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1996 XP failing...help

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ok....believe me we are not trying to be a broken record here and i know this is frustrating...i spent 3 weeks this year trying to get my ski to run right...i know how you feel but you have done alot of stuff to it already so its hard to fig this out......if possible please get another compression reading and do it in this order.
1) run the engine till its warm
2) screw in guage
3) hold the throttle WIDE OPEN
4) crank till needle stops
 
OK guys, here's an update:

I checked compression again with a different gauge and came with 155 in each cyclinder. I also replaced the spark plugs and I took a picture after 20 minutes of WOT. The ski still only goes 40mph.20120728_210149.jpg

Once again the ski does not idle after WOT either...it stalls out
 
I am not an expert on these engines, but if I am seeing the plugs right it appears that they are running lean. Did you do a plug chop?
The cereamic on those plugs shoud be brown. If they are white, as it appears, I would not run that motor unitll I figure out what is happening. Did you rebuild the carbs? I may be asking some redundant questions but these are important points.
 
I think you have a fuel delivery issue. From what I can see, I like the looks of the old plugs better that I do the new ones. The electrodes on the old plugs appear to be brown and that is what you want. I can't see the pictures real well because I just had laser surgery on both eyes but I think I can see them well enough. Did you have the tools to set the pop off pressure on your carbs? Did you use genuine OEM replacement parts?
 
Well Mr.Erick, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that all else being OK, those carbs are going to have to come off and be double checked. If the eolectrodes on the plugs are white after you do a plug chop, assuming that you did the chop properly, then the engine is running lean. If you run it lean long enough if will eat itself. IMHO you should take those carbs off and send them to Dr. Honda to let him have a look. At least you will know that they are rebuilt properly, not saying that you did not do it right but as you are well aware there is something that is not adding up.
 
what would I check for again? I have checked both jets, those are clear. No seals needed replacing as they showed no signs of wear. I replaced the diaphrams and internal filters. I unscrewed both high speed and low speed adjusters to check the needles and they seemed clear. The springs seemed fine, no signs of wear. I do have the same size/color replacement springs, and without a pop-off tester I am reluctant to change those springs, but I did change them and no difference, so I put the old ones back in. I do believe as well that there is a fuel issue, but with everything I've replaced I'm lost. I don't know what else to do.
 
I will help you all I can so here is my next recommendation. Send a PM to Dr. Honda and ask him if he would please review this thread and render his opinion. It is time to call out the big gun. Again assuming that everything else is working properly, and I am reading the plugs properly then the next step is the carbs.
 
Find a thread where Doc has posted something. Left click on his name and you will see a drop down box. Select PM and it will take you to a page where you can send him a message. If you want to try it out send me one now. Just click on my name, select PM, then send me a test message and I will respond. Let me know if you are going to do it and I will wait up for it. If you want to include your phone number in the PM, I will call you and discuss this issue with you.
 
You can just go to the main page, at the bottom of the page look for Dr Honda, click on his name it will take you to his personal page.

I've been at the lake and working on my own ski's but I did read over this thread. I have a question, did you check the pop-off? How much was it? I don't have the specs. in front of me but I think it should be somewhere in the low 20's.

Another question, what's a plug chop? Maybe I've been living in a cave but I've never heard the term.

And finally, I believe now you say that you have a compression of 155, while it's still a little on the high side 155 is perfectly acceptable. Which means the jetting in the carbs. should be O.K.

Personally if it were me, I would contact Dr Honda and ask if he can look at your carbs., send them to him and have them done right, it will be the best money you can spend.

Lou
 
A plug chop is where you hold the throttle wide open, and hit the kill switch. That way, the engine doesn't return to idle, and mess up the color for the plug reading.


I'm with the other guys on a fuel issue.

1) If you ran 20 minutes on the white plugs... then you are TOO lean. Those plugs will start to show color after a very short time.

2) I know you didn't change the springs... but since you bought it as a project, you can't assume they were right to begin with. Pop-off is critical, and you have to check it. Also... with out a pop-off tool... how did you verify that the needle and seat weren't leaking?? I did a set of carbs last week, where everything looked great... but I could hear a hiss with only 10 PSI on the needle.

With carbs... you can't guess about anything.


But... since we are here... did you check the rotary valve clearance? A high clearance valve will show up as a hard re-start when warm... and low power. Also... is it timed right?

How are the RAVE valves? They won't cause hard starting... but they will drop your top speed if they are stuck.


Basically... double check everything... and don't assume anything.
 
Dr Honda said:
A plug chop is where you hold the throttle wide open, and hit the kill switch. That way, the engine doesn't return to idle, and mess up the color for the plug reading.


I'm with the other guys on a fuel issue.

1) If you ran 20 minutes on the white plugs... then you are TOO lean. Those plugs will start to show color after a very short time.

2) I know you didn't change the springs... but since you bought it as a project, you can't assume they were right to begin with. Pop-off is critical, and you have to check it. Also... with out a pop-off tool... how did you verify that the needle and seat weren't leaking?? I did a set of carbs last week, where everything looked great... but I could hear a hiss with only 10 PSI on the needle.

With carbs... you can't guess about anything.


But... since we are here... did you check the rotary valve clearance? A high clearance valve will show up as a hard re-start when warm... and low power. Also... is it timed right?

How are the RAVE valves? They won't cause hard starting... but they will drop your top speed if they are stuck.


Basically... double check everything... and don't assume anything.
Click to expand...

The GURU has spoken. Best take his advice.:thumbsup:
 
As far as the rave valves go, that was one of the first overhauls I did when I bought the ski. When I first cleaned them I couldn't even pull the #1 valve off it was so gunked up with carbon. I had to take a VERY light sandpaper grit (I think 600) and basically clean the stuffing out of them. I dropped them back in and they were easy to slide in and out. They are both currently set to the red dial flush with the top (as per other threads on this forum).

You are right that I have no verified pop-off pressure, but I have looked online and since I don't have the tool, new ones start at around $300 and I don't want to invest that kind of money into that. I know it might be the culprit, but I'll use it once and that might not even be the problem. Does anyone know how to jimmy-rig one?
 
erickolmstead said:
As far as the rave valves go, that was one of the first overhauls I did when I bought the ski. When I first cleaned them I couldn't even pull the #1 valve off it was so gunked up with carbon. I had to take a VERY light sandpaper grit (I think 600) and basically clean the stuffing out of them. I dropped them back in and they were easy to slide in and out. They are both currently set to the red dial flush with the top (as per other threads on this forum).

You are right that I have no verified pop-off pressure, but I have looked online and since I don't have the tool, new ones start at around $300 and I don't want to invest that kind of money into that. I know it might be the culprit, but I'll use it once and that might not even be the problem. Does anyone know how to jimmy-rig one?
Click to expand...

This will be my last post today. SEND THE CARBS TO DR. HONDA!!!!!!! He will charge you 65.00 labor and only charge you for the parts needed. You will have to pay shipping both ways. It will be the best money you have spent.

Good Night and Good Luck.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK guys here's an update:

I found a website that showed me how to make my own pop-off tester. It was fairly simple and only required around $20. So here's what I found: the needle never popped off, it just made a terrible hissing sound all around the needle even though the needle was able to move freely. I cranked it all the way up to 60psi and it still never popped. I assume the needle is bad so I ordered two new ones. I don't know if the needle and seat would directly affect the top speed as i read a forum where the needle only affects mid-range speed. Is this true or was i reading the post wrong?
 
Another update:

I ordered new needles and seats and I was able to get a pop-off of 24psi. I installed the carbs back on the ski and it seemed to run smoother and does not stall, but it's not any faster; it still doesn't go above 40mph. What do you guys think about a wear seal? Could this be my reason? I hate to keep tearing things apart, spending money and not get a postive result.
 
what do you mean wear seal???? are you talking about the wear ring? If so ...no not really the wear ring has the most affect at take off...if the wear ring was bad when you mash the throttle the ski would rev up real high and you would feel like you are not going anywhere.....then it would grab and go.........when you are at WOT and you say you are only hitting 40mph ...what RPM'S would you say you are running...i know you dont have a guage but a guess is ok....does the ski feel like it is lagging....also since you replaced the needles have you done a plug chop
 
....also since you replaced the needles have you done a plug chop

We're having plug chops tonight, I like em on the grill with sweet baby ray's bbq sauce.

Kudos

Lou
 
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