2 stroke 951cc engine problems please help!!!

[kirkland]

2 stroke 951cc engine problems please help!!! ANYONE...ANY IDEAS....

*Please note all details of what's been done is in this story which is 4 weekends of what's happened to my sea doo and what's been done, I hope someone can pick something out of it and help me.*
Ok, this is going to be the long story short, I'm going to try to keep it short. I bought a 2000 seadoo gtx, bombardier three seater, it was in great shape, been garage kept, new trailer, and the ski has 160 hours of use, the guy said he never rode it hard, took good care of it. I bought it for 1000 bucks, a awesome deal, he just said he wanted it out of his garage and was going to get a boat. Anyway it sat in his garage for a year and a half. I never have owned a ski, only rented them a few times and I relize their are a ton of things I need to learn. I got it and got in a hurry to take it out, bought a battery and she started right up, took it out ran it and the over heating sound went off and I thought maybe a sensor went bad, went a min or two too long, relized at that point I was sinking and I didn't put the freaking plugs in the thing. So I had to gun it enough to get some water out jumped off put the plugs in, took a peak at the engine and I knew I screwed up at one look. It wouldnt start so I thought I was going to have to swim it to shore with a rope, lol. I tried to start off and on for 5 to 10 min, after it cooled I choked it one last time and it started, I knew it was toasted so I hauled it to the dock as fast as I could, only about a quarter mile or so. A hose came off the bottom of the tuned pipe, the engine got hot and blew off more hoses. It burnt all the paint, rave valves, gaskets, even grooved the cylinder walls had water in the engine. I do know about engines that's why this is driving me crazy, anyway enough with the story just thought you would find it funny. Within 2 weeks I had took everything apart down to nothing but pistons hanging out, ordered all new gaskets, rave valve parts that melted. Of course I got all the water out, changed my crankcase oil, honed the walls smooth new hoses and clamps from front to back, changed the get pump oil and all looks great there. I have taken it out 4 times since just to test ride it, ran great no problem for 10- 15 min then started skipping, stalling and would not crank. I found out the hard way it takes special spark plugs they were all fouled up I got some from a seadoo dealer set the gap to 0.06-0.08 found a place online that said that. I tried it again in the yard all was good took it out today and the thing ran perfect for about 15 min and got it up to 55 mph and cutting up out there having fun went to go for 60 and it started skipping stalling at around 45 mph, took it back to dock and tried to just take it easy and see if I could tell what it was doing, kept doing the same when trying to idle, if I gave it a bit of gas and it started skipping went dead and didn't want to crank, at one point I thought it wasn't going to crank. It did crank long enough to get it out of the water. I changed the plugs again just to see if it helped and it's hard to tell because it works fine for a little while no matter if the plugs are bran new or have a little black oil on them. Lo and behold it seems to run fine on land now almost every time, I get it in the water and it does that. I did notice that it seems to have something to do with getting it good and warmed up...(I think), because in the yard I ran it for 3-4 min i did rev it a bit, cut if off for a few and did it again for 1-2 min and it started wanting to sputter when you give it throttle and the hose is cold well water which seems to bog it down due to the shock of the cooler water even if I just cranked the engine it will idle till the cold water gives it a shock and I have to give it some gas to keep it running and if i run it for 20 sec with no water it seems to idle great no problems...(most of the time). This really is driving me crazy because I've changed engines in cars, changed everything in cars just about. Never have or worked on a jet ski till now....the guy lost the owners manual so I got a disk from online and downloaded other stuff on my pc. The seadoo is a challenge to work on but I got it all back together and it looks awesome and runs awesome too when it feels like it. The guy did tell me the oil or gas tank (or both) were changed, can't remember which and that's the only prob he had with it, wish I could say that, I'm a newb with the things but I can work on them, I could take the whole thing apart again and put it all back together again in a weekend if I had to with no special tools, my Dad had the idea to make a ring squeezer with thin sheet metal and straps, and don't even ask how I got the nut off the tuned pipe where it goes on the exhaust man....ok I stood on my head inside the thing with a big screw driver and hammer hitting the nut just right to loosen it and tighten it. I was out of ideas and asked him, it worked but after all that this little glitch is killing me. I don't know if he put fuel stabilizer in but is was only about half a tank and I put 93 octane the rest of the way to fill it up, after I read where 87 is better for them, he only used the best xps synthetic oil so I got the same, I did remove the fuel filter, blow through it and it was very clear made me wonder if the plastic container even had a filter in it I couldn't screw the top off so I figured it didn't come off and didn't want to break it so I just put some cleaner in it shook it around and got some crap out but not much, could the spark wires be burnt from the engine overheating and when they get warm expand and cause my problem. They don't look burnt at all, I've looked into carbs, reed valve and not sure if the will do this or not. The new plugs I put in I checked each time I ran it a little bit and they only had a oily film, maybe a little dark but I would'nt say fouled, I bought 10 so I tried new plugs each time, they darkened but I wouldn't say they got fouled. I don't know what they should look like after 15 min of running but I changed them on the water and it didn't seem to help, is there a oil mixture that can be adjusted, maybe too much oil darkening them too fast, I have no idea and I really don't want to take it to seadoo unless I have I've got this far with it, I can't believe this little thing is trying to give me a hard time. Sorry so long but what do you think could be going on, I mean when it runs good it really runs good, then all of a sudden it does it's thing. It will almost always run good on land with a hose and idle fine 98% of the time on land where I can't run it a lot to check it of course. It again it seems to do it worse in the water when giving it gas I don't know if that's because it runs longer and warms up more than when testing on land or flushing it. I painted the whole thing gold and black, carbs, pipe and head black, all the rest gold turned out nice, if I can just get it to run good. Anyway, Any help is greatly appreciated in advance, or if anyone know someone who might be able to help, please let me know, thanks.

 

[jhjesse]

You seem to have a fuel delivery problem.

Check the white filter just beyond the fuel selector valve. The O ring inside is easily damaged. It will suck air and drive you crazy trying to figure out whats wrong. Just replace it with a new high volume inline filter from your local lawn mower shop.

The small filters inside the carbs...have you cleaned them?
Have you set the HSA and LSA screws on the carbs. The HSA will probably have a cap on them and will not be able to adjust. The LSA should be set at 1 1/2 turns.
If these don't work pull the fuel baffle and clean or just remove the screen on the bottom. It will probably have some crap on it like the filters.
Also while you are at it pull the selector valve and clean it really good or just replace.

Also take a mirror and look at the front of the engine just above the magneto and you will see your oil pump. With the engine off and the carb linkage at idle, you should see two lines, one on the pump and one on the linkage. These two lines should line up with each other. If not then adjust the linkage until they line up. This insures good oil lubrication.

Before you start pulling things apart just try running it on reserve.
If it runs great then you have just narrowed your search.

 

[kirkland]

Hey thanks for the reply, I haven't adjusted anything on the carbs and I have it all back together but it comes apart as easy it it goes together. I think it's a fuel
problem also. One question...you say run it in reverse and it will narrow the search, how and what will it tell me because I did do that when I was trying to figure it out and it ran fine but at that time it would run ok forward too, and it did go around 55 mph then all of a sudden it was like someone cut the gas off
just for a sec, then kept going till I got close to dock and really gave me trouble,
wouldn't start like no gas. One other thing I've seen people saying if you have gray fuel lines to change them, I do have them, also the fuel filter is the white thing in the front under the steering area, if so that was clear, I cleaned it out anyway. I looked at the carbs and pulled the throttle when I had it all apart
and both of the things move together and are in the same position. I will
check the white filter and maybe bypass it to check it, is that the fuel filter or is their another filter somewhere, thanks in advance.

 

[jhjesse]

No...turn the fuel selector to reserve and run it. I am guessing it will run more that 15 min.

If you still have the grey fuel lines, replace them one at a time. Get some fuel line from Autozone. You will need two sizes 1/4" and 5/16" and about a dozen small hose clamps
Pull the carbs and very carefully take them apart one at a time using carb cleaner to clean them thoroughly. When you reassemble set the LSA'a to 1 1/12 turns
Clean or replace the small internal filters.
Get rid of that white filter and get an inline filter from the LM shop.
Pull the fuel baffle and clean the screen on the bottom and re install.
Pull the Fuel selector valve and clean or replace. pn#275500400
Pull the RAVES and clean them.

 

[bigJake]

Check the white filter just beyond the fuel selector valve. The O ring inside is easily damaged. It will suck air and drive you crazy trying to figure out whats wrong. Just replace it with a new high volume inline filter from your local lawn mower shop.

are you talking aout replacing the fuel filter/water seperator? I have a 787 so it may be different?

 

[kirkland]

No...turn the fuel selector to reserve and run it. I am guessing it will run more that 15 min.

If you still have the grey fuel lines, replace them one at a time. Get some fuel line from Autozone. You will need two sizes 1/4" and 5/16" and about a dozen small hose clamps
Pull the carbs and very carefully take them apart one at a time using carb cleaner to clean them thoroughly. When you reassemble set the LSA'a to 1 1/12 turns
Clean or replace the small internal filters.
Get rid of that white filter and get an inline filter from the LM shop.
Pull the fuel baffle and clean the screen on the bottom and re install.
Pull the Fuel selector valve and clean or replace. pn#275500400
Pull the RAVES and clean them.

Thank's jhjesse I now have some things to try, I'm going to do all that you said this weekend if I get a chance if not next weekend 4 sure. I'll let everyone know how it turns out, I did clean all the parts of the rave valves that were metal and replace all the rest when I repaired everything after it overheated.

 

[jetskimajic]

Just a few questions....is this a 951 carb engine??? you said you took this engine down to the pistons/rods, but did you check the carbs and screens in them and did you check the reeds if this is a 951??? did water get into the flywheel/magneto housing? How about the harness connections, any corrosion on ANY of them? There is a lot to check before a trip to the dealer....do you have the SHOP manual for reference? how far did you rip this engine down, there is a ton of things that can go wrong, and a lot that can be right...but its very important to know how to check what you can fix, and what not waste your time on other things... how good are you with electrical/electronic trouble shooting? You got your hands full just like i did but you have to be systematic and be thorough on this. You have to eleminate one thing at a time, and don't loose your patience, this will also make you know this Doo inside and out!

 

[kirkland]

Hey, yes it's a 951 carb engine, I didn't know about the reed valves till I got it back together I didn't check the screens...didn't know till you told me about them, I'm pretty sure no water is in magneto, I got the drain plugs in as soon as I relized the problem. I'll check all plug and harness connections. I replaced all the gaskets, rave valves new spark plugs, new temp sensor, I do have a manual on cd, I think it's a fuel problem like you said the way it's acting but it could be electrical if so I can trouble shoot, I just need to go by the manual it seems to show what to check for, I do heat and ac so I know my way around a meter, it just seems to be fuel related but you never know. I'm going to start with all fuel related things that need to be done anyway, like the gray lines, the filter's, I'm going to try the reserve, get all the gas out of the tank, clean it out and put fresh fuel in, I'm getting there.....(knowing my way around this thing) I don't want to take it to seadoo because I want to know it inside and out, I like working on it and trying to figure it out and save $ also. One important ? Where are the screens on the carb's I see it in the diagram in the manual but where on the carb is it and what's the best way to get to them without taking the whole carb apart....I will say I'm a bit afraid to take the carbs completly apart if I don't have to, is there one screen in each carb or one screen for the both of them. This ski is like new, all the electrical is in mint cond...I looked in the black box where the spark plug wires come from and looks bran new. It seem's the gas is cut off when it has it's problem, I'm just going to take my time like you said and start checking things offf that I've done and what I need to do. A good detail of where I can find the carb filters would help a lot, I can't seem to find that in the manual. I wont be able to work on it till this weekend or the next but I'm going to get it, I have felt it's power under me and I'm hooked now, lol, thanks.

 

[jetskimajic]

You really should pull apart the carbs, keeping track or the turns on the t-handle adjustor screws, but one side of the carb has the jets and the other side has the filter (pump side), it is a small barrel looking thing that has a black plastic housing sticking slightly out of the carb body, it really doesn't look like a filter until you pull it out, be careful not to rip the gaskets, they are like a cloth fiber like material. I don't know where you are at but if it has been in salt water for a while the 4 screws holding the plates on may be tough to break loose, if you have a small inpact driver with a phillips bit, that will usually break them free easily enough. (DON"T STRIP OR SNAP THESE SMALL BOLTS< PITA> to fix if you do) But don't be afraid of the carbs. once they are apart, look carefully at all the gaskets and aluminum blocks as some may have casting irregularities that wear into the gaskets causing a popoff pressure or fuel leak. This new fuel really sucks, so there may be a lot of crap in the carbs even though there are screens built into them. Just the chemical breakdown + moisture from the methenol and gasoline. Take your time and you will be ok. Once back together, check the carbs for proper popoff and any leaks, if you don't know how to do that, than that will be another lesson you will be learning.... HAHAHAHA good luck

 

[kirkland]

Hey, thanks for the info I'll be busy checking all the things...and my last post I thought you were jhjesse, didn't see the name, anyway thanks for the info, no salt this thing is in great cond, like almost showroom nice no salt corr.. anywhere, if fact I changed the get pump oil just to say I could do it, first I saw a video on you tube and the guy almost never got some parts off due to salt corr.. all my stuf jast came right apart no problem like it was new, I can't believe this guy gave it up for 1000 bucks, I'm going from front to back trying to make sure everything is good to go, thanks

 

[kirkland]

No...turn the fuel selector to reserve and run it. I am guessing it will run more that 15 min.

If you still have the grey fuel lines, replace them one at a time. Get some fuel line from Autozone. You will need two sizes 1/4" and 5/16" and about a dozen small hose clamps
Pull the carbs and very carefully take them apart one at a time using carb cleaner to clean them thoroughly. When you reassemble set the LSA'a to 1 1/12 turns
Clean or replace the small internal filters.
Get rid of that white filter and get an inline filter from the LM shop.
Pull the fuel baffle and clean the screen on the bottom and re install.
Pull the Fuel selector valve and clean or replace. pn#275500400
Pull the RAVES and clean them.

Anyone with the same problem and if you have gray fuel lines...he's right they make a huge mess of the whole fuel system, I took it all apart and everything was full of black tar like stuff from the lines, thanks jhjesse.

 

[jhjesse]

Thanks for the compliment, I get lucky once in a while. :cheers: