Starter problems

[PaulS]

Hi All,,
Having a problem with my 04 Sportster,,,
The starter runs but does not engage to the fly weel ,
I did have a problem just a few weeks ago with water and mud in the mag housing and had to replace the stator,
I have checked the drawings and see a starter drive assembly does any on have a detailed drawing of this or explain the function of it as I think this could be the issue just want some input before I take the engine out again,
Regards
Paul,,

 

[seadoosnipe]

Paragraph?

I'm trying to read in between the lines here but from what I'm reading, it seems your starter is bad. But why do you have to take it out of the boat to replace it. I see your a premium member so you should have the drawing you need for the starter.
You may not even have to replace it. If you had mud and water in your mag, then maybe you breached the starter too. It's a pretty simple magnetic drive type motor. Just two bolts holding the whole thing together.....take them out and slide it apart and clean with an electrical solvent...put back together...let me know!

 

[PaulS]

Hi there,
Have had the starter out and have gave it a good clean have even bench tested it and it looks to be working fine thats why I thought the drive assembly could be the cause,
As the starter runs fine but the drive assembly does not engauge to the fly weel,
From the drawing I cant see if there are any moving parts on the drive assembly that may have got gunged up and need to be freed or is it all one part,,,

 

[seadoosnipe]

Bench test?

Paul, do you still have the starter out? If you did the bench test, did you see the bendix spring kick the starter gear all the way out to the edge of the housing?
Just because the starter motor rolls over when you connect 12 vdc to it, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's good. You need to ensure the bendix throws the starter gear all the way out.
It sounds like your starter is weak.
Let me know what you find out!

 

[PaulS]

Hi There,,
I don't think that the starter on this model has a bendix mech on it as I can see no way of movment within the starter,
What I think what should happen with this model is that the starter drive assembly acts like a bendix and moves forward to engauge the fly weel and for some reson mine will not engauge,
I will try another starter thought and let you know how I get on,,,,
Regards
Paul,,,,,

 

[seadoosnipe]

Bendix?

The bendix in this starter is internal. Everystarter has a bendix. I think your thinking of the type I use to have on my old Chevy. The bendix was on the outside and could be removed and replaced.
The term bendix is used in the mechanism that throws the starter gear out as it's being rotated. In the case of the seadoo starter, it's by centrifugal force. When bench testing and you put power to the starter, you should see that gear which contacts your flywheel, jump all the way out to the end of travel in that cap.
This starter is easily disassembled. There aren't many parts in it beside the stator and armature.

UPDATE!........O.K...I just looked your starter up in the book and it seems your right. I'll have to do some further research in how this starter engages the flywheel. But it has to have some way of pushing the gear in and then releasing it to go out. I just can't see that it would remain engaged the entire time the engine was running.

 

[PaulS]

Hi there again,,
Thanks for the input the starter drive assemblt is mounted on to the end of the starter and is spring loaded at the oposite end,, I take it when this part spins at hight speed it should engauge the fly weel at this point Im not to sure if its the starter thats week on they may be still debris around the starter assembly,
I will try another starter thought just incase the one I have has been weakened some how,,
I have other Ski's and boats that I can remove the started ad give it a try,,,
Just dont want to be taking the engine out again,,,
Just put it back in a few days ago when I had to replace the stator,,,due to water damage,,,,thats what make me think there could still be debris in there stoping it engaging,
Will keep you up to date with my progress,,,,,This boat is killing me,,,its a 2004 with only 15 hours put up I bought it in the States and brought it over here to Ireland,,,,recon its been layed up far too long hence all the problems,,
Thanks again Louis

 

[seadoosnipe]

Sprag Gear!

Paul, I must correct myself......seems like I get stuck in the old school terminology and then get lost. The item I'm calling your bendix is actually called the sprag gear and clutch assembly. It is spring loaded and by the G-force of the starters rotation, it should throw it out to engage the flywheel.
Question, when I look at the drawing on this thing, it looks like that when you unbolt and remove the starter, you only remove the starter and shaft. It looks like the sprag clutch and assembly stays inside the casing of the flywheel. Is this correct? It is possible that with your motor setting up for a while, that your starter motor has lost it's punch. If you can test it first before replacing it, I would. I'm sure that puppy isn't cheap. I'll also look to see if there's some type of resistance test you can do to it so that you can tell whether or not it needs to be rewinded.
Sorry for mis-leading you on my old school terminology. Keep me up to date on what you find out. I'll try and help as much as I can!...:cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

Hey Paul, if you have a auto parts store near by thay can check out your starter for free and tell you if it's working correctly or not. You can't order a new one from them but they can at least check it out.
Karl

 

[PaulS]

Hi Thanks,
Im going to try another starter before I take the engine out,,
I have other ski's and boats that I can remove the starter from,,,this boat is such a headache,,,,bought it in the NY and shipped over here ,,it only has 15 hours put up but has been laying up for 3 years way too long,
I import boats and Ski's from to the states too Ireland and have a few around but this boat has been a headache from day one,,,,,the other problem is there no good mechanics here the nearest is over 200 miles away and aint that good,,but this site is proving to give great advice and help thanks again all,,
Paul

 

[seadoosnipe]

Starter?

Paul, when you pull the starter out, does the sprag come out with it? Or do you just get the geared end of the shaft when it's been pulled?
Reason I'm asking is, it's true that the starter may be weak from sitting for a long period of time but I've encountered on one occasion, when a friend let a jet ski sit up for 2 seasons, the bendix (or sprag) was a little stiff. It didn't have the ump to throw it out.
Let me know what you find out!

 

[PaulS]

Hi all ,,
Remove the engine and the sprag gear which has a clutch mechanisim which is totaly jamed up,,,,will need to replace with new,,
Did try a new starter but had the same result,,,so removed the fly wheel which is not an easy task to get to the sprag gear,,,,
Has anyone else had this problem???
Again thanks for all the help,,
Paul

 

[seadoosnipe]

Your the first!

Paul, your the first I've heard having this problem. But after I was talking about the bendix and your reply, I did have to go and look it up. That's why I asked if when you removed the starter, did the sprag come out with it. It didn't look like it did.
You may be able to free the sprag up. It may not necessarily need to be replaced. It's just a simple mechanical "centrifugal" device. I have repaired the bendix (sprag clutch) on a 650 Tigershark before. Thank God I didnt' have to pull the motor.
Good luck, and do try to free this up with WD-40 ect...before replacing it

 

[PaulS]

Hi Ive had it in WD40 for over a day it just jams up all the time,,,the only way to remove is engine out and fly wheel off
This boat is a 04 with only 15 hours put up but I recon that was way to long I have already replaced the stator due to water damage and recon the water has damaged the sprag gear also,,,,when I removed the mag housing it was full of water and mud so I know what caused the damage,
The good thing is now I know why,,,If these boats on the trailer and do not use the dolly wheel even with the bilge plug open they do fill up with water in storage,,, so all looking make sure your boat is proped up so that the frount end is higher than the back with the bilge pluges open or it will fill with water and cause damage,,,,Bad design seadoo the bilge pluges should be the lowest part of the boat to allow drainage????
So far this has cost me $800 to repair and ove 2 weeks of work, for a new stator and starter drive assembly,,,PLEASE ALL KEEP THE BOW OF YOUR BOAT HIGHER THAN THE STERN??? when parked up,,,And seadoo please design the boats NOT to hold water when parked up..
Regards to all and thanks to all for the input,,,
PaulS








Thanks all,,,

 

[seadoosnipe]

Sprag!

Well, then it seems you've covered all your bases on it. After reading this reply, I do remember reading your original post of how could the mud and water get into the housing?
With the "too few" hours on this boat and it's age, tells me it's been sitting up more of it's life than it's been out having fun. I think once you get all the bugs worked out, you'll really like having it.
As far as the design. I don't know if I entirely agree with you there. The boat's design is considered a wet boat. Which means a wave can wash over the bow and come into the deck area and drain through the hole in the back of the boat under the drivers seat. The engine compartment can take on water if the deck door lid isn't sealed or shut tight. When storing these or any other boat, the owner should realize the possibility of water building up inside, if the forward deck is level or lower than the rear of the deck. The biggest difference with a standard out-board type boat, is the inside hull is completly visible. On the Seadoo, the interior hull isn't visible without opening comparments.
Please remember to always store your boat with the nose up and the plugs out.
BTW, I learned this the hard way several years ago with a bass boat I owned. The nose was too low and it rained. I had to bail all the water out!...
Was not very fun. :ack:

 

[kustomkarl]

Wow, I'm glad you solved your problem Paul, I'm just sorry it was an expensive repair to get it resolved.....now go and have some fun with it !!!

 

[PaulS]

Hi ,,,Will be next tear before I get a blast on it the parts will take 3 weeks to get here,,,and by then the weather here in Ireland will be freezing,,,,
Have a few ski's and boats to fix out to keep me busy in the winter,
I have just imported 30 ski's that will all need to be checked out and serviced ready for sale in the spring,,,so will have a busy winter checking them out,,
Again thanks to all for the input,,,
Regards
Paul

 

[seadoosnipe]

And to you!

Best regards here too!....please come back to visit often. You being a distributer and working on them, I'm sure you have a lot to share with other members that may be in the market to buy one, or a problem you can help them with.
Thanks for being a member and supporting our family forum.

 

[kustomkarl]

geeze Paul you should be a sponsor of our site..lol Repairing that many doos takes lots of time and patiance.

 

[PaulS]

I am now telling eveyone who buys a ski or boat from me to take the premium membership of this site,,,the info is great and the help outstanding,
Well done to all involved,,,,
And I would like to be a sponsor and place an add on the site ,,,
Regards to all
PaulS