Support or no

[NX EXA]

If this is outside the realm of rules (and I just don't know) then by all means delete the thread. I'm just curious of the thoughts of others of the situation.

Views of the "Truckers to shut down America" to restore the Constitution.

And for the record, I am no means a political freak. I try to avoid political stuff. This one obviously has my interest.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I think if they actually go thru with it, the impact will be pretty dam noticeable...

a hell of a lot more noticeable than a government "shutdown"

I really haven't researched their position, but i'm probably in support.

 

[NX EXA]

It was initially for shutting down DC but I've gathered that truckers around the USA will shut down for 3 days. This will be an impact. I'm in support as well. Guess we'll wait and see. The shutdown dates are 11, 12, 13 October and they are calling for help outside of truckers. I won't post any links that are outside of the forum. I will leave that up to the individuals that are curious and they can look it up.

 

[LouDoo]

Hell, if it shuts down DC it's gotta be good!!!!!

Lou

 

[Coastiejoe]

If this is outside the realm of rules (and I just don't know) then by all means delete the thread. I'm just curious of the thoughts of others of the situation.

Views of the "Truckers to shut down America" to restore the Constitution.

And for the record, I am no means a political freak. I try to avoid political stuff. This one obviously has my interest.

You are in the off-topic area so you are good to go.

As long as members show respect to others no matter their thoughts, that is all that matters.

 

[Dr Honda]

Well.... 2 thoughts come to mind....


1) One person's rights, only extend to the point of effecting another person's rights.

2) As Americans... we have the right to peaceful protest.


Reflecting on that........

If the teamsters (Truckers) decided to protest by not driving.... then their actions could spark NON-PEACEFUL retaliation. Also, it could cause a panic since people may be worried about getting esentail items. (ie, shortages of food)


So... thinking of that... the potential harm (to other peoples rights) could outweigh the message trying to be delivered. This is kind of the same thing when police go on strike. They still have to do their job.




SO..... with that said.... if they want to stop deviling new cars, TV's, Movies.... etc.... and still assure delivery of needed personal and household goods... then that's fine. But if they wan't to do a full shutdown... it could cause anarchy, and civil unrest.



I haven't dug into the reasons of how and why the GOV wants to do a shutdown.... but IN NO WAY SHOULD A VITAL ORGANIZATION DO A SUPPORT SHUTDOWN!!!! Honestly... that's just stupid. If they want to help support, and still do their jobs... that's fine.


But in my eye's... this is just another reason why Union's have killed America. The big-boy's in the union will get their message across... but it's really at the expense of the workers. See... the Big-Boy's will still get paid since they are on salary... but the drivers will not get paid as long as the strike is on.

 

[NX EXA]

It's actually not the government wanting to do the shutdown. It's all from the truckers sick of the low low pay and the governments trample on the Constitution. I'm sure there are other things as well but that's the bulk of it.

 

[KayakNFly]

First I've heard of this. I'll have to look into it.
I think our constitution has been trampled but I don't think this would ultimately fix the issue. The problem lies in our culture and work ethic and that translates into how people vote for all the idiots in office. The users are outnumbering the producers and voting to take things from one group of people and give it to another group.
Most people could care less about their rights or what's happening in the government as long as their favorite TV show is on that night and they can be entertained on their smart phones all day long. It also comes down to lack of education. If you asked people what type of government we have 80% or more (including our current president) would say we have a democracy. We don't. It's a constitutional republic and there are huge differences. A democracy protects and favors the majority while trampling the minority. A republic upholds individual rights. Franklin said "we have a republic, if you can keep it." I'm afraid we've lost it and will never get it back.

 

[LouDoo]

I find it interesting that one of the groups that put the current administration in power (the teamsters), are heading up this protest. An old adage comes to mind, "be careful what you wish for".

Lou

 

[Coastiejoe]

My views on unions...

At one point they were CRITICAL. They served a very important part in getting us to where we are today. In fact, they did such a good job that many laws have been put in place. With RARE exception unions do not need to exist in regards to work place safety, hour regulations, child labor, discrimination ect ect. And why is this,,, they did sucha good job years ago.

Now,,, all that said, because of the quality job they did in the past they almost have to LOOK for things to do. They are a business just like McDonalds or GM or Chrysler. They need to make money to financially support their roster. Because of laws being on the books they need to find other ways to justify their existence.

Again, I think they were super important in our past. But not so much now.

As an example, had a friend that was a manager of a shop. He caught an employee stealing money from the cash drawer. The worker was a member of a union. Thus, the union got involved and produced "fine print" stating that the employee gets three strikes against him. Soo,, he stole money, can do one other thing of a serious nature, and then has to be good as he was employed under a clause of three strikes...

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I find it interesting that one of the groups that put the current administration in power (the teamsters), are heading up this protest. An old adage comes to mind, "be careful what you wish for".

Lou

i could be wrong but aren't the teamsters pissed off because they didn't get an exemption from Obamacare ? or something along those lines ?

 

[KayakNFly]

i could be wrong but aren't the teamsters pissed off because they didn't get an exemption from Obamacare ? or something along those lines ?

Yes,
The union president has sent a letter to congress and the POTUS about it not being what congress promised and that they would get to keep their current health care plans but their union members are currently loosing their plans and cost are going up. Funny to me because what did they expect? Does money grow on trees, and doctors work for free?
My health care premiums went up 48% last year. This year they are going to go up ~60%.... Super affordable for the "affordable care act." :/

 

[Dr Honda]

My views on unions...

At one point they were CRITICAL. They served a very important part in getting us to where we are today. In fact, they did such a good job that many laws have been put in place. With RARE exception unions do not need to exist in regards to work place safety, hour regulations, child labor, discrimination ect ect. And why is this,,, they did sucha good job years ago.

Now,,, all that said, because of the quality job they did in the past they almost have to LOOK for things to do. They are a business just like McDonalds or GM or Chrysler. They need to make money to financially support their roster. Because of laws being on the books they need to find other ways to justify their existence.

Again, I think they were super important in our past. But not so much now.

As an example, had a friend that was a manager of a shop. He caught an employee stealing money from the cash drawer. The worker was a member of a union. Thus, the union got involved and produced "fine print" stating that the employee gets three strikes against him. Soo,, he stole money, can do one other thing of a serious nature, and then has to be good as he was employed under a clause of three strikes...

Yep.... I agree 100%. The UNION needs to make money, and they give the illusion of protection to the people under them. But, in reallity, they dont' care, and only want to cover their own pay check.


There is (was) a shop just up from mine. Aero-Dicasting. They were casting the engine cases, heads, and a few other parts for the Harley Evo and twin cam engines. They also did some of the rough machining. At one time, they were producing so much... that there was 2 dedicated trucks running from Latrobe, to the Harley plant in York PA.

So... all of the sudden, they went on strike. The employees were picketing for over a year. The Union told the employees that Harley would back them, and make "The evil, fat-cat owners" pay the "Fair Wage" they are looking for.

So... after all of this was said and done... Harley got tired of the delays... and basically told them to go back to work, or they would find a new casting shop !!!!!!!

A girl I was working with at the time, told me her mom worked there. And the sticking point of strike was all about WHO WOULD PAY $0.25 FOR THE INCREASE IN HEALTH CARE !!!!!!! AND... that almost all the employees wanted to go back to work, because they were not eligible for any gov help (Welfare, unemployment, etc) and they were going broke because they hadn't gotten a paycheck an a very long time.


After Harley told them to get back to work... the Union backed down. But... 3 months later... the company went out of biz, and then was re-opened under new owners, and a new name. ALSO... there is no Union in place.


Like I said... the only people who get hurt in a strike (anymore), is the employees.



FYI... PA is a "Right to work" state. SO... if I get a job somewhere, and a union is in control... I do not have to join, if I don't want to. And guess what... since I'm an HONEST person... In don't need the protection of the Union to keep my job.

 

[KayakNFly]

Hostess?!? Look what the union did for those workers.

 

[Dr Honda]

.........
My health care premiums went up 48% last year. This year they are going to go up ~60%.... Super affordable for the "affordable care act." :/

Times are tough.

When I left my "Day job"... and opened my own shop... My monthly heath care went from $150/mo to almost $1k /mo. AND... I was just informed that my policy is getting canceled, and I have to find a new one starting Oct 1st. (is what it is)

 

[KayakNFly]

Ouch! Policy canceled!?! That's crazy that they can just cancel that and with short notice.
Good luck finding something! Hope it's not crazy expensive!

 

[Coastiejoe]

Times are tough.

When I left my "Day job"... and opened my own shop... My monthly heath care went from $150/mo to almost $1k /mo. AND... I was just informed that my policy is getting canceled, and I have to find a new one starting Oct 1st. (is what it is)

From the health care aspect alone, this is where being a Fed Employee is is very helpful. Every now and then one company may pull out of a state, but you have HUNDREDS of options.

And,, being in the military is not a bad thing either. True, your base pay may no that great depending on your rate/rank. But the housing and health care can't be beat..

 

[Jims5543]

From the health care aspect alone, this is where being a Fed Employee is is very helpful. Every now and then one company may pull out of a state, but you have HUNDREDS of options.

And,, being in the military is not a bad thing either. True, your base pay may no that great depending on your rate/rank. But the housing and health care can't be beat..

So being a government employee, who is using the mass of this countries taxes in order to survive, gets the good healthcare and the people paying your way get screwed?

I do not have health insurance, my wife and I lead very healthy lives and since I am self employed got sick of dishing out $1K a month for health insurance. This was over 5 years ago, money saved to date? $60,000 money spent in health care, 1 trip to the hospital to treat out younger son for pneumonia (after he was misdiagnosed and we could have avoided this) hospital bill was $15,000 that they wanted to bill to out Blue Cross "discount plan" which was not insurance and only cost us $180 a month. Of course it was denied, so they came after us and told us the cash price was $7500 or 1/2 what the insurance was billed (and would have paid if a full policy, see the problem here) when we balked at some of the charges (which were BS) they "gave us" the medicare price which was $5000. I told my wife to pay it, she pushed it even further and got interest free payments for 1 year.

We just tried to get a catastrophe insurance policy with Blue Cross, after a inquisition with them discovering a MRI on my back 10+ years ago they finally offered us a policy where we had to sign off and agree to exclude any back issue claims for the rest of my life. The rate was about $600 a month and the deductible was $10,000.

I told my wife not to sign anything where we agree to not be covered, if Obama gets his care plan through they will be forced to cover preexisting conditions (my back is a bulging disk injury from 1999) and signing off that they do not have to cover now could be a problem in the future.

So no health insurance for me. Enjoy your health insurance though and hopefully see how broken our healthcare system is.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

edit...


I had a big long response for Jim but deleted 3 paragraphs of comments and criticism of your post, and just said FK it, and shook my head in frustration, its just too wrong on so many levels.

I'll just leave it with this... If your son's problem had turned out to be $175,000 or $275,000 , which is not unrealistic BTW, you'd be filing for bankruptcy right now, and blaming everybody but yourself for your financial problems for years to come.

 

[KayakNFly]

And....
You wouldn't be able to pay, which means everyone with insurance ends up splitting the cost, which is why it's so expensive in the first place.
My step-mom is the head ER Nurse at a hospital and she says only about 30% of er patients have insurance. Over half those that don't have insurance never pay a dime. The hospital doesn't get reimbursed for those costs by anyone and can't grow money on trees, so those of us with insurance end up paying that much more for everyone without insurance. One of many reasons its so expensive...
Like my car insurance bill. Half the bill every month is for "uninsured/underinsured coverage." Which is BS since its a law for everyone to have insurance. But in my state they estimate up to 40% of drivers are uninsured sometime throughout the year. So I end up paying for it. Pisses me off every month.....

So... Get insurance and save yourself and the rest of us money in the long run.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

yip.

and the ACA will only make it worse, since the penalties are so low, adverse selection will be even higher since the ramifications will have less of an impact. The system is flawed as it is now, but will be even worse when the ACA kick's in full force.

 

[LouDoo]

I think the following quote made by a great American over 200 years ago is even more relevant now then it was then.

"Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence."

Thomas Jefferson

 

[Jims5543]

I am not going to quote everybody I am just going to post this.

I am trying to get Health insurance since good health insurance like government employees have is impossible to afford for the average person we are at least trying to cover ourselves in the event of something like a $175K hit (which BTW would end up being a 60K cash hit which I would gladly pay out of the money I have put in savings NOT paying 12K a years in permiums.)

What rattled us was the events some good friends went through, she was diagnosed with breast cancer, double mastectomy, reconstructive surgery yada yada, close to $500K in medical bills.

So we shopped Blue Cross, then we went through a 10 week long inquisition where they dived into every little aspect of our past.

When a policy was finally presented to us we were instructed to sign the agreement and we had 10 days to do so or the offer was void.

There was a list of things we had to agree to not be covered for including my back injury (which never bothers me) my son has a touch of asthma and now a history of pneumonia we had to agree that respiratory issues would not be covered. There were a few other things related to my wife as well.

We paused, if we agree to not be covered for these things will it always be that way? What if I have back problems 15 years from now? What if my sons asthma gets worse? Obamacare is supposed to do away with this kind of crap where they will not cover preexisting conditions.

I would prefer to have at the very least catastrophe insurance. We are shopping again with other insurance companies for that, obviously Blue Cross is not a option. We are also waiting to see what is going to happen with the Obamacare deal, if that does go through then we should be able to get coverage without any exceptions.

Risky? Hell yes, If you have full coverage thank your employer, because it is most likely worth over $2000 a month if it has a low deductible and lots of bells and whistles.

We have toyed with my wife getting a government job or something similar so we can get cheap health insurance for our family. What we are being expected to pay for it is out of line.

Furthermore, my experiance with my son was an eye opener as to how broken this system is. A $15,000 bill to the insurance company turned into a $5000 bill when cash was offered. I find it remarkable that the insurance company is willing to pay triple prices, which is getting passed on to us when we try to buy insurance.

The problem is much bigger than 30% having insurance, it is the pricing the hospital will charge when there is insurance. Whic cuases coverage to be out of reach for many.

I can afford $2000 a month for insurance if I HAD to get it, I am VERY lucky in that department. That 60K I have saved int he last 5 years is indeed in my bank account and since another year has just about ticked off it is probably closer to 72K put away now.

Some people choose not to have health insurance so they can have smart phones, cable TV and fast internet, I refuse to be ripped off with over the top pricing covering nothing. When I can find a health insurance plan that is not out of line, I will have it.

In the meantime do not assume I will not pay my bills, that is not true.

EDIT

Timely article on Huffington, part of the reason I am hanging back a little and seeing what comes along. There was no way in hell I was signing something agreeing to not be covered for a preexisting condition when that could be illegal soon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...cid=maing-grid7|aim|dl1|sec1_lnk2&pLid=381279

Sadly, this paragraph is not encouraging. Sounds like more of the same for me

Prices for some people who already buy their own insurance will rise above today's level, however, largely because the health care reform law doesn't allow insurance companies to exclude people with pre-existing conditions, guarantees a minimum benefits package, doesn't allow women to be charged more than men, and limits how much more older people must pay. The current market favors healthier people, but is more challenging for older and sicker people, who often can't find coverage.