Starter Staying engaged 1996 SPX

[etemplet]

What is the likely candidate for the starter staying engaged after hitting the start button. Stick to the weird stuff. A friend brought his ski over and I'd like to fix it as quick as possible. I doubt that will happen... but I can hope. LOL
Could it be the MPEM, Start/Stop switch or a Magneto problem? Input is appreciated.

 

[mikidymac]

I would suspect the solenoid or bad battery.
I have seen a low battery weld the solenoid closed and always cranking.

 

[etemplet]

Thanks @mikidymac . He said he replaced the solenoid and it didn't help. I haven't looked at it yet. I'm just wondering what signal to or from the MPEM would keep the starter engaged. I doubt it is a simple issue but that would be refreshing for sure.

 

[artr]

You could test the Start button with an ohmmeter to see if it is sticking closed when the button is released. You could also check the 12v signal at the base of the solenoid that the MPEM provides and see if it disappears when the Start button is released.

 

[etemplet]

That's a good idea. Looks like I'll be well versed on this issue when I get both of them fixed. LOL

I had 1996 GTI that was giving me trouble, intermittent on recognizing the key and start button. Ended up being build up on the large plug on the MPEM, the top three connectors that look like a blade. After I cleaned those up, the ski worked fine. The dead give away to the problem was when I hit the start/stop button and the ski would not shut off so... I knew it wasn't seeing something. LOL

I chased a problem on my 1996 GTX for a while. It wouldn't recognize anything when I inserted the key then when it did it worked fine for a few days. The ski would sit a week and I'd have to play with the wires to get it to start. I went to swap out the Rectifier and found a White/ wire crushed under the rectifier. When I replaced the section of the wire the ski has been fine ever since. Gotta be Sherlock Holmes sometimes and persistent too. Thanks for the input!!

 

[DaddyLoafin]

So I had something very similar to this happen on my 98 spx at the end of last season. The second the big ground wire touched the negative terminal on the battery the starter would engage. Didnt matter if the key was on it or not, once it was grounded the starter was going. When I'd put the small ground on negative terminal of the battery the solenoid would click rapidly, again no key on the post.
turned out to be mpem

 

[DaddyLoafin]

98 Spx starter solenoid stuck closed. (It’s Not the solenoid)

 

[etemplet]

So I had something very similar to this happen on my 98 spx at the end of last season. The second the big ground wire touched the negative terminal on the battery the starter would engage. Didnt matter if the key was on it or not, once it was grounded the starter was going. When I'd put the small ground on negative terminal of the battery the solenoid would click rapidly, again no key on the post.
turned out to be mpem

I had a few strange problems that were solved when I replaced the MPEM. Fortunate for me I got a lot of skis and I can pull an MPEM to test. I'll check that out. At least those early MPEMs are simple and I have a few of them in my pile.

 

[etemplet]

98 Spx starter solenoid stuck closed. (It’s Not the solenoid)

Man that is a great diagram for the problem !! Thanks for postin. I got so many skis going right now but I can't wait to get on this. LOL

 

[DaddyLoafin]

I had a few strange problems that were solved when I replaced the MPEM. Fortunate for me I got a lot of skis and I can pull an MPEM to test. I'll check that out. At least those early MPEMs are simple and I have a few of them in my pile.

lol well thats good to have around. Cost me around $600 to get a new mpem and have the keys programmed to it. Something I discovered when diagnosing it was that I unplugged the stator it would stop happening.

I had thought about wiring up a second button just for the starter but didn't feel like putting in the effort to figuring out if the mpem would allow it to start like that.

 

[etemplet]

lol well thats good to have around. Cost me around $600 to get a new mpem and have the keys programmed to it. Something I discovered when diagnosing it was that I unplugged the stator it would stop happening.

I had thought about wiring up a second button just for the starter but didn't feel like putting in the effort to figuring out if the mpem would allow it to start like that.

Man we gotta stick together or else these so called "Helpful Vendors" will put you in the poor house. I did sit down and separate the electrical parts I have. I got 4 or 5 gray boxes. Low and behold I had a MPEM for a 951 (I thought it was junk) but we tried it in a local guy's ski. I programmed a key and it worked. I laughed and charged him $100 for the MPEM and a few bucks for the key.

 

[DaddyLoafin]

Man we gotta stick together or else these so called "Helpful Vendors" will put you in the poor house. I did sit down and separate the electrical parts I have. I got 4 or 5 gray boxes. Low and behold I had a MPEM for a 951 (I thought it was junk) but we tried it in a local guy's ski. I programmed a key and it worked. I laughed and charged him $100 for the MPEM and a few bucks for the key.

oh man I wish I could of found one for that. westside wanted $600 for one with key, so for s@g's I called my local dealer to see if they by chance had a one in inventory and they told me that a dealer in florda had 3. Called them up and they spent a day or two looking for them but couldnt find them but ended up finding one that was new old stock in england for just over $400 but with shipping and than shipping it to west side to have keys programed it ended up costing just as much if not more. But I got a origonal seadoo mpem box out of it so theres that lol

 

[etemplet]

oh man I wish I could of found one for that. westside wanted $600 for one with key, so for s@g's I called my local dealer to see if they by chance had a one in inventory and they told me that a dealer in florda had 3. Called them up and they spent a day or two looking for them but couldnt find them but ended up finding one that was new old stock in england for just over $400 but with shipping and than shipping it to west side to have keys programed it ended up costing just as much if not more. But I got a origonal seadoo mpem box out of it so theres that lol

I wish I knew how to find "New Old Stock" I'd be buyin that stuff up. I just bought a Speed Sensor on Ebay that the seller listed as new. He said he bought it "New Old Stock". I'm getting it for around $60. I told him that I just bought 2 and neither of them worked. Thankfully the Vendors are refunding me.

 

[DaddyLoafin]

I wish I knew how to find "New Old Stock" I'd be buyin that stuff up. I just bought a Speed Sensor on Ebay that the seller listed as new. He said he bought it "New Old Stock". I'm getting it for around $60. I told him that I just bought 2 and neither of them worked. Thankfully the Vendors are refunding me.

lol I just got lucky and googled the part number and had less than 1 page of results. i mesaged the guy and he told me that it was left over stock at a seadoo dealer he worked at a while ago. He also had a new old stock oem ride plate, but i cant imagine what shipping that across the atlantic would be. Pretty sure I found another one in Russia but I don't understand Russian and wouldn't want to buy anything from within Russia lol.

 

[etemplet]

OK, I'm finally working on the SPX. Battery charged, plugs out checked compression 150psi, getting spark. I hit the start button and had to remove the battery terminal to get it to stop. I checked the stator and resistance was all good. I had a bad ground on the main battery ground (not my ski) I'm gonna check the start switch and also make sure whoever did the work replacing the solenoid has it wired correctly. I'll check all the grounds and connections first but I suspect it is the MPEM. I'll find out this afternoon. I have MPEMs to swap out if needed. I restored this ski a few years ago and I doubt the owner put many hours on it. I can't think of any other weird stuff that would make the starter stay engaged.

Something I have also found that solves problems... taking the plugs apart and cleaning them up so they make good contact.

 

[Grim]

Only time I had that problem is when I bought a new solenoid, it was bad out the box.

 

[etemplet]

Only time I had that problem is when I bought a new solenoid, it was bad out the box.

I find it difficult when the ski gets a new owner even though I built it.... I never know what they did or what happened. The stupidity can be amazing sometimes but their path of destruction is usually easy to follow.

 

[etemplet]

lol well thats good to have around. Cost me around $600 to get a new mpem and have the keys programmed to it. Something I discovered when diagnosing it was that I unplugged the stator it would stop happening.

I had thought about wiring up a second button just for the starter but didn't feel like putting in the effort to figuring out if the mpem would allow it to start like that.

I thought about what you said as I was working on mine. think it would start if you're getting fire.
I love my parts pile, I had the exact MPEM and gray box and I took some readings on the multi-meter. Virtually the same ohm readings on both MPEMs and wiring. The repair manual didn't have a wiring diagram but I didn't need it.

The solenoid was staying engaged even when I pulled the plug off the solenoid and no wires going to the solenoid and the starter wire disconnected. The owner said he is tired of replacing solenoids. I'm wondering if he isn't just melting the solenoids by holding the starter engaged too long. Aftermarket solenoid and that's all I had as well so that what it got. LOL

Everything checks out and it's working so. BAM !!!!

 

[DaddyLoafin]

I thought about what you said as I was working on mine. think it would start if you're getting fire.
I love my parts pile, I had the exact MPEM and gray box and I took some readings on the multi-meter. Virtually the same ohm readings on both MPEMs and wiring. The repair manual didn't have a wiring diagram but I didn't need it.

The solenoid was staying engaged even when I pulled the plug off the solenoid and no wires going to the solenoid and the starter wire disconnected. The owner said he is tired of replacing solenoids. I'm wondering if he isn't just melting the solenoids by holding the starter engaged too long. Aftermarket solenoid and that's all I had as well so that what it got. LOL

Everything checks out and it's working so. BAM !!!!

haha I wish i was that lucky. I tried 3 different solenoids, 2 of which were brand new from OSD and all did the same thing. When I would take the small ground wire (the one that doesn't go to the starter) and touch it to ground you could hear something clicking. Im glade yours turned out to be an easier, cheaper solution than mine was lol.

But now I have bigger problems. one of my head bolts was leaking water and I went to remove it to reseal it with grease and lock tight and it snaped. So now I have to pull the engine again and pull it apart because the guy who built this engine couldn't have been bothered to do his job properly when putting it together. So over working on this thing this year lol

 

[Lothsahn]

I know you solved it, but we're on weird things.

My solenoid worked fine, but my starter stayed engaged after starting and bogged down the engine. It had a bad bendix gear that got all chewed up at full extension. Bendix would extend but not retract back, so the motor was driving the starter once it fired up and chugging.

It was a new to me OEM starter, but then my main crank bearings went out on the engine. Don't know if the bendix was damaged when I got it or if the crank bearings chewed it up.

That was not a fun summer.

 

[etemplet]

I know you solved it, but we're on weird things.

My solenoid worked fine, but my starter stayed engaged after starting and bogged down the engine. It had a bad bendix gear that got all chewed up at full extension. Bendix would extend but not retract back, so the motor was driving the starter once it fired up and chugging.

It was a new to me OEM starter, but then my main crank bearings went out on the engine. Don't know if the bendix was damaged when I got it or if the crank bearings chewed it up.

That was not a fun summer.

Often the case when people ask. "what do you think MIGHT be the problem?" If you are honestly working on these skis, you'll encounter all kinds of stuff SO..... when YOU have a problem the routine mundane fixes are what you've already done. Time for the WEIRD STUFF !! What I have noticed is that the problem never changes, because it has not been resolved. Then when we finally figure it out, everything comes together and BOOM !! THAT's what it was!!

I had a problem with a DI that had a string of issues, ran weird, was burning the fuel ultra clean and making hot spots on the top of the piston. I thought I was giving the engine too much oil, Engine sluggish at idle and sluggish at top end.. I realized I connected the rave air lines backwards. So, the raves were operating erratically. Open and closing at the wrong times but still working a bit because the cylinder pressures still move them a bit. (I installed the rave solenoid facing the wrong direction) Once I swapped it around BOOM ! ski was GREAT !!! LOL OH ME !! Ha ha. Don't ever give up !!