Time To Debunk The Myth About Mixing Synthetic Oil To Mineral

[SurfBeat]

It's Tuesday morning, and with some free time on my hands, I logged onto the civil and courteous SDF, (unlike the PWC Forum where some members, when faced with opposing views can become rude and obnoxious), I thought I would share some information that I recently discovered that hopefully will be helpful and not be perceived as tossing fuel to the fire to get emotions boiling.

Last night I read an article entitled "Set Us Strait" written by Dan Arcy (Shell Lubricants’ OEM technical manager) in ROTELLA (Shell Oil) Monthly News Letter for the month of October 2010.

The article focused on the issue of whether mixing synthetic oil and mineral oil would harm an engine.

According to Arcy, "it will not."

Arcy pointed out that "it is an all too common misconception, and one with no scientific data to support it."

Arcy supported his position by pointing out that when switching from a mineral oil to a synthetic, or vice versa, "you will potentially leave a small amount of residual oil in the engine"

In Arcy's opinion, "[T]hat's perfectly okay because synthetic oil and mineral-based motor oil are compatible with each other. . . [thus] there is no problem with switching back and forth. And to be clear, there is no problem with switching back and forth between synthetic and mineral based oils."

Arcy then supported his position be pointing out that: "There was a time, years ago, when switching between synthetic oils and mineral oils was not recommended if you had used one product or the other for a long period of time. Some operators experienced problems with seal leakage and high oil consumption but changes in additive chemistry and seal material have taken care of those issues."

According to Arcy, "one reason to change oils from mineral to synthetic is improved start-ability."

The bottom line of the authors article is that "there is no need to be concerned about compatibility of synthetic, mineral or semi-synthetic engine oil," conditioned that "you're always using a quality product."

Albeit the article focused on automotive oil, in consideration that the issue focuses on oil being a lubricant and auto oil and PWC's/snow-mobiles/motorcycles oil come from the same place, IMO, Arcy's position is on point for us.

Let the fireworks begin.

 

[BMANN06]

yah i'd stick with one or the other

A two strokes is designed to burn oil, a four stroke (car) is not designed to burn oil. So there is a completely different chemical reaction. What the properties are of the chemical reaction when burning 2stroke mineral vs. 2stroke synthetic i don't know but if someone does i'd be interested to see. I do know they won't be the same, therefore i would stick with one or the as opposed to switching.

FYI in an arguement like this compare apples to apples.

my 2 cents.

 

[SurfBeat]

A two strokes is designed to burn oil, a four stroke (car) is not designed to burn oil. So there is a completely different chemical reaction. What the properties are of the chemical reaction when burning 2stroke mineral vs. 2stroke synthetic i don't know but if someone does i'd be interested to see. I do know they won't be the same, therefore i would stick with one or the as opposed to switching.

FYI in an arguement like this compare apples to apples.

my 2 cents.

With all due respect B-Man, albeit considering arguendo that your position may be technically correct, (which I do not concede), the information that I have read in my Sea Doo Shop Manuals and Operator Manual is that "oil is primarily a LUBRICANT," used to PROTECT an engine, thus, IMO, that information, when coupled with the Arcy's article may carries substance for us PWC owners.

Moreover, I think the information that I set forth on this Thread reveals, (though contrary to your opinion), that I did in fact compare "apples to apples."

 

[poolpumpguy]

As anyone heard of a blend. Like my underwear i buy my 2 stroke at walmart , pennzoil 2 stoke syn blend for 15 bucks a gallon ! I use the full synthetic on my aquascooter , it's a small motor thats works it's but off and the syn cuts down on the gag factor (smoke).. The one thing i know ya don't fool with is mixing break fluids. Or other fluids like oil and transmission fluid. But as far as coolant,motor oils. Its ok to blend or mix.
But to use motor as a 2 stroke oil was a bad plan, if i remember right when i worked at a mower shop 23 years ago. Seems to me it was a death sentence to the motor and it took a few months to kill ,say a weed wacker. I love syn i run it in vette,trucks and mowers it's nasty hot here in florida

 

[SurfBeat]

As [sic] anyone heard of a blend. . .i [sic] buy my 2 stroke at walmart, [sic] pennzoil [sic] 2 stoke syn blend. . .! I use the full synthetic on my aquascooter . . .and the syn cuts down on the gag factor (smoke).

Pool Pumper: I spent two weeks down in Vero and Sarasota last month and it was bitchin and the chicks looked might fine. In fact, they debunked the myth to the lyrics in a popular Beach Boys tune, "I Wish All the Babes Could Be California Bimbos.

I am on the wire today, pondering over the idea of switching from Valvoline TCW3 sold at Kragens for $15/gal to the Pennzoil Blend sold at Illegal Alien Mart, AKA Wal-Mart.

In your case, did you also notice a decrease in the "gag factor" by using the Pennzoil blend in your PWC as you did with you Aqua-Scooter?

On a side note, I presume that you own a Sea Doo, therefore, why are you using a non API TC rated oil which purportedly is the appropriate oil to use in a SD?

 

[poolpumpguy]

No way i would use it in the water scooter amsoil syn only . Yep i have a 97 sd gtx, i did turn up the oil pump cuz they say to use only syn in the sd. I figure if i turn up the oiler it will get the added oil it needs to keep it happy. Me i go to new smyrna beach. It's about a 20 minn drive.. And yes lots of babes.. Who's the chik in the pic

 

[SurfBeat]

Who's the chik in the pic

Da "chick" is my wife. Not bad for an old broad. Fortunately, she don't need any oil yet.

 

[RFoster130]

I honestly dont see why there would be a problem mixing the too. I know we are told not to do it, but I would like to see more scientific research.

 

[Wire4Money]

Some 2 stroke oils will react and coagulate to form a gel. I had to replace a new top end in my GSX because the oils reacted and clogged everything. Here's a pic of the oil filter after I popped it open.

 

[BMANN06]

Nice!

Some 2 stroke oils will react and coagulate to form a gel. I had to replace a new top end in my GSX because the oils reacted and clogged everything. Here's a pic of the oil filter after I popped it open.

Well i think that pretty much sums up this arguement.

 

[Dr Honda]

I don't feel like reading any of this... but here's the "nitty gritty" from: A) someone who has been playing with engines for a long time; B) Someone who spend 8 years as a R&D Chemist.....


Back in the day... when synthetic oils were just being brought out to the public... YES, it was VERY BAD TO MIX THEM. Because of that... once you went synthetic, you could not go back. But the automotive community couldn't have people having an engine die because they used synthetic, and some grease monkey decided to top off their engine with regular oil. So, a lot of time and research went into compatibalizing synthetics.

Since the late 80's, you have been able to mix synthetic, and non-synthetic AUTOMOTIVE oils. (unless the manufacture warns against it)

BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US !!!!!


FORGET THE SYNTHETIC/MINERAL COMPATIBILITY DEBATE. YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX DIFFERENT TYPES/BRANDS OF 2-CYCLE OILS UNLESS THE MANUFACTURE SAYS IT'S OK, AND THEY MAKE BOTH BRANDS. (period)

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oil Debate...!

I don't feel like reading any of this... but here's the "nitty gritty" from: A) someone who has been playing with engines for a long time; B) Someone who spend 8 years as a R&D Chemist.....


Back in the day... when synthetic oils were just being brought out to the public... YES, it was VERY BAD TO MIX THEM. Because of that... once you went synthetic, you could not go back. But the automotive community couldn't have people having an engine die because they used synthetic, and some grease monkey decided to top off their engine with regular oil. So, a lot of time and research went into compatibalizing synthetics.

Since the late 80's, you have been able to mix synthetic, and non-synthetic AUTOMOTIVE oils. (unless the manufacture warns against it)

BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US !!!!!


FORGET THE SYNTHETIC/MINERAL COMPATIBILITY DEBATE. YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX DIFFERENT TYPES/BRANDS OF 2-CYCLE OILS UNLESS THE MANUFACTURE SAYS IT'S OK, AND THEY MAKE BOTH BRANDS. (period)

It does seem that this oil debate will go on for years and years. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's what the forum is for. But, we also recommend advice that is based on the BRP (Rotax) shop manuals, and at times, leave it up to the user to accept the advice from other members who have been mechanics on 2 stroke motors for many years. Myself, I have over 40 years working on the 2 strokes, my first a dirt bike. Other long time members, like Dr. Honda, have a proven track record of advice that is based on years of experience, shop manuals and whats learned from trial and error.

While I too have read articles about mixing oils, the skinny is simple. It states that you can mix synthetic to mineral but not the other way around. But, this does not apply to our motors. As it was pointed out by another member, our motors burn the oil with fuel.

I would also recommend the requirments from BRP. When your changing oil from one grade to another, clean the entire oil system. This is pretty much a "no brainer". Anyone who has any experience with oils, know that from each manafacturer, additives usually vary. These R&D specialists with these oil companies test their products as designed. I don't think they go to all the other competitors, grab all the different additives and mix them together and perform tests to see what the compatibility is.

My advice here?.......... Don't take chances on oil. It's the most important component part of any motor, 4 stroke or 2. Follow guidelines set out by the motors manafacturer. If you don't know the oil that is in a PWC/Boat when you purchase it, then you should find solid advice from a strong mechanic who has dealt with this kind of issue. In most cases, the specifications will list more than one type oil that can be used. When the oil type is not known, a clean out and upgrade to the next best suitable oil suggested by the manufacturer is suggested. This way, you know you've covered all your bases.

There is a lot of information on fluids for every motor made, but not every motor made is used in identical environments. Rotax makes 2 and 4 stroke motors, you'll see that they both have different requirments. Do not use information from any "Oil" manafacturers guidelines to determine what kind of oil you want to use in your craft. Follow the recommendations by the motor manafacturer or a highly skilled mechanic who has enough years experience to give you sound advice.

So this thread doesn't go off on a different tangent, I'm going to close it now. Please, don't experiment with your engines oil requirments, follow the specs............:cheers: