Starters keep breaking

[NickCawks]

I have a fully rebuilt 95 XP. When I say rebuilt I mean every single component inside the ski was replaced last year.

The only thing that was not replaced was the ebox itself, however all the major components (mpem, solenoid, rectifier) were replaced inside the box, except the actual wires (excluding the main wires going to the solenoid) remain as they were when I got the ski.

In the last 2 months I have been able to put around 12 hours on the ski. However twice now the starter has just given out on me. The first time I was unsure what the problem was and posted in this post for advice solenoid clicking .after trouble shooting this issue for about a week I determined that the starter had just given out on me and replaced it with a used OEM starter.

Both scenarios are more or less the same. I had the ski running perfectly fine for around 5 to 6 hours spaning over several trips to the lake. Then all the sudden the ski will not start anymore. When I push the start button it just gives me a click and nothing else.

What is wrong that is causing my ski to tear up starters so quick? I cannot for the life of me understand what I could have done wrong to cause this issue.

How could the ski be seemingly working fine and then the starter just gives up?

The only major difference between the first time and the second time are as follows.
-drove ski from CO to TN for vacation
-due to elevation change and wanting to be on the safe side I turned the low speeds to run very rich and then tuned them back down.
-during this process the ski was flooding frequently on me
-due to frequent flooding the ski was dying and having to be cranked on quite a bit
-however I did get the tune to a place I felt comfortable that it was at a good mixture and then the ski was rode for another hour or so before this issue came up again.
*because the fact this issue happened excluding such things on the first I'm unsure of how important they actually are*

I want to thank you guys in advance for any and all advice. I'm very close to just giving up on it and selling it. I fancy myself a pretty decent mechanic and I try to read and soak up as much info from all sources (this and other forums, manuals, seadoosouce, etc). So it's really starting to kick me in the pride that I can't just have a ski that runs for a reasonable period of time.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Don't despair.....these old skis will bring you to your knees.....just when you think she's all sorted out.....NO START. The skis are great at mocking us.....a 24 year old ski will be finicky no matter what you do, so patience is the key.

What happens if you bridge the solenoid posts directly from the outside? Does the starter turn strongly? Of course, I'm assuming you are starting with a good strong battery.....these skis are nothing without a good strong battery to get things going.

If the solenoid clicks, but the starter does not turn strongly or at all...your solenoid internal contacts may be burnt.

 

[Dmpaul89]

the used starter you bought was probably just junk. no reason to overthink it. I am ordering an aftermarket $36 starter off amazon to keep on the trailer storage as a spare. Im new to owning seadoos but everyone I know that had PWC's in the past always were replacing starters.

 

[AKnarrowback]

Anytime you buy a used oem starter you should buy new brushes and do a quick clean up and rebuild. The used oem is still better than an aftermarket.

 

[Seadoo_nic]

I just bought a 97 xp last week. I'm having starting issues as well. Just bought a new battery and solenoid and starter. Hopefully that will fix my issue.

 

[matt.born]

So filling the engine bay with water isn’t that great for the starter. The starter sits close to the bottom probably under water. Fix your leaks and then try replacing starter.

 

[NickCawks]

Thank you all for the reassuring thoughts and suggestions. I guess my only remaining questions at this time are:

Are the starters all the same?

If I buy one from a different year/model is there limitations on which ones I can buy?

should I attempt to rebuild my current one or just assume it is done and buy another one?

I have a new non oem starter can I pull the brushes from this one?

 

[Ckrawiec]

Thank you all for the reassuring thoughts and suggestions. I guess my only remaining questions at this time are:

Are the starters all the same? - NO, some have a different head connection to the ski...some are 2 bolt, some are 3 bolt.

If I buy one from a different year/model is there limitations on which ones I can buy? - You should buy one that is specific to the year of your ski. Be advised though...most aftermarket starters are considered "junky".

should I attempt to rebuild my current one or just assume it is done and buy another one? - I'd rebuild the OEM starter with new brushes if you have the old OEM starter

I have a new non oem starter can I pull the brushes from this one? - Not sure on that one....take them apart and see if the brushes fit - maybe??

 

[DJDaveOtt]

I would check the bendix..

 

[NickCawks]

Thanks as always guys! Sorry for the late response, had to load up and drive the skis back to Colorado.

I would check the bendix..

Could you explain how to check the bendix?

I understand that the teeth need to be intact, but most of my mechanical experience is with cars and I've never had to rebuild a starter before.

I have ordered the brushes still trying to clear up whether or not I can rebuild my current starter or if I need to give Nick over at Westside Powersports a call.

 

[mikidymac]

The bendix is part of the starter on yours and is not separate so that’s not your issue if you are using a different starter.

 

[NickCawks]

good afternoon all.

The new brushes for my starter arrived this week and I finally got a few minutes to take the starter out of the ski and disassemble it today.

I've been looking up how to's on installing the new brushes and it seems to be a pretty straight forward job.

Just had a quick question. When I removed the cap from the starter it was very clear that the brushes were extremely worn (no surprise there I'm sure this has not been maintained since it came on the ski in 1995). However, a small ball bearing fell out of the starter when I pulled the cap on the side of the brushes.

where did this come from? the obvious answer is one of the balls fell out of the bearing on the Bendix side of the starter. However, I cant see in there without further disassembly. just wanted to double-check I'm not missing something here.

thanks again, fellas!

 

[POPPS]

The previous posts are correct. That bearing can only come from your bendix, and if this is the only issue, (make sure you count the number of teeth), then lady Luck is on your side, and staying with your OEM starter is the right way, I have never had luck with an after market. Also, get the OME brush kit, they are cheap and then maybe you may be off to the races.

 

[NickCawks]

thanks for the response pops.

I had an interesting development.

I picked the ball up to inspect it more closely and it crumbled.. It appears that it was not a ball bearing at all just a bunch of dirt and grime that had somehow formed into the rough shape of a ball? whatever happened it gave me a good chuckle. I also consulted the manual and found no mention of anything that shape so I am fairly certain this was not a part that needed to be re-installed lol.

I also did do some further disassembly of the starter and discovered that the ball bearings in the Bendix bearing are actually about a 1/8th of that size.

I did not get an OEM brush set because I had read somewhere on the forum that unlike the starters themselves it is ok to use an aftermarket brush set. I hope this does not come back to bite me.

I then went through the process of reassembling the starter. For as easy as the job actually was getting the brush set lined up so the screws would go through the holes proved to be quite irritating. Once reassembled I bench tested the starter on a battery and my goodness does that thing kick like a mule now. I have high hopes that this will solve my problem because when I bench tested the starter with the old brushes it spun the Bendix out but created maybe a quarter of the amount of torque that it does now.

I will be re-installing the starter in just a bit here, ill keep you guys posted!

Interesting side note: I tore my non-OEM starter apart to see if i could use the o-rings on my OEM starter. First, that is not feasible with the starter I have. The AM starters o-rings seem to be of much lower quality and much thinner.
Second the AM starter while doing a good job of "looking" the same as the OEM starter is actually very different. The bearing set up on the Bendix is a completely different size which also provides evidence that the axle the Bendix rides on in the bearing is about 1/3 smaller diameter of the OEM starters. While doing this I also noted that the brush set in the AM starter is of a completely different design than the OEM starter.

As always thanks, everyone!