well..... i did it!!!

[link81]

i pretty much did it, i bought a 2001 sea doo utopia. well, i don't quite have it in hand yet, but the loan is approved and the water test is tomorrow.

I found the boat on craigslist, owner was originally asking 6800 for it. I went out and looked at after work, and oddly enough it was being sold by a guy i used to work with. really nice surprise. the boat is definitally a 10 year old boat, it has some nicks and scratches, and the vinyl has seen better days. but i was expecting that going into it. Good news though was the engine, it looked pretty much brand new. i was really surprised with the condition of the engine. at one point it has had a rebuild, all the head bolts were missing paint like they's been taken off. He let me do compression on all 6 cylinders. its hard to say exactly what the compression was because the rubber o-ring split on my tester, but each cylinder was between 120 and 150. pretty happy with that seeing how there was really no seal. Boat started right up, and smoked wonderfully, telling me that the oil injection is somehow still operating. i will be changing over to pre-mix though in any case.

The boat still has the original grate, so i prepared my wife for that expense. also will be changing gear fluids before too long.

the impeller looks pretty good, i inspected it with a flashlight from both sides. might build it up with jb weld this winter. (The slip ring that is) but its really not bad at all.

i have no clue on the hours, but seeing on where the compression hours are, there can't be that many.

after talking to the guy for a while, he told me he's give it to me for 5500, heck i though that 6800 was fair, so i was more then happy with 55.

when taking down the information for the boat, i found out that its serial number 4. so i guess that means that that i have one of the oldest, if not the oldest utopia in existence right?

anything i should keep an eye out for tomorrow? other then the obvious stiff like temp, general engine sound, take off, top speed, steering???

i cannot say thank you enough to this forum, without it i would have had no realy idea of the specific things to look for on these boats. thank you to everyone that has posted.


now i need to research into gelcoat refurbishing/polishing.......

 

[Dr Honda]

Congrats on the new toy. I hop it all works out. And... if you do get it... make sure you stick around here, and help out when you can. This board is good, because of the members.

I have a couple thoughts/concerns.


1) The compression numbers have a huge spread. Normally, the Merc engines have lower numbers (around 135) and they should only be 5% from each other. If it hasn't been used this year... it could be left-over oil. I would check the compression again, after the water ride. (That will burn off any extras) BUT... if you have 150 in one cyl... and 120 in another... that's not good.

2) If the engine was rebuilt... you may not need to remove the oil injection. The new style gear is good. But that one is up to you.

3) I'm not sure what you mean about the S/N being "4".


4) on the water test... it should start easy. It should RE-START easy. So... after 5~10 min of running. Turn it off, and sit for about 5~6 min. Then... try to start it. The merc engine is smooth for a 2-stroke... so if it's rough... something could be wrong.


5) We can worry about making it look good after you get it. I've brought a bunch back from the dead.



Good luck with the water trials.

 

[link81]

ah.... sorry, i didn't mean to imply that there was a big spread across the compression numbers. after i noticed that my o-ring had split i was just really looking for a general compression number that was higher then 120 and lower then 150. Telling me that the engine was in pretty good shape. Once i get it here, i'm going to put a new o-ring on my tester and get accurate numbers.

2) is there a way to tell what gear is in there? can i pull off the injection pump and look in there with a flash light to tell the difference? if its a new style gear, i'll keep it.

3) the vin for the boat is XXXX-004X001 Telling me its the fourth boat built in 2001

4) beautiful, ill check it, thanks

5) of course


beautiful work you did on that islandia by the way, heck of a job on that block

 

[Dr Honda]

1) OK... I now understand about the gauge.

2) There isn't any easy way to tell, but the gear should have been replaced during the rebuild. The only way to know, now... is to pull the pump, and the shaft. Then use a a bore scope, and look inside.

I like oil injection, and after my rebuild, I put my pump back on. BUT... I installed the new gear. I also don't mind "Pre-mix" if the oil system has a known issue... But I didn't want to deal with trying to keep a good mix on the 50 gallon fuel tank of my islandia. I think the boat you are looking at is 40 gal. (could be a pain)



So... how did the water test go? Did you close the deal?? I use to NOT be a fan of the Merc drive... but I was out on the water all day yesterday... and it really is a nice system.

 

[link81]

i did, woo hoo it was a blast. my 5 year old was a little unsure of it. but he hasn't been on many boats, unless you count my parents sailboat or my grandparents 50 footer on lake Michigan.

she takes off pretty well, not quite as well as a IO boat, but not too shabby. Speedo says she was doing 45, 3 adults. not sure, could have been pretty close. I left my phone in the car, so i couldnt check it with the GPS.

took a second to start at the launch, but nothing that i would consider abnormal for any other carb'd engine.

once warm, you just had to touch the key and she started right up.

Idled well, tracked straight, steering was tight and centered. "docking mode" or whatever its called works perfect. Slight pourposing at top speed, but not extreme.

mechanically, she acts like a new boat. New upholstery and a couple minor things, and she'll look line a new boat also.



so all i can do with the gear is look at it? they didn't change the material and therefore the color or anything? I don't have a borescope, will have to look into that when i have her here.

 

[Dr Honda]

GREAT!!! Glad to hear it !!

For some reason... I thought you said it had the 240 EFI engine. But it sounds like it's running just fine for the 210. (with carbs) I'd say the speed was very close with the weight, and power. Just an FYI... when you get parts... there were 3 engines in the Utopia that year. 210 with carbs... 240 EFI... and the 200 Optimax. (that's a Di engine)

Speaking of parts... don't even ask a Seadoo dealer about them. If you need engine/pump parts... go right to a Mercury dealer. All you need is your serial numbers. (one for the pump, and one for the engine)


Oh... and... with the speed posted... I would say a compression check is a moot point. BUT... it is good for reference, if you own a gauge.

The oil pump gear is a wear part... and it WILL be replaced during a rebuild, assuming it's done at a reputable shop. They did change the materials they were made of. Originally... It was just a thermoplastic of some kind. The newer gear is a glass filled nylon. Unfortunately... they are almost the same color... so you have to get up an personal to check it. (it's a texture difference)

You could simply ask who did the rebuild and when. If it came from a shop that does rebuilds... then you are safe. If it's a local shop... you will have to call, and ask if they change it.

Personally... with the known issues of that gear... it would be silly to open the engine, and not replace it.

Post up some pics once you get a chance.

 

[link81]

its definitally the 210 carb engine.

Bummer thing on the gear. Unfortunately the owner has no idea about the history of the boat. He told me that it bounced around from marina to marina. Only reason i think it had a rebuild, is because the paint was missing on the head bolts. I am going to get the prior owner's name and see if i can find out more about the history. But either way i'm getting the boat, History doesn't mean as much to me as current condition. And it has passed every test i threw at it with flying colors.

yup, aware that seadoo won't touch these engines, but thats fine with me, the only person that touches my engines (any of them) is me.

right now the only pictures i have are the ones from the craigslist add, i'll take some better ones when i get her home and cleaned up.

thanks for the tips of things to look for, made me alot more confident going into this.....

 

[Dr Honda]

Paint chips aren't a good way of knowing of a rebuild. Normally... a "Rebuild Shop" will paint it after it's put back together. BUT... it is a common practice, with the old timer outboard guys, to pull the heads, and clean the carbon. So... the head bolts could be missing paint from maintenance.

Once you get your compression gauge fixed... check it... and write it down some where. It will be your base line.


If you can't get a positive ID on the rebuild... then pull the oil system.


If you bought it from a Marina that services Merc's... ask them to hook up the DDS system, and read the total time on the ignition unit.

 

[link81]

Fair enough. Good point. It's entirely possible that that's what was done. I'm leaning with your theory on that, be ause now that I think about it, those were the only bolts missing paint.

Private sale, not marina sale.

Bye bye oil injection. I just wish there was a way to tell wich gear it was. Bummer.

I will have it read at some point by a merc dealer. Or I'm planning on a dash mounted reader at some point.

 

[Dr Honda]

If you really want to keep the oil system... there are some inexpensive bore scopes out there. Harbor Fright has a few... and if you look on ebay... I think I've seen a few that go into the USB port on a laptop.


If you do try to look in there.... the top is the old gear, and the bottom is the new. You can see that the old gear, is smooth/shiny, and the new gear has a fiber texture in it.

 

[link81]

wow, from those pictures there's definitely a difference.

the only reason i would like to keep the oil injection is convenience. But i will not put my boat at risk for that. Do these gears slowly wear out? or do they look brand new until they gernade? Depending on how big of a process it is, i might make it a regular inspection item........

cant wait to get this thing home so i can really climb all over it and studying it.

 

[Dr Honda]

...... Do these gears slowly wear out? or do they look brand new until they gernade? ......

That's the real question. We don't know for sure.

I bought my boat with a bad engine. It came from a rental shop... and I figured it was a oil issue. In my case... I was wrong. My engine threw a rod. AND... my oil gear looked perfect. It only had a small amount of wear.

The general summery is... the bushings and shaft tolerances are too tight from the factory. That's not an issue until you overheat the engine. When that happens, the shaft gets tight, and the load on the gear is TOO high. In turn... it wears it to a failure point. The new gear can take the extra load. But... if you don't ever overheat your engine... it shouldn't be an issue.

On this forum... we have seen gears, that were almost gone... but the pump was still moving some oil.


If you look in... and the gear looks good, and the shaft isn't galled... it should be fine. But... if it's the new gear... that will indicate a rebuild.

 

[link81]

And from what I've read, the oil pump dosnt produce any real pressure or flow, so there isn't an easy way to install a flow meter or pressure safety. Am I correct?

How about temp? Is there an easy way to install a temp gauge? I read some of them have a sensor installed and the wire run, but no gauge. Not sure about what years that is.

As always, thanks for your help.

 

[Dr Honda]

The wire is in the engine, and the wire loom. On my engine... there is 2 temp senders. On yours... I will have to look. But, I'm sure there is a sender of some kind.

Regardless... since the wire is there... you could easily install a sender, and a gauge. There are a few places on the block a sender could be threaded into.


The oil pump does make some pressure, but very low flow. We are talking about a few ml of oil over a few min. I would have to look up the test on the merc... but on the Rotax engines... the test is spin the pump for 3 min, at 3000 RPM (with a drill) and you should get 15 ml. Because of that... you would have a hard time putting a flow meter on it.

Now... the stupid thing is... the earlier Merc outboards, that had the 2.5 ltr engine... they had a sensor on the pump shaft, and if it stopped spinning... it would trip the oil alarm. But... in the late 90's... they took it off. If you look at your engine block... the spot is still on the block for the sensor. (but it's not machined open) I've often thought about putting one on.




*****EDIT*****


Yes... there is already a sender on your engine for a temp gauge. It's the tan wire. You can get a simple Merc gauge from ebay... and hook it to the tan wire in the helm.

 

[link81]

Regardless... since the wire is there... you could easily install a sender, and a gauge. There are a few places on the block a sender could be threaded into.


Now... the stupid thing is... the earlier Merc outboards, that had the 2.5 ltr engine... they had a sensor on the pump shaft, and if it stopped spinning... it would trip the oil alarm. But... in the late 90's... they took it off. If you look at your engine block... the spot is still on the block for the sensor. (but it's not machined open) I've often thought about putting one on.

thats what i wanted to hear about temperature.....

as far as the oil, thats an interesting thought. new sensor, drill out the hole, and i'm thinking a new shaft, i'm assuming that it works via a prox to prove rotation.........

 

[Dr Honda]

Did you see my edit? The sender is on the head already. It's the tan wire.


Yes... it's a prox sender... or a reluctor/pickup style. I will have to look at a parts explosion on the older outboards. But... I think the oil warning box can still interface it.

 

[2cycle psycho]

Link... I know the boat your talking about. I ended up getting the 205 that was posted at the same time! Blown engine, got a short block from Cali and switched everything over. I'm launching at lock 7 tomorrow afternoon. Not sure if your nearby but ima be practicing docking there ( these jet boats are touchy!) Its real quiet and i already spoke to one of the lock operators and there cool with it, its got rubber sides there too. Congrats by the way.