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'07 challenger No Thrust - AGAIN

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makingthepush

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Need some help here. Boat has 40 hours. I have never been able to get it over 38 mph (GPS verified). Bought it brand new last year. Complained to dealer and was told that that was normal? I grounded it (stupid) and killed the motor and brought it to the dealer for service. They said I screwed the wear ring and impeller. Both were replaced, and I had them winterize boat.

I took the darn thing out this past weekend and went about 15 minutes at 35 mph. Went to idle speed on purpose (inside marina) and when I was leaving no wake zone, I pushed the throttle to WOT and got... NOTHING. I have not pushed the boat ever. Not that i dont want to, I'm just trying to get comfy with it first ;-)

Notable vibration from stern area (in front of rear seat) and very disorganized looking discharge from jet - not very forceful. I checked the intake grate (COLD WATER) and nothing. The boat was never in less than 11 feet of water. I had to limp home at slack throttle in forward gear at 1 mph to get back home. If i tried to increase rpm's, I got smoke from the rear of the boat coming up from churning water (white). Got scared and decided slow was better than blown.

I'm totally befuddled. I thought that for sure someone else would have this type of issue, but I have not found anyone else complaining of this one yet. I have not replaced the supercharger bearings yet. Is there any chance this is the issue? It just seems like the boat is cavitating at the point where the shaft enters the box in the hull.

It is currently back at the same dealer, but I have no confidence now. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance and I hope to see some of you on the water.......SOMEDAY!
 
7000 or so. Once I heard the cavitation sound, i was too reluctant to really push it. i couldnt help but think it sounded "starved". I jumped in and checked to make sure we didnt get a plastic bag stuck against the intake, but no.
 
A small stick got caught in your impeller. That's all it takes to make it cavitate, vibrate and produce no thrust. Look very closely at the impeller from the intake side. Or even pull the pump right out to look at it.

Chester
 
Chester,

Thank you for the info. I did check the intake and discharge sides, although it was only from outside the grate. Nothing was visible. I decided to take the thing in to a dealer so I didnt miss the whole season. That is probably going to be an expensive mistake....

I understand that it only takes a very small occurrence to damage the wear ring and impeller. Would this small stick create such an occurrence? If so, I'm pretty sure I have a horrible decision on this boat. If I have to have 2 rebuils in 40 hours and pay to have my supercharger get the new washers it needed to begin with but seadoo wouldnt take care of it under warranty, then my satisfaction level is a 0.

I bought a new boat with a reputable name so I could finally spend my free time on the water, not wishing i was on the water. Not unloading on you, just trying to figure out why folks would ever subject themselves to such a fragile and unreliable system? Is there a fix that will improve the reliability - maybe a redesigned intake grate that allows enough water but less debris?

I cant help but think there is still something else wrong with the boat. I weigh 175 and keep 80% fuel in it (or try to). Alone I have never been able to get over 37-38 mph. The boat is just not as fast as it should be according to seadoo, and all the dealerships (2 of them) keep telling me is that I should have bought the Yamaha???? Not really what I wanted to hear if you know what I mean.

Is it possible I have a lemon? I was sure the net would be loaded with dissatisfied owners, but as of yet, they are not there. ALL help is truly appreciated. I would really love to go boating and enjoy the decision I made.

Thanks
 
7000rpms seem low to me for a sc model can some others chim in with sc 180's and list your rpms at WOT.

1) you need to check your wear ring and impeller for any kind of wear or damage.
2) Is there any water in the bottom of your boat after driving around for a while and how much if there is. If you do have excess water in the bilge then you could have a bad carbon seal.
 
Hate to get obnoxious, but if I bought a new boat and opened it up and never got over 35 mph, I would take it back and demand it to be fixed. If they didn't give it back to me fixed, or clearly show me how I screwed it up, I would be looking at some lemon law or legal recourse to get my money back or a new boat.

Sorry. It just ticks me off to see dealers get away with stuff like this.

And YES...I HAVE had it happen to me in the past....:rant:
 
You really need to have the servicing dealer make your jet boat right! It shouldn't act like that at all. That boat is capable of speeds of upper 50+mph, with enough thrust to set you back in the seat. Have the servicing dealer that replaced the wear ring take it for a test drive, if they say they can't help out.

Karl
 
makingthepush said:
...I understand that it only takes a very small occurrence to damage the wear ring and impeller. Would this small stick create such an occurrence?...
Click to expand...

A small stick may not damage the impeller or wear ring but if it is stuck on the impeller, it will cause cavitation & you will lose all thrust. plus it will vibrate badly.

Chester
 
Thanks to everyone for the info. I feel the same about the dealers, but they have both left me with the same idea - that Seadoo was the wrong way to go here.

Karl - are you telling me that a stock 180 se will go 50+? Everything I've read has the boat in the high 40's, but anytime anyone starts talking 50 +, people seem to balk about it.

I still have not heard from the servicing dealer, but I will definitely demand a test ride before accepting it. Can anyone tell me for sure what type of speeds and rpm I should be able to demand from the dealer before accepting it back? I'm sure there will be at least 2 of us in it at the test ride.

thanks
 
Oh, and no there is no water in the bottom of the boat. Still dry. At least I have that going for me! Out of curiosity, how much water would be present if the carbon ring was bad?
 
i have an 06, 180 SE, it doesn't matter if the water is 12 inches or 12 feet, you can still run over some floating debris. I sucked a small piece of wood past the intake grate. The impeller ground up most of it, but a small knot was wedged in the intake, because the impeller had carved a groove part way through the wood, it would not clear. The boat matched your symptoms exactly....vibration no thrust.
I got the boat on the trailer, but still could not see any obstruction, I was able to get my arm far enough inside and felt the small piece of wood a little prying with a screw driver and it unscrewed itself from the impeller fin, and in less than 3 minutes, the boat was good as new. I could not believe how one tiny piece of wood could rob the boat of almost all it's thrust and cause it to shake like it did. I hope if yours was this type of easy fix that the dealer wouldn't try to take you to the cleaners?
I do not have GPS but my speedo speeds show 48-50
 
My boat stock would go 40 to 42 with 2 adults and 2 children 7 and 13 and a full tank of gas.. About 7500 rpm's. Now with the work that I had done it has ran 47 mph a solid 45 same configuration ... It has been 50.1 on gps single rider after mods were done @ 7850 rpm's. Now it is in for this years mods I would like to see 50's same configuration but I think I am going to have to buy a external Intercooler... and it should be 7950-8150 rpm's
 
Thank you to everyone who has provided the input on this issue. I do have an update for all of you....

I did end taking the boat to the dealer to be worked on, again. When they called they told me there was nothing wrong with the boat. Of course they did charge me $200 to put the thing on a computer to "check" it. They could'nt get any error codes, so they put a wrench on the supercharger bolt? and ran it to make sure it engaged properly? They say everything ran fine in the shop so out to the water they went. No issues at all.

Dealer ep told me that high 30's / low 40's was the right speed...AGAIN. I showed him 7 magazine articles all ofwhich had the boat at 47+. I cant find anywhere that Seadoo has the proper speed located in their literature. I was told that I should take the boat and come back if I had more problems. Talk about upset.

I took it to the lake immediately I was so mad. And guess what...it ran 49 on 3/4 tank w/ just me in it. I verified it on my GPS. 8100 RPMs. No problems. 2.5 hrs of pure fun. This is what I thought I was buying. I am so happy now. The difference? 0-30 in like 3 seconds. WOW! And now I can hear the supercharger for the first time. Could this have been the problem all along and by doing the load test it just freed something up?

Thanks again.
 
So the supercharger wasn't spinning? That could do it.

I don't know what the supercharger looks like on these things, but when you say he put a wrench on the bolt, it must of freed it up and got it spinning.

Great to hear it is working like it is supposed to now:hurray:
 
The other guys can say for sure but aren't these SC gear driven? How could putting a wrench on it free it up? I would if you haven't already document this. As the dealer for the work orders and a list of what they did. I would alos call BRP to have a services ticket wrote up on it. If it happens again you have proof. I would have never paid to have this issue resovled. Who is the Dealer? I would mention to BRP that they the dealer suggested another Brand. Did you buy it from this dealer?
I agree with Chester I have had the same thing a small piece of wood get stuck on the impeller got it on the trailer and had to get the tire iron out and carefully dislodge it. But wow It wouldn't go over idle without vibrating like crazy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just hooked my brother up to this site, and he says he thinks his 'charger is doing the same thing.

Is this a common issue for these boats?
 
bad SC

have the 2008 challenger 180 have never seen 30mph, this is due in part to the break-in limit of 6000 rpm, as I only have 6 hours on the boat. Sadly, 4000 rpm produces about 21 mph. Please folks, say it ain't so! Did I buy a really noisy barge, or a sportboat?

ps. I know this is off subject, but I hear that these wear rings are fragile, why not buy a stainless one and be done with it?

...maybe I could get an impeller bent up to 35 degrees and drop in an old evinrude V6? Better yet, I could gusset up a tubular mount, and put a 200 outboard on the swim step, a 17 footer with a 200, that will go over 40!
 
OK - dont get too worried yet - man do I know how you feel! My boat is doing great now, and I'm no mechanic, but I do have this advice.....

Get the thing on the trailer and make sure you dont have something in/on the impeller. Check both sides. A good flashlight and some blind reaching will be all that is neccesary to confirm or deny that problem.

If you did not ground your boat or suck a sandbar through it, then the wear ring is most probably not the issue. That is the first thing I kept thinking because all I got was disorganized thrust at the discharge (stern). Read all the posts in this string. There are a whole lot of really smart people on here - THANKS GUYS!!!!

If everything else they ask about and discuss here is OK, then have a Seadoo technician check your supercharger. Mine was unplugged (wiring harness?) and the motor was checked at the shop. The tech then performed a "load test" on the supercharger - he said this is accomplished by placing a socket on a drive bolt and then performing the test. Not sure how to do it or if its even real - Can someone help out on this one please????????? Afterward, mine is running high 40's every time with no problems. It will push you back in the seat and its FUN!!!! The trick with mine was hearing the SC while running. I had never heard it before, but once it was running correctly, BINGO - !!!!! there it was.

I hope this helps. As I said, I'm no mechanic and I hope some of the experienced techs on here will chime in and put their 2 cents on this. If it really is the SC, then I'm sure mine's not the only one with the issues. In fact, just from this forum you may be #3.

As far as the impeller and wear ring - according to the HP shops, Seadoo's come with an outstanding setup that is almost impossible to improve on. They talk really highly of the OEM stuff and pitches - so be careful what your spending money on, you may not get what you were looking for.

Oh and by the way, I too followed the break-in schedule to a T. Maybe we would both do a little better to let the little things eat some more while the hours are low? Just tossing that out there.

Good luck and safe boating.
 
S L O W boat to China

thanks so much for your consideration

unfortunately, the lack of giddy-up has been constant even after the flow through the pump was checked by all means. Checking for obstructions while the boat is on the trailer was a lot easier than the 'dive under' method. The pump was clogged once by a weed but it was cleared it in a minute or two on the water.

Somebody should invent a 'snake' for clearing the pump, because I can't roll the hull over like an Xp or GTX. Yamaha's (I know, I said it), have a trap door for clearing the pumps, I wonder if we civilized folk could adapt that piece of engineering to our Canadian masterpieces?

I took the inlet hose off the supercharger tonight and turned it with my index finger and thumb. Most of us know this is a bit of a distance to reach, as easy as it turned, I wonder if the clutch engages enough to do anything at thousands of rpm?
:confused:
 
sand sucked in a new seadoo challenger

Chester said:
A small stick may not damage the impeller or wear ring but if it is stuck on the impeller, it will cause cavitation & you will lose all thrust. plus it will vibrate badly.

Chester
Click to expand...

I only have 2 hours on my new challenger 180 and sucked some sand into it and now it cavitats on full throtle do you think it has mest up the were ring and impeler ,in the manual it states that if you suck up sand to hook up the flush kit and flush the sand out ,has anybody ever done this and did it worked by flushing out the exhaust and then it will no cavitate no more!
 
makingthepush said:
Thank you to everyone who has provided the input on this issue. I do have an update for all of you....

I did end taking the boat to the dealer to be worked on, again. When they called they told me there was nothing wrong with the boat. Of course they did charge me $200 to put the thing on a computer to "check" it. They could'nt get any error codes, so they put a wrench on the supercharger bolt? and ran it to make sure it engaged properly? They say everything ran fine in the shop so out to the water they went. No issues at all.

Dealer ep told me that high 30's / low 40's was the right speed...AGAIN. I showed him 7 magazine articles all ofwhich had the boat at 47+. I cant find anywhere that Seadoo has the proper speed located in their literature. I was told that I should take the boat and come back if I had more problems. Talk about upset.

I took it to the lake immediately I was so mad. And guess what...it ran 49 on 3/4 tank w/ just me in it. I verified it on my GPS. 8100 RPMs. No problems. 2.5 hrs of pure fun. This is what I thought I was buying. I am so happy now. The difference? 0-30 in like 3 seconds. WOW! And now I can hear the supercharger for the first time. Could this have been the problem all along and by doing the load test it just freed something up?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

The supercharger is gear driven and is always engaged. What the dealer's mechanic did is, he checked the slipping moment of the slip clutch. To properly do this, you have to lock the engine with the locking pin. Then, with a torque wrench, you check the amount of torque it takes to turn the supercharger impeller. If it spins easily, the clutch washers have failed and have to be replaced.
I doubt it was anything that they did that had fixed your problem. The most likely scenario is, the stick or debris in your impeller fell out (or washed out) as you pulled the boat out of the water.

Chester
 
terrye said:
I only have 2 hours on my new challenger 180 and sucked some sand into it and now it cavitats on full throtle do you think it has mest up the were ring and impeler ,in the manual it states that if you suck up sand to hook up the flush kit and flush the sand out ,has anybody ever done this and did it worked by flushing out the exhaust and then it will no cavitate no more!
Click to expand...

Yes you should flush out the sand and no, sand in the exhaust cooling system will not cause cavitation. The sand most likely damaged the wear ring, causing the cavitation.

Chester
 
I've had a similar situation myself. I brought my '07 Challenger late last season and the second trip out I sucked something through the intake and destroyed the wear ring. I took it to the dealership and they replaced the wear ring and the impellor setting me back almost $700! Being new and naive I paid it but wasn't too happy.

This past weekend I may of sucked something up again. I felt and searched the intake/outake and couldn't feel or see anything this time so I dropped it off at the dealership today. Not wanting to pay another $700 I took the old destroyed wear ring and impellor to a boat repair guy down the street from me and he told me that the initial impellor was still good and didn't need to be replaced and he could replace the wear ring for less then $300. So the dealership clearly screwed me. I'm waiting to hear from the dealership now and if they want to charge me for anything I'm refusing, picking it up and taking it down the street instead.

My question, finally, is do they make a wear ring that's stronger, made of metal or something so it's not so fragile? Seems like a useless design if a simple branch can destroy the whole system.
 
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