1996 XP Lacks power

[Deco]

Helo Everyone! I just purchased a 96 XP yesterday. Prior to the purchase, I ran the 787 for several hours and had a blast. Later that day I purchased the 96 XP and brought the bad boy home. I was told by the owner that the machine had been sitting in a garage for a year and occasionaly started throughout the year.

I was talking with my father who suggested pumping out the old fuel, and running sea foam and STP additive through the fuel system to clean out the deposits. Somewhat hesitent, I followed the advice any way. I also bought synthetic marine 2 cycle oil available at auto zone(It was Sunday, and the sea doo parts store was closed.)I will purchase the expensive sea doo stuff this weekend and remove the cheap autozone oil.

I took the ski out the next day and it would not run at the higher speeds. It would idle fine and run fine up to 35. I could rock the throttle and occasionaly sqeeze out 40MPH.

I know for a fact the ski was running fabulous before adding the fuel detergent/cleaner and the second grade synthetic oil. The prior day ,It was screaming at 55-60 MPH and I had the time of my life!

I am fairly mechanicle, however I am only a parts changer. This is my first SeaDoo. I hear troubleshooting and repairing 2 cycle engines is an art form in its own right.

Did pumping the fuel out cause any damage from the pressure of the siphon pump? I used a standard siphon pump with hoses. What about mixing the additive? Its only an 8 gal tank. Any change in the chemistry of the fuel should have a huge affect correct? The spark plugs look a little too rich also.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I will change the fuel,oil this weekend and report back with my findings. I should probably either change or replace the fuel filter. What are your thoughts on this? What should the filter be cleaned with.

 

[nswillin]

Deco, Welcome to the forum. Running an additive through the gas is not a good idea. It's a two stroke, so remember, anything you put in the gas is going to mix with your oil and enter your engine the same way.

I'm a little concerned with the oil you bought from Auto Zone. You cant just put any 2 stroke marine grade oil into a Rotax engine. They must meet certain requirements. Different brands of oil should never be mixed as well.

Oil does not have to be Seadoo brand but must meet these requirements:

High quality low ash API TC injection oil for 2-stroke engines can be
used if BOMBARDIER-ROTAX injection oil is not available.
CAUTION: Never use 4-stroke petroleum or synthetic motor oil and never
mix these with outboard motor oil.
Do not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or
other ashless type 2-stroke oil.
Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction may
cause severe engine damage.


Get all that oil out and get the right oil, purge the system of air and you should be fine. Do a compression test to make sure engine damage has not already occured. Clean the filters inside the carbs as well, be careful to not tear the diaphragms in the carbs or you will have to rebuild. :cheers:

 

[Deco]

Thank you very much! I look forward to learing everything about my Sea Doo here.

I need to purchase a flush kit, manual, and pre mix Kit. I will make all future purchases through the site and will become a paid memeber. I truly appreciate the prompt response. I will post the results Sunday. Sorry for the newbie question.

regards

Jason

 

[nswillin]

No problem man. If your going to go premix, the easiest way to do so the rotary still gets lubed would be to take the oil pump off, remove the oil pump shaft, put oil pump back on and leave the hose coming out of the tank still hooked up. Leave a little oil in the tank so the rotary still gets some, it will not use much.

Premix the gas at 40:1 :cheers:

 

[seadoosnipe]

If I could just add a little here....

I'd just like to add, ............remember, when you go premix, your going to use three times the oil you actually need to run the ski. So, I hope you got a deep pocket because the 2 stroke oil is not cheap........:cheers:

 

[Deco]

I have heard alot of peaople blowing engines because of the oil pump. Would you change to pre mix?


What is everyones opinion on the matter?

 

[timmyboy76]

I have heard alot of peaople blowing engines because of the oil pump. Would you change to pre mix?


What is everyones opinion on the matter?

ALWAYS been a fan of premix, til I decided to leave the injection system on last boat. Man, did I piss away money, the last 10yrs...the resivoir bottle moved maybe a c**t-hair, and that was about 20-30 gals of gas....If injection system work'n, I'd leave it hooked up.

 

[fireball451]

I would rather spend more in oil and spark plugs than have to buy a new motor. Especially after having to buy a 951 motor last year!

 

[Stunnerable]

The factory oil injection on Sea-Doos are really good. I've run mildly modded 787s using the factory oil injection.. no problems for.. well forever. It's good to check them every once in a while for peace of mind.. but, they should run and run. Many of the horror stories are from years ago that linger.. kind of like BMW's are unreliable. People have a hard time moving on.

 

[Deco]

Hello, Well I am reporting on the previous thread I started.

I pumped the old fuel and oil out of the tanks and supplied fresh sea doo 2 cylc oil and gas. I removed the fuel filter and was surprised to see blue plastic debris of some sort clogging the filter. I cleaned the filter, allowed time for it to dry properly and went for a test run.

After starting the PWC and allowing time for the engine to warm up, I laid down on the throttle and was able to top out at 50MPH. After several minutes the ski completely died.

I put the key back on the post to restart and the sea doo produced one long beep. It seems the battery was dead.
I purchased a new battery, replaced a bad ground cable that originates from a electricle box next to the battery, and placed an ohm meter on the battery to verify the seadoo was receiving enough voltage to be recharged correctly.

At Idle, the meter displayed 12.5-13V and when the throttle was opened the meter would jump to 14.5 V. I put the PWC back in the water and verified the battery problem was solved. Took a few more readings and the voltage looked good. Yaaay!:hurray:

While I was testing the battery , I noticed the ski was bogging down pretty bad. I rocked the throttle back and forth and the PWC would occasionaly kick in and run good for 5 mins..then bog down again. I am guessing this is a fuel delivery problem?? I was only on the water for 30minutes.
Once I had the ski back on land, I noticed the tank selector switch was on RES( we had kids over, and I am sure they played with the selector switch.)

Could this cause the ski to bog down? I have ordered and received the carb rebuid kit, and plan on replacing the fuel lines and cleaning the RES/Tank selector switch this weekend.

I did perform a compression test and cylinder one was reading 158PSI and cylinder two was at 170PSI. I will perform this test again and report back.........Is this bad??
What is a healthy reading? I did spray synthetic lube in the cylinders before taking the reading.

I am hoping this is a fuel system problem! Otherwise, I am ordering a rebuit engine to replace, and I will rebuild the original engine for fun.

Can anyone advise were to purchase a quality rebuilt engine that may have a warranty?

I have to say, even with the dissapointments, it has been fun tinkering. Although a good running engine will provide better enjoyment:ack:

 

[timmyboy76]

you know...

think you already found the culprit..:hurray: When you get the carb kit, and tear into them, you'll probably find the same crap that was in the inline filter, clogging up the "internal" filters of the carbs. As for compression reading, for the 787, believe a good sound motor in 150lb-160lb range..
SBT has been the place, for reman w/ untouchable warranty. Either a 1yr or 2yr "NO FAULT", who can beat tthat...good luck

 

[Stunnerable]

Trim back all the contacts for your ground wires. Pull the wires out of the spark boot and trim it back.. do the same for the contact on the engine and battery. Sometimes this can cause a ski to bog a lot. Def rebuild the carbs though.. and make sure you get rid of those old grey fuel lines if it still has those.

 

[Deco]

Well, the carbs are rebuilt and I am changing all of the fuel lines now.
I was concerened a little with the original pop off pressure. The mag had a pop off pressure of 40PSI and the rebuilt mag has a new pop off pressure of 28-30PSI. The PTO carb has a new pop off pressure of 30PSI. Will this cause a problem?

I have not started the PWC yet to evaluate performance. The carbs are installed already.The High pressure screw is set at 0.what should the low pressure adjustment screw be at for the PTO and MAG?

I will report back with the end results.

So far it has been a fun! I have complete pictures of the rebuild I will post when completed.

 

[timmyboy76]

yeah, ur yr/mdl call out for the pop-off between 23-43psi. For the settings..lsa=1, hsa=0...:cheers:

 

[Royce]

Jump In ???

wanna see if I can jump in?? Deco asked about what oil to use and about premix.... I want to know and maybe he does too if you are running premix with block off plate (mine was when I got it) what oil should you use then to premix?? FYI Deco if you block off you MUST keep reservoir for gravity feed to crankcase on your motor.. I have reed valve setup on mine and tank and all is removed :cheers:

Congrats Timmy itsa your 2000th post.... yayer!!!!:hurray:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oil...?

You still must use the non NMMA, non TCW-3 ....low ash oil. I use QuickSilver "Full Synthetic" in my 787. I've been using it a couple years now. I buy it by the gallon at Wally World. I had to look for another solution since the nearest Seadoo store is an hour and a half away.

The manual says if you can't use XP-S, then use the equivalent. The Quicksilver oil fits the requirements...........:cheers:

Oh, and timmyboy?......yeah, I see he's made it over 2000. We keep changing his password to keep him out but he keeps finding his way back in.:rofl:...j/k...congrats on the 2k milestone. :hurray::cheers:

 

[Royce]

How?

Deco not tryin to "jack your thread" But how in the hell can a TCW3 oil say its full synthetic low ash and say recommend for Seadoo among others pwc brands and have the seadoo symbol with little r trademark next to it on the front.. I say this because I bought this oil before getting on here and reading more threads and the sticker under my hood saying don't use tcw3 oil was cover by the clamp for my after market race bars!! I am really ticked off that this oil can claim to be recommended for seadoo pwc but yet cause harm to my motor!!!!!:rant:

 

[Deco]

Thread officially hi jacked:cheers:
TERRORIST!!!!:ack:

 

[Deco]

I am jacking the thread back
Well last night after my daughters softball game at 7:30PM, I had a chance to start the pwc after all of the work invested in changing the carbs and fuel lines. The seadoo fired right up , but died after I let my hand off the throttle. I have not adjusted the carbs back to factory settings yet. I plan on doing this today right after work. Since it was late last night and the seadoo is loud out of the water. I was only able to start the ski for about 20 seconds.Is there a factory setting on the idle screw? I have the information on the low speed screws posted by other members.

How do I check the RPMS? Is there a guage for this to verify proper Idle RPMs?

I hear other member are able to verify the RPMS at idle.

The throttle was very responsive, it shot fuel into the engine very quickly!:hurray:

 

[Deco]

Well, after several fustrating days of playing with the carb settings, I think I have it.

one problem still lurks....

When I am in full throttle (45 MPH) for more than a 2 minutes the pwc will bog down and kill the ski. I usually feel the ski starting to bog and I release the throttle, start to rock the throttle... which solves the problem.What is this mixture condition?


If the PWC dies and I try to restart immediately, it still is bogged. It takes a few attempts and then fires up.

If I restart immediately and pull the choke, it fires right up.
Should I adjust the HS screws for this? The protective caps are on. Which way should I turn the screw? Standing facing the carbs?

Also, the seadoo has the original engine 96 XP ....should I be able to get more from this engine than 45MPH tops?

 

[timmyboy76]

deco, did you do plug read'n. Goin over the old post, and seems your pop-off psi is lower than before the rebuild. Not say'n its the culprit, but if its dump'n more fuel than it burns, could be it. You still have the original spring, if not, what colorspring you installed. Also, does it intermitted bog, or just bogg out. Possible, you have rectifier gin south, so, you can disconnect the wires to it, and give lake another go, if that solves it, replace the rectifier...
btw...yah, should see mid 50's w/ that ski

 

[Deco]

Thank you so much for your response.

One cylinder seemed to be fouled out. I changed the plug and adjusted the low speed screw.

I have not solved the problem as I have originally thought.

The ski ran fine the day before yesterday, I never touched the carb settings and the ski bogged down again.

I am hanging in there on the brink of fustration, but will not give up. The compression readings are right on at 150PSI for cylinder 1/ 155PSI for cylinder 2

When the ski is bogging down, it sounds like bad da da da da da da da da will not do above 15mph, and shakes.

If you let the ski sit....it will jump on the whole shot and bogg right down after you reach 15MPH.

Then I can turn the carb settings, it will run great for a few minutes, and then bogg down again.



I will start working may way through the ski's manual( trouble shooting section) one step at a time.


I did not replace the needle and seat.I just replaced the O ring.
My pop off value was lower than the original rebuild.

both carbs have a pop off value of exactly 30PSI.....I went through the carbs again and changed this value. I check the spring control arm.exactly flush with body as required.

I am buying new springs and needle and seat.
Hopefully to get the popoff value back to original stock 45PSI.


I am completely stumped so far...
I actually called Barneys in Tampa, and they refused to work on a 10year old ski. I was permitted to bring it in by appointment so they can evalute the condition. Barneys would then decide if they wanted to do the work.
How nice of them. :rant:

 

[Stunnerable]

Have you tried riding with the seat off. There could be an exhaust leak.

 

[Deco]

Not yet

What are the symptoms of an exhaust leak?

How is this tested?

I will check the manual as well.

Thanks

 

[Stunnerable]

It's usually first noticed by how the ski will start and run fine but shortly after bog like crazy and die. After it sits, the same will repeat. The engine compartment fills with fumes and it chokes the engine. By running with the seat off it will run longer. Look around the gaskets and bolts for a leak when its running. Usually the exhaust manifold is the culprit.