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What kind of impeller to buy??

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Thumper3322

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Hey all... I'm thinking ahead to next season already, this one was way to short for me. I'm thinking of a new impeller but not sure what kind and pitch to buy. It's for a 99 spx 787. I'm looking more for top speed over hole shot.

Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks!
 
Without any mods... you won't gain much... but a Solas Concord series will be your best bet for top speed.

Personally... I almost always recommend a Skat-Trak "Swirl" impeller. They give you the best out of the hole performance, and better acceleration. That will put a big grin on your face when riding.

A stock machine with a Concord will gain around 2 mph up top, with stock accelleration... but honestly... you can't tell... and since you won't "Feel" the difference... you will think to yourself... "Why did I just spend $200 on this?"

My 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.
 
Without any mods... you won't gain much... but a Solas Concord series will be your best bet for top speed.

Personally... I almost always recommend a Skat-Trak "Swirl" impeller. They give you the best out of the hole performance, and better acceleration. That will put a big grin on your face when riding.

A stock machine with a Concord will gain around 2 mph up top, with stock accelleration... but honestly... you can't tell... and since you won't "Feel" the difference... you will think to yourself... "Why did I just spend $200 on this?"

My 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.

Thanks doc! Really appreciate your input. Would the skat-trak do anything to top speed, or just a better hole shot and acceleration with the same top speed or less? What about pitch? I was looking at the solas 17/24 xprop they say best for overall performance and top speed.

What I'm thinking is new prop, fix the trim so it goes a bit higher, and bore out the back outlet valve (piece that the water comes out of and used for steering and trim). What you think? Do grates make much of a difference?

Thx again!
 
If you have a stock engine... then use the pitch Solas recommends.

Boring your steering nozzle probably won't do anything for you. If you want to adjust the pump pressure and RPM... then you bore the pump nozzle. If you open it about 1mm... you will gain 200 to 300 RPM up top. You will loose a little pump pressure... but you will gain RPM, and volume. In turn, you may gain some speed. (and better acceleration)


OK... reflecting on that... before you start trying to chase more top speed... how good is everything?? Is your engine compression good? Is your driveshaft, and seal good??? Is your pump good? If you are looking for speed... everything needs to be right. Over the years... I've seen more than once... someone tries to mod a warn out ski... and in turn, they don't get any improvement... and worse... I've seen engines give up because of the bolt on mods.

So... you have an 800 ski. Is you compression at 150 psi? Are you getting up to 6800 RPM in stock trim? If not... then trying to mod the pump may cause you to loose RPM because you cant push it.

I'm not trying to influence your decision, I just don't want you to be disappointed.


OK... Skat-Trak. The swirl impellers have more overlap than any other impeller... and they have a good contour. Because of that... they show almost NO cavitation, and they can make great pressure down low. In many of the applications, they will have the same top speed as stock, but will have a WAY better hole shot, and mid acceleration.

Solas impellers have less overlap, but have a narrow hub, so they can process more water. In turn, they are more efficient, and make higher overall pressure. The Concord impellers are better for stock applications... the "X" is better with a few mods.

if you make your "Trim go higher"... you will scrub any extra speed you may have created with pump/impeller improvements. Ideally, you want to re-balance the hull to run with the pump and the trim nozzle running in line. NOW... if you need to trim to make it ride better... you will be better off to "Wedge" the pump. That way, you are only re-directing the water once.

If you are only interested in top speed... take your grate off. Almost all grates load the pump heavy, and create drag. It will give you more top end... but horrid handling.
 
Thanks Doc! Really appreciate your knowledge feedback!!

If you have a stock engine... then use the pitch Solas recommends.

Boring your steering nozzle probably won't do anything for you. If you want to adjust the pump pressure and RPM... then you bore the pump nozzle. If you open it about 1mm... you will gain 200 to 300 RPM up top. You will loose a little pump pressure... but you will gain RPM, and volume. In turn, you may gain some speed. (and better acceleration)


OK... reflecting on that... before you start trying to chase more top speed... how good is everything?? Is your engine compression good? Is your driveshaft, and seal good??? Is your pump good? If you are looking for speed... everything needs to be right. Over the years... I've seen more than once... someone tries to mod a warn out ski... and in turn, they don't get any improvement... and worse... I've seen engines give up because of the bolt on mods.

So... you have an 800 ski. Is you compression at 150 psi? Are you getting up to 6800 RPM in stock trim? If not... then trying to mod the pump may cause you to loose RPM because you cant push it.

I really don't want to do any crazy mods. From what I have read a simple mod is new impeller and wear ring. Is it not true about more trim, get more of the ski out of the water makes less friction and therefore more speed? But I understand the fact of more redirect of the water could in fact be a counter reaction. Didn't think about that. If so then what's the best setting on trim for top speed?

The compression on my MAG is 151 and PTO is 157-158 so they are good. I don't have an RPM gauge so I can't say what they are urg. Don't know why seadoo didn't put these on this machine. Again from what I can see everything seems good. How much difference does a new wear ring do? I have some wear in mine, meaning it isn't completely smooth all the way around, some warn/holes in some spots.

OK... Skat-Trak. The swirl impellers have more overlap than any other impeller... and they have a good contour. Because of that... they show almost NO cavitation, and they can make great pressure down low. In many of the applications, they will have the same top speed as stock, but will have a WAY better hole shot, and mid acceleration.

Solas impellers have less overlap, but have a narrow hub, so they can process more water. In turn, they are more efficient, and make higher overall pressure. The Concord impellers are better for stock applications... the "X" is better with a few mods.

if you make your "Trim go higher"... you will scrub any extra speed you may have created with pump/impeller improvements. Ideally, you want to re-balance the hull to run with the pump and the trim nozzle running in line. NOW... if you need to trim to make it ride better... you will be better off to "Wedge" the pump. That way, you are only re-directing the water once.

If you are only interested in top speed... take your grate off. Almost all grates load the pump heavy, and create drag. It will give you more top end... but horrid handling.
What do you mean by "Wedge" the pump? LOL...really don't want to take the grate off if that will be the case.
Can I not buy a grate that will increase water flow, but still have handling? I've seen some for newer skis.

I got these ideas from a seadoo rep., running a gsx 787, he did new impeller higher pitch and more trim. Said he was getting the water in, but not out. So bored the steering nozzle a bit and now runs 67mph. GSX is a heavier machine, why so much faster? Something about their driveshaft being smaller?

Thanks again DOC!!
 
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Great thread, I've been wondering what prop I should get for my stock 787. I'm going to try the Skat-Trak Swirl before the next season since I'm mainly interested in acceleration. We're never gonna hang with the super charged yachts in top speed so I want to get em off the line atleast!
 
I'll try to go in order.

1) Yes... if you trim up, and lift the nose... you get more of the hull out of the water, and in theory, you will have less drag, and make more speed. The problem is... nothing in the world is free... so to lift the hull takes power. Also, as you lift the hull, all the weight is being supported by a smaller, and smaller area. So, eventually it starts to create drag. When you trim up... there is always a "Sweat spot" for performance. One more thing... you may find the perfect trim for smooth water, but as soon as you hit a ripple, you may start to bounce.

2) Wedge: If you trim the hull using the nozzle... then you are also loosing power because you are redirecting the water. SO... what we do is to wedge the pump. This is a little ring that is cut at an angle to hold the pump nozzle are a differt direction. SO... if you find that a little up trim gets you more speed... then you put in a wedge with a few degrees of "Up" in it. That way your steering/trim nozzle is in line with the pump nozzle, and you get back that power.

3) wear rings: If your ring isn't in bad shape... you probably aren't loosing much. Normally, when they are lightly warn... you don't loose top speed, but you do loose hole-shot, you get more cavitation from a stop, and your top RPM is higher. It's always advised to replace the ring if you are putting in a new impeller. In a bigger, heavier ski... it's a different story.

4) Grates: OK... with a jet ski... you can't have handling and speed... so you have to chose. Almost everything to improve handling will scrub speed. I don't really recommend removing the grate, but if you are looking for every last drop of top speed... removing it helps... but you will slide out in a corner, the pump will come unloaded, and it won't hook up in rough water.

This comes to the flip side of all of this... once you tune for peak performance on smooth water... you will loose ALOT of speed once it gets rough. (We will talk more on this in a minute)

5) OK.. the rep has his head in his ass. He is not running 67 MPH with a stock engine, in an X4 hull. The only thing he said that was right, is if you put on a steeper pitched impeller... you need to open your pump to get the RPM back. Basically, what it comes down to... your engine can only make so much pressure in the pump. So... if you go a degree or two higher on the impeller... your exit pressure will still be the same, but you will loose RPM because you are running out of HP. This can go to the point where you fall off the "Peak" HP RPM. Opening the pump nozzle will allow the pump to unload, and you will bring the RPM back up to peak, and even though your pressure/velocity is the same... you will move more volume, and in turn, you MAY go faster because of a bigger push. (I hope that makes sense)


Note: Sorry this got long... but I am just trying to give good info. Now... on my personal ski, I run a skat trak Swirl that is one degree higher than recommended, and my pump is opened 1mm. BUT, I run a top loader grate, and I have LARGE trim tabs that are trimmed down 3 degrees. (pushes the nose into the water) With this set up... I can grab the throttle, and the hull will basically jump out of the water when I hit the throttle. Also, even in rough water, my hull stays planted, and my pump stays loaded... so in turn, I run fast on rough water. Unless you weigh 90 Lbs... you will have a problem with porous'ing at speed being trimmed up. When that happens, your pump will unload, and you loose top speed... also, you will have to let off the throttle to get control back.

Now... in theory, the top loader, and the tabs will scrub speed... but I'm getting a solid 55~57 mph even in rough water.

As a final note... you asked why can the bigger GSX go faster. Well, that has to do with aspect ratio, and without a physics lecture... it's hard to explain, but this is why gliders, and sail boats work so well with minimal power. The simple answer is that when your length is extended, but you stay narrow, then the parasitic drag is reduced. But like everything else... this is a give and take since you reduce your turning radius. (The X4 hull will out corner the GSX)
 
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i have a 15/25 stat trak swirl in a 97 xp that i am gonna try in a 96 xp.
it was night and day in the 97 from the stock prop
 
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