Unknown issues - too many questions

[steve on the water]

I have a 97 Challenger 1800 which is (still) having issues. It did not make it on the water last year due the birth of a son. Very good and a little bad. I was having a power issue toward the end of the previous season which was not completely fixed with a carb rebuild. I caved in brought it in for service. I figured my time was better spent with my son than trouble shooting the issue. So they had issues getting a spark and claimed that the lanyard and MPM may have been corrupted since they had no power for more than a year. Is this even possible? They do not have the capability to reflash the MPM or reprogram the lanyard, but suggest this as a next step. So they are not getting any power to the engines and can diagnose no further. Could a failing MPM have been causing powering issues when I last had it on the water. It seemed to bog down if accelerating slowly, but would take off like a rocket if you could get it past that point. Thanks in advance. If this can not be diagnosed and fixed in the near-term, my wife will make sure there is one more older Sea-doo for sale.

Steve

 

[Ankeneyou]

It sounds like the shop doesn't really know what they are doing and will likely start changing parts instead of finding the issue first which will get very expensive for you.

As for the bogging, this definitely sounds like a fuel delivery problem. We're both sets of carbs rebuilt with genuine Mikuni kits? Chinese kits are poorly made and will cause bogging issues.

I'm confused on the no power to the engines comment. Are they saying the engines do turn over but are not producing spark or not turning over at all? No spark can be one of several different things (coil, magneto/pickup coil, mpem, plug wires, CDI, etc).

 

[steve on the water]

They are stating that there is no spark on either engine. It is hard for me to let anyone else work on the boat but my time is otherwise occupied right now. I actually enjoyed troubleshooting issues and working on the boat in the past.

The port engine ran smooth previously. The stbd engine carbs had been rebuilt with Mikuni kits. Other than the mpem, quality parts for this boat seem to be relatively inexpensive.

I wish I had time to do this myself.

 

[steve on the water]

I guess I was confused. They were getting an inconsistent fault code until they fixed a grounding issue with the DESS post. Now they are consistently getting 7 beeps. From what I have read, this "ghost code" has been fixed in a wide assortment of ways. Some include filling the fuel tank, replacing the fuel pickup and replacing the neutral safety switch. It seems that this could be an expensive issue to have a shop diagnose. The fuel tank is full but it has sat for more than a year so it is probably bad but, it won't even turned over. If it had turned over I could see a fuel line or filter clogged, but this sounds like an electrical issue to my untrained ear. Maybe bypassing the neutral safety switch is a good starting point. Any thoughts?

 

[snikwad003]

That's a good way to test but it won't rev over 3500 if it thinks it's in neutral. So key on and 2 beeps? Or no? What happens next?

 

[steve on the water]

Unfortunately I am witnessing this personally, only being told what is happening. The boat is about 1.5 hours away and not easy to just swing by and see for myself. Currently they put the lanyard on the post and get 7 beeps and nothing more. I am thinking that it would be good to check all the fuses. I am not sure if power is getting to the engines at all. Is there a good test point to start with to see if I have any signal at all coming from the MPEM? I will try to dig through the manual tonight and see if I can make any sense of it. Thanks

 

[snikwad003]

Yeah that makes it tough. 8 beeps would be corrupt mpem memory, I don't know how accurate the diagnostic beeps are and 7 is not listed

 

[steve on the water]

Status update. I am told the advanced MPEM diagnostic test gives 2 short news and the engine turns over but does not fire. So they are getting power to the starter but not to the plugs. It sounds to me that the MPEM is okay but maybe there is an issue with the wiring harness or a fuse. Does anyone have an idea how to best attack this? My first thought is to check the wiring as close to the MPEM as possible maybe even inside the larger casing and see if there is power. Are there any specific test points and what should I expect to read? Thanks for the help this far.

 

[BoLongo]

Steve, You have your boat at the wrong shop. Pick it up and bring it home before they take anymore of your money.

With a good multi-meter and patience you should be able to track down grounding or power issues. Fully charge the battery and make sure it is still good coming out of storage. Clean your ground connections. The last few pages of the manual are the wiring diagrams.

Your MPEM should not go bad sitting in storage, but you cannot service the MPEM, once they go bad they are trash. The MPEMs are getting harder to find. I heard about a working MPEM for a Challenger 1800 selling for $1,500, but I agree with you; if the motors are turning over the MPEM should be working.

If you decide to take it to another shop make sure they have someone who is really good with electrical circuits.

I probably would not tell the wife about a used MPEM costing $1,500; it will be :seeya: boat.

 

[steve on the water]

Does anyone know of a good shop within a couple hours of Boston? Right now the boat is in New Hampshire, but I am willing to move it if it gets the boat back on the water. Unfortunately a one year old in the house limits my time to troubleshoot anything. Thanks

 

[nickj718]

This is 100% a grounding issue. Have they tested your battery? Sometimes a battery can go bad causing a short to ground. Did they preform a load test on the battery? If they say yes ask for a print out other wise call bs. Not saying its your issue for sure but i have seen it in other boats and cars

 

[steve on the water]

Are there any specific circuits to start with that tend to have issues more often? I am amazed that the wiring diagram fits on one page. I am mechanically inclined but not so great with electronics. I can read the diagram, but not sure how to trouble shoot the issue. I can definitely check continuity but not sure this is the right approach. Any help is appreciated.

 

[steve on the water]

I am still trying to find a shop that knows these boats and is wiling to wok on it. A shop 1.5 hours on me won't touch a boat older than 2007 but referred me to another shop but they won't touch it either. I may bring it home and try to troubleshoot it myself. Would a grounding issue pull the power low enough to allow the starter to spin but not provide a spark? I need to rule out the MPEM, because that will sink the boat. The advanced diagnostics indicates it should be good, but it is odd that both engines are having the same issue. I appreciate any and all thoughts. One holiday weekend shot!

 

[steve on the water]

Update. Still dead-in-the-water. Connectivity and grounds have all tested good. It appears there is no power coming out of either STBD or PORT CPU, so my untrained analysis is a dead MPEM. I am pretty sure this is one boat that will soon get listed as nearly free to the first person willing to haul it away.

 

[Danosll]

steve when you connect your lanyard do the gauges come to life?

 

[Danosll]

iv had issues with mpem's in the past. i've discovered that there not that bad to work on. here are some pics of one i repaired that was an intermittant issue. unless someone boosted your boat or has experienced reverse polarity. its probably repairable. wires into mpem. I cut a square directly behind entry point and BAD solder joints(after 20 years of bouncing around) resoldered and good as new

 

[steve on the water]

How did you know which solder joint to go after?

 

[Danosll]

How did you know which solder joint to go after?

In that case it was intermittant and getting worse.if my memory is correct No power to solenoid. Yellow red. Power going in to mpem none coming out of yellow/ red

 

[steve on the water]

I am going to make an attempt to diagnose the issue again on Saturday. If I have no luck and it loos like an MPEM issue, I may try to make a repair as described above. I am hesitant to declare the MPEM dead, but once I reach that conclusion I may attempt the repair described above. Nothing like a little brain surgery on the boat. What would be the best product to seal the hole? Wish the patient luck.

 

[Danosll]

I have come across a few all pretty much. the same issue. i use a hot knife to cut it open clean out the potting material .a few people i have spoke too try to do it the opposite way . i find it much easier from the rear directly behind wires. make your hole a little bigger then the one i made it might reveal more issues. i use clear silicone to seal it up, urethane is better but not necessary. good luck
Dan
PS a week ago i would have told you to send it to me i would have a go at it. but unfortunately i will be selling my challenger 1800 this week. which is how i would test it. whoever buys it gets a great boat .i just redid everything for this summer. 2 new top ends , new pumps. new graphics. interior redone. I bought an 06 speedster 200 430hp.

 

[steve on the water]

So I think it is a power connection. I picked up the boat and towed it to my in-laws to work on it. I put the lanyard on and it didn't want to start. The fuel looked low so i hit the reserve switch, pulled the choke and it started right up. Perhaps driving on the bumpy roads closed the connection. Definitely worth a look. No brain surgery yet.

Low fuel wouldn't cut the power to the coil, correct?

Thanks for the help.