Talk of blown engines are freaking me out

[bmat]

Should I just run it premixed? What are the warning signs that the oil pump broke?

 

[Dr Honda]

What are the warning signs that the oil pump broke?

A blown engine is the big sign. (lol)

Seriously though...

I'm new to the Merc world, and it seems like there is no warning on this one. The plastic gear inside the engine is not serviceable, or easy to see. When it starts to "Strip" then the pump stops, and you loose oil. From what I can tell... it just gives out after about 10 years.

Now... you may have seen my thread about my Islandia project, and I'm not sure what caused my busted rod yet. In my case... the rod cap is missing, and I think the bolts just broke. (not an oil issue) Regardless... I'm on the fence with the OEM oil injection. The pump itself is very reliable... but the system has too many failure points. I don't like that it's a pulse feed up to the secondary tank. I also don't like that the system is variable, but is feeding the vapor separator tank. (Mix response time is too slow)

I'm hoping to spend some time tonight taking my engine apart. If there are any signs of the internal gear being warn... it's not going back in the engine. But, I don't want to deal with mixing a 50 gallon tank.

 

[igneous]

I've been wondering what shape my oil drive gear is in and how long it'll last. Got the boat off repo and it was neglected, so not sure on how many hrs. are on engine--or if newly rebuilt. I found another outboard forum that said same thing about oil inj. response time. Going from ~1500 rpm to 5-6000 in 5 seconds has to result in an oil-starved condition. I've ordered the block off parts from Jamestown, but haven't decided if I'm gonna premix or go with this: http://www.marinesolutionswi.com/index.htm

 

[bmat]

I will look for your thread. I may just strip it down and replace the worm gear now that I dont need to replace anything. Or just premix and shut it off at idle and do it the worm over the winter. To bad I havent seen how to add the newer electric oil pump, most likely to much computer stuff.

 

[Dr Honda]

Personally... I wouldn't touch that electric kit. I'm sure it's expensive, and it's not a guarantee of engine health. It has electronic parts that can fail, and it looks like it has a "Brushed" motor. Generally, they don't like to spin a low RPM's. Regardless... brushes don't last forever. They should have used a brushless system.

IF... I am keeping an oil injection system... I'll stick with the mechanical unit. We already know it's projected life. I wish they would have taken it directly of the crank, like an 800 Rotax.

 

[mike's islandia]

if the worm gear goes and you dont catch it you will be spending $3000 to $5000 on a replacement power head.it may cause a little more smoke at low rpms because it delivers less oil at low rpms.I just like the peace of mind. all i did was take the hose lose from the brass fitting on the left side of engine and run it over to the reserve unit with a new hose a t-fitting , then just capped off the brass fitting,not sure if this is the righht way but it seems to work

 

[El Toro 33809]

I'm not the "glass is half empty" kind of guy, but the more I read about the oil system on the Merc's, the more I freak out too. Ours is 10 years old. The Mercury dealer down the street is not afraid to work on a jet boat, but could not get an hour reading. I like the way it runs though.

Igneous, how much is system isnthe link you posted? Does the Marine Solutions system vary the injection ratio?

 

[Dr Honda]

Igneous, how much is system isnthe link you posted? Does the Marine Solutions system vary the injection ratio?

I'd like to know the price too.

It looks like it's variable. It's using the stock oil pump on top of a "Servo" drive. Also... it looks like the "Brain Box" is just an ESC that's reading the motor RPM's... and then translating that to the servo motor. So... the drive is variable... and it still has the cable hooked up.

The thing is... since it's DC servo... it has a second position sensor on the drive. If it was a brushless motor... the ESC would know the RPM without a second feedback sensor. (a more simple, and rugged system)

Did I mention, I do electronic design too?? (lol)

 

[El Toro 33809]

Thanks Tony. I will keep my eyes on this thread and see what developes next. It sounds like at first you wouldn't touch that kit, but now may consider it.

 

[bmat]

However, it would be variable to the size of the motor? I dont think there is an easy solution. Do you need to remove the motor to replace the worm?

 

[Racereddie]

However, it would be variable to the size of the motor? I dont think there is an easy solution. Do you need to remove the motor to replace the worm?

Just a note on these engines, it seems that the year of the boat may mean that the boat carries the powerhead from the previous year. My 2003 Utopia 240 EFI carries a 2002 Powerhead. So the 2002 boats may carry the 2001 power head. That year they made 5 verions.

S240J301C
S240J301D
S240J301S
S240J30YD
S240J30YS

What I have gathered from diagrams, for the 2001 engines the YD and YS versions, are the ones with the gear driven pump. The 1C/1D/1S versions have the electric driven oil pump. The other key notes are the placement of the remote oil tank on the front of the engine and the absence of the alternator on the port side, that means gear driven pump. If the remote oil tank in on the port side and the alternator is there then it seems that the oil pump is electric.

Eddie

 

[buckeye_paul]

bmat,

I was in the same "boat" haha! After thinking it over I decided to premix. Just bypassed the oil injection today. I can't tell you how relieved I feel. Yes there is more smoke at idle. I DON'T CARE! I'm not going at idle for very long anyway! You can buy the electric motor system, but their warranty is only for two years. Also, their "warranty" probably only covers the replacement of their parts. Not your motor. If that were the case it would would be called a "guarantee".

Peace

 

[Dr Honda]

............. It sounds like at first you wouldn't touch that kit, but now may consider it.

Me? No way. Just a more expensive way to have a failure.

 

[El Toro 33809]

Eddie, how would I determine which engine is in our 2001 Challenger? It has no alternator and has a small oil tank on the front. Thanks.

 

[Racereddie]

Eddie, how would I determine which engine is in our 2001 Challenger? It has no alternator and has a small oil tank on the front. Thanks.

You can look for the serial number on the front starboard side, it might be just below your remote oil tank. Mine says Eng S/N OE 410744 - 240JD and then May 2002.

On the starboard side forward, where the engine connects to the pump you can also see the electric pump, as it is outside the engine. I will try to get a picture this afternoon

 

[igneous]

Yes, I agree it's just something else to fail. It also states on one link that the idle ratio is 80:1. I sent an email to them and received back a note that gave me a phone # to call tonite. Their list of models do not have the 240 EFI sportjet listed, so I wonder if one of the other applications works. I think these were about $500 (from another forum inquiry), but asked them to update their website with prices.
Racereddie's comments about different versions got me wondering if anyone has replaced mechanical pump on earlier version with a new merc electric one? Or would that require ECU replacement?

 

[DomsX20]

For what it’s worth, any part on a motor can fail... Especially a 2 stroke. Bearings, bolts, and yes the worm gear...... I just rebuilt my engine and replaced my failed worm gear with the newer part. I don’t have any regrets. I also don’t think there have been any reports of the new worm gear failing... If someone wants to spend $500 on an electronic oil injection, it does not solve anything... I considered it when rebuilding my motor but decided against it. The electronic injection has many more parts that may fail and cause the exact same effect as a failed worm gear.

Let’s face it, if you have a 10 year old 2 stroke motor with a lot of hours, you’re on borrowed time. It’s only a matter of time before you throw a rod or have a bearing seize.... Best idea is to freshen up the motor with new bearings and yes, a new worm gear BEFORE you have a catastrophic failure that causes a major rebuild.

 

[Racereddie]

Eddie, how would I determine which engine is in our 2001 Challenger? It has no alternator and has a small oil tank on the front. Thanks.

Tim
Here are the pictures of the starboard side forward part of the engine.


In the third picture you can also see the location of the serial number.

Eddie

 

[igneous]

The part for the 240 efi sj is EOI-E3, which is listed on website. Runs $559 + s/h. One advantage it has is a rotation sensor and alarm, which should alert you before overheat alarm starts.
I may check condition of oil gear this year.