What do you tow with - Speedster 200 Wake?

[Chimp]

Hi

I currently own a Sportser LE 951 and it's very towable by a small hatchback car and a breeze launching on a "normal" size 4x4 SUV Nissan type x-trail etc.

Now looking to get something I can actually wakeboard off the back and have a possible 2006 Speedster 200 Wake the 430bhp version! Looks nice!!

But checked the specs today and the downloaded pdf from seadoo for a 2006 says 1340kg off the trailer and 1944kg on it! That VERY heavy....

So what do people tow these things with? I know alot of the viewers on here are in the USA so I imagine you will come back with massive F150 pickups? but 1944kg!! "gunna need a bigger car" :blush:

 

[Dr Honda]

Well.... I know you are looking for a different answer... but you are going to need a real 1/2ton truck or SUV to tow it. That's a heavy boat, with brakes on the trailer.

One thing to think about... even though, they list the gross trailer weight at 1,943 KG... it could weigh more if you have it loaded with gear. I'm sure the rated trailer gross is a few hundred Lbs more than listed.

 

[BMANN06]

2010 Chevy Avalance LTZ pull mine around no probs!!

 

[Chimp]

So as default the trailer will have brakes? Oh thats good. I have be getting a tow from my brothers Nissan Navarra but hes moved job and now can't so I am looking for something to tow with myself. Coming from an Audi TTRS and looking at SUV/pickups type 4x4 is completely alien!

I like the Land Rover Evoque but it seems it's max is 1800kg according to the latest spec on the website don't think its enough :banghead:

So maybe a VW Tourag or Audi Q5... being in the UK

 

[BMANN06]

So as default the trailer will have brakes? Oh thats good. I have be getting a tow from my brothers Nissan Navarra but hes moved job and now can't so I am looking for something to tow with myself. Coming from an Audi TTRS and looking at SUV/pickups type 4x4 is completely alien!

I like the Land Rover Evoque but it seems it's max is 1800kg according to the latest spec on the website don't think its enough :banghead:

So maybe a VW Tourag or Audi Q5... being in the UK

Yup trailer will have brakes, my best friend owns and runs an rv/trailer lot and sells trucks. His advice when it comes to selecting a tow rig is to take your average towing load mulitiply by 2 and that should be your vehicles towing/hauling load (min). His thought is that if your always towing at near max, your going to wear out the truck way too fast. In your case it might be safe to go closer to max if your just going to be occassionally dumping the speedster at the launch on weekends etc.

 

[speedster32940]

2011 Honda Pilot 4WD. Works just fine. Has a V6 which could pull a little harder, but is ok. Have driven it NY to Florida several times without problem. Don't think I even need the 4WD for most of the ramps around us.

 

[Dr Honda]

So as default the trailer will have brakes? Oh thats good. I have be getting a tow from my brothers Nissan Navarra but hes moved job and now can't so I am looking for something to tow with myself. Coming from an Audi TTRS and looking at SUV/pickups type 4x4 is completely alien!

I like the Land Rover Evoque but it seems it's max is 1800kg according to the latest spec on the website don't think its enough :banghead:

So maybe a VW Tourag or Audi Q5... being in the UK

Well.... the Evoque is a light weight vehicle, with a little 2L engine. So... DO NOT go out an buy one as a tow vehicle. My Wife's Subaru makes a better to rig.

The Tourag could be a good tow rig. I'm not sure about in the UK... but in the USA... you could get a twin turbo, V10 diesel that put down 500 Lb-Ft of torque. That would pull the snot out of a small boat. (FYI, it's towing cap is 7,700 Lbs)

What Bmann06 is saying is right. If you are going to be towing long distances, in traffic, or in the hills... then you need to double your capacity. I tow my boat with a 1/2 ton truck, rated at 9500 Lbs. My boat loaded is around 5200 Lbs. If it was any heavier... I would want my 3/4 ton Diesel truck to pull it. A smaller truck/SUV could tow it... but if you get into a panic... it could get ugly quick.

 

[Chimp]

Ok thanks for the insight! I will look around and see whats in my price range that actually look nice and has toys on it

I want to get the wake edition as it has everything on it I would have to add to my sportster LE (stereo, speakers, hyrdo turf, impeller upgrade, ballast tanks etc) but at the end of it all, I would only have 4 people on it, would struggle to pull a wakeboarder out of the hole with the extra weight that might give me a better wake ... catch 22 really.

The speedster wake has it all and more room and a much more powerfull engine/s so perfect (im not a mega boarder but learning quickly I think due to 15 years+ snowboarding! and dont want to get bored.

I suppose the extra weight might add up to bigger wake alongside the ballast installed.

 

[BMANN06]

I've got the wake edition, I pull 200lb plus wakeboarders out with 6ppl in boat and the ballast tank full with absolutely no problems at all, this rig has more torque an power than you'll ever need. The perfect pass system is nice too, its kinda like cruise control and you can program it for different riders ... very slick setup.

 

[Chimp]

Well I went to view the 200 Wake over the weekend and I love the size and features but seems there would be some complicaions before buying it and would consider buying it as long as the deal is sweet!

First, I know the Seadoo scene in the UK is no where near as big as USA and there isnt many Seadoo's around so limited in choice but the boat is 2006 first launched into water in 2007 and has 66 hours on it but the dealer says he has had it since the begining of last season, I know this is a lie as the photo's he sent in his showroom dated July 2011! Scope for reduction in price!

The 1 owner couldn't drive it as there are a few scrapes to the graphics and rub strip well quite a few but nothing major no actual "dings" and I thought about getting the hull "wrapped" anyway later! But scope for reduction in price!

The trailer is the biggest problem, its a USA spec but the previous owner has cut the brakes and changed the hitch to UK spec normal one... this means its completely illegal to tow with any car/suv etc as the weight would be too much. I asked if he could source another trailer and he would let me know, But I am sure this would be in the region of £2000.

He believes that the Ceramic SC washers have not been replaced so another consideration as he is a service center I ask if he would do this and he seemed very reluctant.... so more scope for reduction and get it done elsewhere.

I think I know why this boat has been sat for the last 18 months in his showroom! hes not interested in selling it!

One last question, would you expect the engine compartment to be quite messy? ie not cleaned at all even if it had been serviced? My current Sportster is spotless in the engine bay and throughout!

 

[Dr Honda]

I'm not there... so I could be way off... but just because a picture is dated 2011, doesn't mean that's when it was actually taken. My "Pocket" camera will reset the date if it has a dead battery. Anyway... I wouldn't hold tight to that date, and he may have only had it on his floor for 6 mo.


If it's a an actual seadoo dealer... I would make the SC service part of the deal. If he wants to move the boat... it's easier for him to add a little labor than to lower a price sometimes.


Finally... I'm not sure what you are saying about the trailer. Have the brakes been removed completely? In the USA, that would be illegal to operate... and for an actual dealer to sale since there is a safety issue. If in the UK the brakes are mandatory for a trailer that heavy... then he would have to make them functional before you drove off with it.

With that said... I pulled my boat +500 miles without brakes... but I used a real tow vehicle, and it was able to handle it. Also... since the surge breaks were basically dead... and I didn't feel like rebuilding the system... I took them off, and installed electric brakes. They were easy to install... and work WAY better anyway.


I guess before I pass any judgment on this... in the UK... what was the price new? What is he asking? What is your "Book value" for that boat?




*****EDIT******


I just looked up UK laws... and that trailer would need to have brakes, with a parking brake. (trailers over 750 kg) AND... I would think (because of liability) the breaks would have to be functional for a dealer to sale it.



Just as an FYI... there was a PDF about "American trailers in the UK"... and the first thing it talked about is a manually operated electric brake. Well... that kid of system wouldn't be legal in the USA either. BUT... most electric controllers have a manual over-ride on them. So... a USA electric control unit will automatically apply the trailer brakes with the tow vehicle brakes. BUT... if I'm on a slick road... of if the trailer is startting to sway... I can reach down and apply only the trailer brakes, and it will pull me straight. OR... if I want to dry out the brakes, after being in the water... I can put a little pressure on the trailer brake without using the vehicle brake. (Electric brakes are great)

 

[Chimp]

Hey all valid points

I have also carried out an archive search on the advert web page and it was first seen in August 2011 so seems to stack up that he has had it that long.

I imagine why he has, is because of the trailer situation. If anyone towed the trailer in the UK they would not be insured as they would be beyond the towing capacity of any vehicle on an unbraked trailer. He tried to say the advert said "launch trailer", but how the hell do you get it to the slip :willy_nilly: in the first place.

One would also assume that buyers have tried to ask if the SC's work had been carried out and he said no and then tried to convince them like he did me that as long as you dont leave the water crashing around and put the proper oil in then it will never go wrong.

When I also mentioned about at 100 hours the SC's need rebuild/service he showed me the workshop manual and it said 200 hours. Realising later that he showed me the "revised" service schdeule for a SC's with the metal not ceramic parts!

Anyway he will come back to me with some kind of proposal with a replacement trailer and the SC work and we shall tango with the price from that point. Incidently he has another Speedster 200 in the showroom with a replaced trailer, I will maybe suggest that he swaps them over so he doesn't get hit much on his end so I can negotiate on the price easier.

As to the "Book price" I don't really know I haven't seen one for sale since I have looked at Seadoo for 1 year or so.

Once other question is on the Ballast system, I saw that there was a tank in the "ski locker" is that the only one? I suppose it's the newer 210 & 230 with more tanks?

I could always look for a non wake and put some fat sacks in...

 

[RFoster130]

2010 Chevy Avalance LTZ pull mine around no probs!!

You bought a newer one? How ya like it? I miss mine. The Tahoe is nice but the avy was awesome.

 

[Dr Honda]

As far as I know... yes... it only has a single ballast tank. (center mounted)


How bad is the trailer? Could brakes just be put back on? That could be a HUGE price reduction to you, if you take it as-is. Let's face it... if he is getting you a new trailer... or even swapping trailers... that's a large $$$ output on his side. A new trailer for him will be around $2,000 USD. But, new brakes could be installed for less than $400. My electric conversion cost me $250, and that was installing a folding tongue. If you have a buddy with a 1/2 ton or larger truck... you could tow it to your house to do the work. I'm not saying it's legal... but it could be done.

As far as calling it a "Launching Trailer"... well that's what it is right now. But, that would assume you are leaving the boat in a marina. (and in the water most of the time) Oh... and as an FYI... Rotax Seadoo boats are not rated to be left in the water.


The SC service would be a sticking point for me. Even for a good home mechanic... it's not easy, or cheap. There are a bunch of special tools... and the washer and seal kit will still be $150 per SC. As you know... they changed to 200 hr's... and the original spec was 100 hr's. BUT... I've seen ceramic washers give up with as little as 20 hr's on them. When they shatter... it could kill the engine.


If he's not willing to move around on the price... just walk away.

 

[BMANN06]

You bought a newer one? How ya like it? I miss mine. The Tahoe is nice but the avy was awesome.

Yah my trans and engine was getting pretty tired and wanted a rig I can travel distances with the family and not break down. I really love all the new features and options on the LTZ but she sure is a pavement queen compared to my old z71.

And to the OP ... follow what the doc said...