Keep oil injection or not.

[OldSkisKeepThemRunning]

I am Brand New to WaterCraft Fun. I just purchased a 1990 Seadoo Spi 580. The previous owner started to remove the oil injection pump and install a type of block off plate kit. I bought it with the oil pump removed. But the conversion was never finished. Should I put it back to stock with the oil injection operative or install this kit I received with the ski and illiminate the oil injection system? I Appreciate any advice. Thanks.

 

[Dr Honda]

The SeaDoo pump is reliable. If it's all there, test the pump by hooking a drill to it, and check the output. If it's OK... clean the tank out, put on some new hoses and filter... and put it all back on the engine.

Not to mention... even if you go pre-mix... you still have to leave the tank in the hull to give the rotary valve gears a supply of oil.

The only watercraft I recommend removing the oil pump from is Yamaha. They seem to have issues with the pump failing, or the system plugging up.

 

[nikko_m]

there it is...but if the pump is busted,just go premix.

 

[Dr Honda]

there it is...but if the pump is busted,just go premix.

Yep.

A new pump is expensive... and I don't know if I would trust a 15 year old eBay pump. So, if your's is busted... go pre-mix.

 

[OldSkisKeepThemRunning]

Oil Injection

Dr Honda. Thank You for you Knowledgable & Sound advice. I surfed this web site last night for about 2 hours and have seen you have helped numerous people. I Thank You again for your advice. I am going to do exactly what you said. I will test the pump. and if Ok? it will go back on with New hoses and clean fresh oil. Does Wal-Mart sell any type of oil that I could use in this ski? How about the Pennzoil oil they sell for skis? Thank You again.

 

[Dr Honda]

Seadoo's need API-TC oils. Do not use TC-w3 oils. Some Wal-Marts sell "Quicksilver PWC" oil. (don't use any of the other Quicksilver, or oils that say for outboard engines)

Most likely, they won't have anything you can use, and you will need to go to your local SeaDoo dealer to get oil.

 

[aadams1278]

Hi,

I know i'll be resurrecting an old thread (seems to be a common topic though) by doing this, and if someone feels this should be its own separate thread then that's fine, but I think it has several similarities that directly apply to my situation as well.

I have a 96 SeaDoo SPI that has always ran great. (I have owned it for 9 years) Other than the occasional bad gas left in the tank over the winter, but once i get it started, it works great the rest of the season.

The first time I tried to start it for this season was a few days ago. I forgot to use fuel stabilizer over the winter and when I couldn't get it started, I figured that was the problem, like it has been before. Long story short, I ended up using some starter fluid and pouring some gas into the air intake to get it started, and once I did that a few times it would start up quite nicely on its own. The first time it started that night (last night) it was VERY smoky. which didn't really surprise me. Myself, and the guy that was helping me, agreed that we thought it had accumulated excess oil somehow over the winter (which I think I managed to confirm is at least sometimes a problem via other posts on this forum) and perhaps that was partially the problem with hard starting, and the gas wasn't so bad after all.

Today, I took it out to the lake to make sure it was running good and to get a majority of the old fuel burned out so i can get fresh gas in it as well as burn out any gunk that had accumulated over the winter. (turned out the gas wasn't bad, but it's definitely not fresh). Everything went great today, cranked very quickly, ran good, idled good, everything. no sounds out of the ordinary or vibrations or anything unexpected. About 30 minutes or so into the ride, I thought to check the amount of smoke coming out. I didn't notice any at all! So i second guessed myself and thought, well maybe it's not noticeable when i'm in the water and is only noticeable on the trailer. so i kept riding. I was also checking the temperature of the cooling water spray (near ski fitting) to see if it was abnormally hot, and it was fine. (I have felt it hotter in previous years) It actually cooled off the longer I rode. I rode about 1 hour total and a majority was at full throttle. no abnormal symptoms at all. When I got it on the trailer and cranked it again, there was no smoke at all! A huge change from last night.

I heard from a coworker earlier this week that the oil pumps are known for failing on jet skis and i should consider bypassing it and going pre mix. so I came here and found this thread.

Tonight I did troubleshooting. I looked in the service manual and found the oil control lever and did the test they recommend as well as someone on this forum suggested. at idle, press the oil lever wide open and it should smoke heavily. I did that multiple times, and NO smoke at all! No change in engine sound. Checked the oil filter and it flowed fine, cleaned it real good and reinstalled, still no smoke. The only thing in the manual i couldn't do was bleed the oil line because i couldn't determine where the bleed screw was from the diagram (it wasn't very clear).

I know for a fact that it has been smoking in previous seasons.

So first of all, Is there anything that could be wrong here that I haven't checked yet that is or could be an easy fix? I don't feel comfortable taking the pump off and manually testing it with a drill for fear of breaking corroded bolts, seals, gaskets etc.

Next, If in fact my oil pump did fail today or sometime during the winter, and I rode for approximately 1 hour at full throttle with no oil flow, how did the engine not lock up and how are there no symptoms of anything wrong? The service manual makes it sound like it's the end of the world even if you just change the oil filter and don't bleed the lines before running the engine.

I'm not at all opposed to going pre mix, but I don't feel comfortable trying to remove the oil pump. If I do go pre mix, how long is it going to take that oil to make its way into the engine for the first time?

I really appreciate any help on this. I'm hoping to ride some more this week and hope to get good use of the jet ski this season.

 

[Dr Honda]

This should have been it's own thread... but it is on the same lines of the original question... so... whatever.

Let me start by saying... if your oil pump failed completely... the engine would have seized up in a minute or two at full throttle. So... it's probably pumping.

Second... the extra smoke during the first startup is from oil that got past the center seals of the engine. It's normal for an older Seadoo engine to leak oil from the rotary valve, and into the engine. This oil will burn out in a a couple minutes of riding.

Seadoo's oil pump (made by Mikuni) is very reliable, and I haven't ever seen a confirmed failure. Seadoo oil system problems come from lack of maintenance. Either the little hoses break and fall off... or the filter get's plugged up. AND... every once in a while... the small check valves get stuck. If you service the system every few years... there is never be an issue.

 

[aadams1278]

Given all that, what should I do now? I've never done any service to the system. Those little hoses look brittle and painted over with the same kind of coating that's on the engine block. It didn't look like they'd be easy to get off and replace.

 

[Dr Honda]

If they have paint on them... they are the original hoses. I would replace them. No... it's not easy to put them on... but it's worth knowing that the oil system is working.

I would do a full service.

1) Pitch off the hose above the filter.
2) Remove, and replace the filter.
3) Remove the small hoses, by lightly pitching metal tabs on the stock clamps. That will open them enough to pull the old hoses off.
4) Remove the check valves, and make sure they are clean and clear. (they are on the pump with a banjo bolt) Then, reinstall.
5) replace the small hoses with 3/16" ID Tygon or other fuel tube. Hold them in place with a good quality zip tie.
6) Bleed the air out, starting with the bleed screw int he face of the pump. (it's the only screw on the face of the pump that is not holding something on) Once that flows without air bubbles, close it.
7) add about 2oz/gal of oil to the main fuel tank. (for safety)
8) Start the engine, and hold the valve open on the oil pump.
9) You should see the oil pulsing back and forth between the 2 hoses... and it should only take about 10 seconds for the hoses to fill. If you don't see it pumping... you could have air in the pump, or the check valves are stuck.

One last thing... while the little hoses are off... poke threw the nipples on the manifold to make sure that they are clear. Oil can cook into them if the engine has been back firing.

 

[aadams1278]

Thanks, great info!
Am I correct that it should be smoking at least SOME while it's running, and that no smoke at all is a bad sign?

The bleed screw, I think I know the one you're talking about, but should oil just flow through it by gravity or does the engine need to be running?
I don't remember seeing any check valves on the pump itself. the only one I know of is the one on top of the oil tank.
If it does have air in the pump, whats the course of action from there?

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks, great info!
Am I correct that it should be smoking at least SOME while it's running, and that no smoke at all is a bad sign?

During normal, warm operation... you will see no smoke. That's why Seadoo used the variable oil system. At idle... your mix can be as high as 75:1. Without a load... it just doesn't need as much oil. And at high speed... you are around 40:1... but with a heavy load... you will burn the oil.

The bleed screw, I think I know the one you're talking about, but should oil just flow through it by gravity or does the engine need to be running?

The bleed screw will be gravity fed. take it out, and let it flow. A small mirror will help you see if there are any bubbles. Also, it may have to flow for a little wile for the air to come out of the filter.

I don't remember seeing any check valves on the pump itself. the only one I know of is the one on top of the oil tank.
If it does have air in the pump, whats the course of action from there?

The check valves are the banjo fittings where the 2 small hoses hook to the pump. With the hoses off... take the bolt out of them. When putting them back on... be careful to not break the banjo bolt since it's hollow.

If you bleed the pump... there won't be any air in it. (but that's why I told you put oil in the fuel. It will protect your engine, if there was still a bubble in the system)

 

[aadams1278]

Ok, i bled the pump and it was dripping oil immediately so i didn't keep dripping it all over the place.

I didn't do anything to the small lines yet but i did take a closer look at them and they seem to be fine and flexible, it's just the paint that's cracking off and not the tube itself. that's not to say they don't need replacing, but for now that doesn't seem to be the root cause of my problem.

Then i took off the banjo bolt on the side and there was a drop of oil on the bolt, but no oil ran out of the pump at the attachment point. I ran the engine for a few seconds and there was no oil coming out at all, even if i open the oil pump lever all the way. I can't get to the bottom banjo bolt with my ratchet to check it. The fact that there's no oil coming from where the banjo bolt goes is not a good sign is it? (UPDATE: this is not true, i noticed later that there IS oil coming from those ports. see below post)

 

[aadams1278]

UPDATE: As I was cleaning up, I noticed that there WAS oil on the outside housing of the pump. So I did another run with the cooling water attachment so I could let it run for a little longer and with the pre mix gas in the tank. I left the banjo bolt removed and used a mirror to look directly into that port while it was running. I did see oil pulsing out of the port! great news and huge relief for me! I was expecting more flow so that's why I didn't notice it before.

That being said, I definitely want to go ahead and replace those small lines to be 100% sure they're not clogged and make sure those nipples on the manifold aren't stopped up as well.

The engine does change sound when i open that oil valve all the way, but there's not a whole lot of smoke still. is that rpm change a result of more resistance on the engine from the pump running full blast or a direct indication that oil IS getting in the cylinder?

 

[aadams1278]

Thanks to Dr Honda and his step by step guide to full service of the oil system! I now have new oil lines and have confirmed that the oil pump is properly working and flowing to both cylinders.

Disaster averted!!