI
Rear cylinder: 52 PSI

I think I have isolated the problem...but now what is the easiest fix? Is it possible to remove the head and replace the piston rings? Or do I need to take the head to a machine shop and go to the next size up in bore?

Vic

 

[derek]

pull the head off. the tops of the pistons and condition of bores will tell you. 99 percent chance they will tell you you need pistons and a rebore or new (better used) cylinders. that ain't much compression. tops of your pistons are gonna be so bad some of the top rings will be burned away. you will need a head too-probably. the chunks flying around have torn up the domes. good luck.

 

[Vicious]

Compression Check Update

After soaking the pistons with XP-S after my first compression test I just re-checked them and gain some compression as follows:

Front: 59 psi
Rear: 58 psi

I added more XP-S and will recheck in the morning. I am also searching for a new piston sleeves and piston ring set. Any ideas on a good source?

Would it be wise to get the .50 over kit or start with the OEM base?

Vic

 

[Vicious]

Heads removed...

Thanks Derek,

I did just that, I pulled the heads and found pitted pistons and pitted heads. I also found that the ski had been subject to salt water. Some of the salt was like a jell.

What should be the next step?
Where can I get a new head?
Should I order a new rebuilt motor or rebuild the top and bottom?
Any ideas on how to remove the salt and clean it up? The cap over the head seems to be showing signs of rust and the piston water cooler area is caked with salt as well.

Vic

 

[derek]

the salt will clean out. what you don't get will flush out with time. heads and cylinders are available on ebay. probably be best to take your jugs and get them rebored. usually about 30 to 40 each. sleeves are expensive and still hafta be pressed into the jugs. probably about 30 to 40 each. piston and ring sets are about 130 to 160 for WSM pistons. 200 or so for Wiseco pistons. wiseco's are the good stuff. rebuilt engines are $650 to $1000. if you are going rebuilt engine SBT might be best bet. their warranty is the best. 2 tears for the $1000 engine, 1 year for the $750. only diff in price is the extra year they cover it. so, you decide whether to spend $300 on the top end ot 2-3 times that much for a motor that has new crank bearings in it and all. i have heard people put down SBT's engines. the only guy i know that deals with them has never had one go bad. you wanna go cheap, get used pistons and rings, hone your bores and put them in. heads are about 30 to 50 on ebay also. good luck.

 

[Vicious]

Next Step...

I have ordered a head from www.dougrussell.com; I went with a new OEM to insure that it will hold up.

I have found www.fairchildperformance.com and the offer a Top End Rebuild Kit for $295 w/$20 shipping ($315 total). I have to send them my heads and they will boar and hone the pistons to the next size needed. The kit comes with the gaskets and new bearings and pistons (everything that is needed new for the top end). I can upgrade to the pistons you mentioned as an option and can go past the 1.0 bore limit if needed. Is it worth the additional funds?

Vic

 

[derek]

anything under an extra $100 i would go with the wiseco's. you are doing this install yourself? watch those piston pin circlips. they really like to fly. safety glasses are a must. you probly won't need over 1.0 mm bore. they are also gonna get the nastiness out of the cooling passages.you are replacing the head. that leaves the exhaust. you wanna flush that out. (where the water hoses go.) then let is soak overnight with fresh water and flush again. make sure exhaust is good and empty of water before re-installing.

 

[Vicious]

Pulled the heads...

I have pulled the heads and wouldn't you know all the bolts from the exhaust manifold come out easily except the top front bolt on the exhaust manifold seared off just below the chamfer spot on the bolt so that 2 inches or so is protruding out.

I can not seem to get this bolt to budge even with vise grips. I sprayed it with penetrating oil and left it for overnight. Any ideas or should I have the machine shop get it out when I send the heads in?

Vic

 

[kustomkarl]

Vic, I have good luck using PB Blaster. Spray it and let it set. Its the best thing I have found on the market, for removing bolts. Then I tap it and use a little heat and it usually turns out. Just be patient with it.

Karl

 

[Vicious]

Gray to Black...

While I am waiting for my cylinder heads to come back I have acquired black fuel line and will replace all the gray fuel lines to stop the internal carburetor filter from gumming up.

Is there anything else I can do while I wait for the heads to come back?


Vic

 

[derek]

do you have the pistons off the rods yet? take the circlips out and practice putting them in. very small needlenose pliers SOMETIMES work. it is a touch you need to develop. remember what i said earler about safety glasses. these buggers will go into orbit, unless your face stops liftoff. the upper rod bearings are caged, not loose so that is one less trade to learn. installing loose bearings on old 580's is fun. get the piston pins freed up and out.

 

[Vicious]

Clear Fuel Line???

Do they make a clear fuel line? This would be a good thing so you could see if the carb is sucking gas. Has anyone placed a fuel filter in line close to the carb? Is this recommended or discouraged?

Vic

 

[kustomkarl]

yes, you can do the clear fuel line, and an in line fuel filter.

Karl

 

[Vicious]

Clear Fuel line

I have been to my local auto houses (AutoZone, Advanced Auto, O'Reilly Auto Parts) and none of them seem to carry the clear fuel line. I went to my local True Value Hardware store and got my eyes gouged out when I found 1/4 inch for 3.99 per foot.

Anyone have a suggestion on when I could get clear fuel line to replace the grey lines I have...

If I can't find clear should I do the readily available black line and add a fuel filter close to the carb?

Vic


PS... Still awaiting the return of my cylinders from Fairchild.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

What is so bad about black fuel lines? They have been around for ever and you rearly ever here of problems with them. :cheers:

 

[Vicious]

Black Fuel Lines..

Nothing is wrong with them... just think it might be easier to see the fuel flow it they were clear.

Vic

 

[seadoosnipe]

?.........

I don't see a reason to have "expensive" clear fuel line. If you just want to have a visual, then put the filter in like you say you want, then buy about 1/4 foot of that expensive stuff, then, splice into the black lines near the carbs so you can get your visual.