Seadoo lack of support

[richallen72]

Was just curious if anyone has heard of a lawsuit taken against seadoo for there poorly manufactured machines and lack of interest in repairing issues they know about. Should they not be responsible to repair faulty equipment. I'm trying right now to get test data from them about their " NEW 200 HR " supercharger kits. They will not show me any test data. They just keep saying that info is for internal purposes and not public. Why are they hiding that info. Issues with superchargers, sodium filled exhaust valves, timing chains. All these things leading up to massive expense for us the consumers when it fails and it all has failed many times. If there are any laywers on here or people that know laywers would love to know what are the possibilities of a class action suit against Seadoo knowing that have have substandard equipment out there and are not compensating the consumers of these products for repairs and up grades.

 

[ski-d00]

Well, the exact reason that they don't supply test data to the public is so it can't be used against them. For a class action law suit, you have to show that they have massive failures after what is deemed an unreasonable time frame. BRP has always said that the sc is a wear item and needs regular maintenance, similar to replacing brake pads, and should be done every two years which nobody really does but it keeps them from being liable. The hours are meaningless for 95% of owners so they have very little risk is saying that they will last 200 hours since the 2 year limitation governs this.

Each of the other issues you mention are either caused by poor maintenance, like the valves breaking, or by changing suppliers(timing chains) where they have acknowledged the issues and have done pretty well to support the issues.

The usable life of any seadoo is 10 years in their eyes and the eyes of the law. They are not saying it won't require maintenance nor not have parts that break which is identical to all cars. They produce a product that is made to run at 8k rpms for extended period of times, go try and run your car at 8k and lets see how fast that works for you.

The point is that BRP is a business and a very well respected company in terms of design and reliability. They do build airplanes, you know. Any company that leads the industry in this high tech field will have some issues. I would say you have a zero chance of getting a lawyer to take on this as a class action law suit if they are relying on winning the case as their payment.

 

[richallen72]

I hear what you saying. And its not that I have any disrespect for Seadoo or Bombardier . They have been in my city for many years with one of its research plants. My issues are with equipment that in a sense should be under recall. Auto companies will recall a vehicle if a trim piece wont secure properly just to avoid lawsuits. Seadoo admits to its failings but leaves the responsibility up to the consumers.
And its true Bombardier builds planes. But seadoos are not planes and I really don't think to much plane technology ends up in the Seadoos. And I do agree with you that maintance and riding style has a lot to do with the equipment lasting. And trust me when it comes to high reving supercharged and turbo engines I know all about them and have built a few in the automotive side of things and yes they do need a lot more attention. My only issues are I think Seadoo should be 100 percent on the hook are at least some for the sub standard equipment which they admit to putting out, for repair. And I don't think a company of any kind should advertise claims of increased performance or reliability without making there data public. Otherwise they can say whatever they want with no proof. I just bought a solas impeller and they claim increased performance and they show there test data. To me that's good business and it supports their claims. Seadoo should and other companies as well should make this data open to the public. Otherwise in a sense its just false advertising. Believe me I love my Seadoo and would love to buy more. I just think the company should not be hiding info on claims of performance or reliability. It makes you wonder why are they so concerned not to let this info out. Is it either because no test data exists or that the test data shows something different then there claim

 

[skiasylum]

Well I have been flying the CRJ 900 aircraft for 10 years and also own a 2011 Wake Pro which I do most of the maintenance on and am amazed how much of the A/C and Jet Ski technologies are the same. Computers, control by wire, maintenance diagnostics, braking, propulsion, and even the manuals seem like they were written by the same guy. Only thing I'm not sure of is which technology is driving which. Ski to plane or plane to ski.

 

[gti 130 wow]

If they were to lose the case on their defective designed superchargers , more then likely they would leave the business. It's a shame cuz their non sc pwc have a great record . The cost would be off the chart cuz if the problem was simple, it would already be fixed.I don't know where that guy comes up with this 10 year thing . I have had recall stuff done on my 20+ year old Town car and I remember some recall stuff on Hondas I owned over 10 years all related to safety. The fact is if the sc fails that it could cause injury or death when the driver can no longer steer or brake so if a class action suit comes that I think is how they will be stuck with the repair.

 

[richallen72]

this is more my point then anything. Its an obvious design issue and several other issues with these machines including the sodium filled exhaust valves. Seadoo knows this and made improvements but puts the responsibility of repair on the shoulders of the consumer. That's the part I feel is unfair. I love my Seadoo and nothing really against Seadoo other then their lack of support for known issues. Any car manufacturer is all over repairs like this so they don't find themselves in legal issues. I wish someone could take on Seadoo so this kind of issues don't happen in the PWC industry

 

[ski-d00]

The percentage of failures within 2 years or 100 hours is extremely low which proves the sc is not an obvious design issue. It is a wear item that people do not pay attention to. If you don't like to maintain wear items, then an sc model is not for you but in no way can you blame BRP for that.

A sc failure is not a safety issue and will never have a recall for a being a safety issue. If you follow the owners manual and operate safely, at no time during a potential sc failure will you be in any danger due to an engine stall or reduced power. BRP has had many recalls, like fuel tank problems which is a safety issue. Car makers do recalls when it is a safety issue but sometimes they do have some campaigns just to avoid bad publicity. BRP doesn't operate this way. However, when it is still under warranty, they will fix a lot of things that they really don't have to.

The SeaDoos lasting 10 years thing comes directly from their commercials where they say every seadoo is made to give 10 years of fun. I know the model that did the SeaDoo commercial for the Sparks when they came out. She was a local girl where my wife coached her in volleyball and her name is Kari Gibson.

Sodium filled exhaust valves have been used for many years in lots of vehicles and are a proven good design. When you let them rust and they develop micro cracks, that doesn't change a good design into a bad one.

 

[gti 130 wow]

The percentage of failures within 2 years or 100 hours is extremely low which proves the sc is not an obvious design issue. It is a wear item that people do not pay attention to. If you don't like to maintain wear items, then an sc model is not for you but in no way can you blame BRP for that.

A sc failure is not a safety issue and will never have a recall for a being a safety issue. If you follow the owners manual and operate safely, at no time during a potential sc failure will you be in any danger due to an engine stall or reduced power. BRP has had many recalls, like fuel tank problems which is a safety issue. Car makers do recalls when it is a safety issue but sometimes they do have some campaigns just to avoid bad publicity. BRP doesn't operate this way. However, when it is still under warranty, they will fix a lot of things that they really don't have to.

The SeaDoos lasting 10 years thing comes directly from their commercials where they say every seadoo is made to give 10 years of fun. I know the model that did the SeaDoo commercial for the Sparks when they came out. She was a local girl where my wife coached her in volleyball and her name is Kari Gibson.

Sodium filled exhaust valves have been used for many years in lots of vehicles and are a proven good design. When you let them rust and they develop micro cracks, that doesn't change a good design into a bad one.

Yes but if such a failure results in loss of control or braking then that just illustrates that like a air plane , such engines must be built to a higher standard. Also their is plenty of litigation going on but some may not be evident for some time.

An example of one now that will effect more owners then the engine issue.


http://newjerseyclassactionlawyer.net/sea-doo-exhaust-defect/

 

[ski-d00]

Per the owner's manual, you should not rely on the braking system to stop the watercraft and you should always allow a safe distance to be able coast to a stop if necessary. Loss of power due to engine stall is not really loss of control. I don't know of any pwc owner that hasn't had an engine stall at one time or another so that would be a pretty tough claim to rely on. Watercraft are not planes or cars and they are held to a different standard. That is just the way it is. If you want higher standards, be prepared to pay double what they cost now.

We live in a very litigious society but the melting exhaust has been remedied a long time ago. If it sank(which they don't really sink, just act like an overpriced bobber) under warranty, BRP fixed it in every instance I ever heard of. They also fixed many that were out of warranty, there is a tech bulletin on it. I'd be surprised if that class action went anywhere but who knows.

 

[gti 130 wow]

Per the owner's manual, you should not rely on the braking system to stop the watercraft and you should always allow a safe distance to be able coast to a stop if necessary. Loss of power due to engine stall is not really loss of control. I don't know of any pwc owner that hasn't had an engine stall at one time or another so that would be a pretty tough claim to rely on. Watercraft are not planes or cars and they are held to a different standard. That is just the way it is. If you want higher standards, be prepared to pay double what they cost now.

We live in a very litigious society but the melting exhaust has been remedied a long time ago. If it sank(which they don't really sink, just act like an overpriced bobber) under warranty, BRP fixed it in every instance I ever heard of. They also fixed many that were out of warranty, there is a tech bulletin on it. I'd be surprised if that class action went anywhere but who knows.

Its like my uncle commented those signs in the parking lot that say the store is not responsible for shopping cart damage is just BS . Power steering and brakes are designed to work if the engine stalls , brake hydraulic systems are spit to if one half leaks the other half is fine etc to prevent litigation.Back in the 2 stroke / carburetor days, I would agree but a properly maintain fuel injected ,engine is just a reliable as the engine in a 747. I don't be live I have driven anything with that type of engine stall out on me including the 94 Lincoln I bought in 1997. That car of mine has a mass air flow sensor that fails but if it does the software somehow ignores the out of limit readings and has a plan B for example that keeps me out of trouble.

 

[go_panthers]

Question: Is there documented evidence that superchargers or sodium-filled valves are a big problem? Is there data on failure rates available?

 

[richallen72]

My biggest issue with seadoo is they know they have some poor designs , Its why they fixed them in models after mine. If these are issues that Seadoo openly admits that are not reliable then they should be on the hook for the repairs are at least to some point. You have to rebuild the super chargers anyway that's a given and understandable by at least 80 percent of the people that buy them. So since the ceramic washers where junk and Seadoo admits that they should be at least covering the cost of the upgraded washers. And they should also have to prove that there claim of 200 hrs is true. You cant just make statements and not back them up with the proof that the consumer can see. otherwise why not just say 1000 hrs or 2 years which ever comes first. And the sodium valves if they are so great why would seadoo change them. again they know they are not up to standards. Again I'm not out to try and destroy seadoo. Ido love my machine and take care of it very well. But if after all the work and effort I put into taking care of it and it breaks due to a known issue by the company how pissed do you think I will be....How pissed do you think you would be. Its one thing if it breaks from abuse or lack of maintenance etc. But failure do to known issues that should never happen.

 

[richallen72]

I dontknow if there is documented evidence but you can sure find a lot on the forms and the internet in general about issues people have had. One of my biggest issues is Seadoo will not disclose any info showing any of there service interval claims or backing their claims in anyway. Its like they just pick numbers out of their heads and say this sounds good lets go with this number lol

 

[go_panthers]

If all we have is forum complaints, then we don't have a real indication of how widespread the problem is, since people without problems don't go to forums seeking help on fixing them.

I don't know if the failure rate is 20%, 2%, or .02%. Not sure how to figure that out.

 

[richallen72]

I'm not sure either. but it does seem to be an issue. I have fixed my supercharger now. At least according to seadoo its now fixed lol. But now I have concerns over the valves. I'm in fresh water only and store it properly but I have that constent feeling in the back of my neck that one of these sodium filled valves might go. I plan on replacing them hopefully next year. I just want a safe watercraft that I'm almost 100 percent will get me back to the dock everytime

 

[seadoon1]

I almost sued them. And I should as it's the right thing to do. But time is short, I am old, and another year of lost use while in court, so the 1,600 I have to pay to get new replacements will have to do. Also lost 2.5k in attorney fees. Just to get their attention. BRP does nothing for anyone with just asking. You have to force the issue.