SBT products?

[seadoosnipe]

I have been using SBT (short block technologies) for several years. They have been around for over 10 years, providing a low cost service for us to buy cranks, pistons, sleeves, carb kits, wearing rings and of course, motors.

I have purchased 12 motors in the past 2 years. I have only had one with a problem and it was a broken RAVE bellows. All these motors are still running today.

I try and use www.seadoowarehouse.com for all my Seadoo part needs since it directly benefits our forum, helping us keep the lights on. But, there are something we do not sell.

I have had 2 members report they had a less than pleasurable experience with the sales and customer service department with SBT, so in all fairness, I want to open this thread for memebers who have used their service and tell us how your experience was. From waiting for parts a lot longer than they said would be here, motors that are delivered with problems that they seemed to try and blame on the purchaser or any other issues you might think is important that a prospective buyer might want to be aware of.

I have in the past, found that some of the problems that arise with these motors is not from a fault of theirs but from a lack of experience to put the motors in according to their specifications and running the break in oils to their requirements. Using the wrong injector oil (such as TCW-3) and not varying the throttles regularly. The most problematic things I've seen is after blowing a motor, say in the MAG piston, the same happens to the new motor. I would have to ask at this time, when the motor blew, did you go as far as to find the "root cause" as to why your old motor blew in the first place.

I had one member do a total upper end rebuild because his mag cylider bit the dust. I tried to warn him that if he didn't find our why it happened, just replacing the heads and pistons may lead to a second failure. On the second trip out, the mag cylinder failed again. It was finally determined that the crank main bearing at the MAG cylinder was bad.

So, take a minute, share your experience and vote on whether your experience was a good one or a bad one. Please take a minute to decide on whether the problem was from a lack of complete inspection of all your components that may have caused the failure or was it solely a issue with their quality of work.

SBT states that they do a 4 point check on all motors leaving the shop and that they only use OEM genuine replacment parts. They also state that their motor replacements are either one size overbore or standary. If you had problems and you believe they sent you a motor with 2nd bore over sizes, plese attach a pix of that size to your reply.......

I look forward to reading some of your reviews..........:cheers:

 

[timmyboy76]

Havn't had a "could" or bad experience, with them...:rofl:...:cheers:

I'd use them, when time comes, though...

 

[scooper77515]

I got my 787 NOS, so didn't use SBT. Even though I was planning on it if I didn't win the ebay auction for the NOS one.

I sold my entire old engine back to them, and they paid "decent" for the parts. I think I got $100 or so for a block with a rod sticking out the side, and all the attached items (heads, head covers, I kept my RAVEs and carbs).

But the starter I bought recently was half the price of other parts houses, and was delivered quickly from SBT.

 

[roneagan@cfl.rr.com]

I have used them numerous times with no problems.. I put a motor from them in one of my skis about 1 year ago and it still runs great!! They get my vote for great service and products.. I won't hesitate to use them for another motor..

 

[kwellmancpa]

I have had some problems with them, but they have stood by the product and ship replacement. I did go on a rant previously, mainly from a standpoint they were saying one thing that caused it, and not, but water under the bridge. The rave valve hit the piston. They sent a replacement, was breaking in the replacement, and felt like had something in the impellor, like a drag, then motor locked up tight. Got an RGA to send the second one back, when disassembling to send core back, the crank bearing on the mag side went out. This could have happened for a number or reasons, even just a faulty bearing. I am hoping this third motor works, of course I have all winter to dial it in since riding season is about over in Ohio, so hope to have it ready for the water in the spring.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Reason for thread....

I have had some problems with them, but they have stood by the product and ship replacement. I did go on a rant previously, mainly from a standpoint they were saying one thing that caused it, and not, but water under the bridge. The rave valve hit the piston. They sent a replacement, was breaking in the replacement, and felt like had something in the impellor, like a drag, then motor locked up tight. Got an RGA to send the second one back, when disassembling to send core back, the crank bearing on the mag side went out. This could have happened for a number or reasons, even just a faulty bearing. I am hoping this third motor works, of course I have all winter to dial it in since riding season is about over in Ohio, so hope to have it ready for the water in the spring.

I must admit, you were the reason I put the thread together. I felt, after your previous thread, the input was only scant. I thought it might be a good idea to see how others have done with their experiences.

I know you said they stood by their agreement but with you having to pay shipping charges, it's seems its no longer a good deal.

I hope your future work, if with SBT, does not cause you the headaches this past experience did.

I just got a request from a memeber, with the 96 model Sportster who is hoping I can put a 717cc engine in his boat for him. I'm in limbo right now with it cause I just don't have the time to do it right now. I've told him if he can wait till November, I might be able to accomodate him. That will be number 13 from SBT if I do the job.................:cheers:

 

[mudpie]

i have had good and bad from sbt
im the years past, good luck with them, got tired of rebuilding engines from the ground up and much cheaper to use sbt
past coulpe years have had some bad luck, I have and my friend who runs a independant shop ,turn away motors after peeking into the combustion chamber and seeing score marks and machine marks.
if you ever have a issuse with a sbt motor, do not remove the head !!!
this will void warranty !!!
ive have installed many 947 and 787 motors and upon start up, they sound real noisy and loose . you can tell by sound if a engine is sick or not.
a 947 engine gets what i call ' the death rattle', and for a new engine to sound like this , tells me the piston to cylinder wall clearance is excessive.
this can cause hard feelings with my customers when there engine goes before its time and they got to pay for shipping and labor to replace.
and YES when i install a engine i insist that i rebuild fuel system and go thru all other systems , cooling, timing ect, to verifie proper function.
but for the price , ya just cant beat them.
i suggest opt for the two year warranty and go for it!!
my two cents worth, dam, now im broke
mud

 

[seadoosnipe]

Very interesting...

i have had good and bad from sbt
im the years past, good luck with them, got tired of rebuilding engines from the ground up and much cheaper to use sbt
past coulpe years have had some bad luck, I have and my friend who runs a independant shop ,turn away motors after peeking into the combustion chamber and seeing score marks and machine marks.
if you ever have a issuse with a sbt motor, do not remove the head !!!
this will void warranty !!!
ive have installed many 947 and 787 motors and upon start up, they sound real noisy and loose . you can tell by sound if a engine is sick or not.
a 947 engine gets what i call ' the death rattle', and for a new engine to sound like this , tells me the piston to cylinder wall clearance is excessive.
this can cause hard feelings with my customers when there engine goes before its time and they got to pay for shipping and labor to replace.
and YES when i install a engine i insist that i rebuild fuel system and go thru all other systems , cooling, timing ect, to verifie proper function.
but for the price , ya just cant beat them.
i suggest opt for the two year warranty and go for it!!
my two cents worth, dam, now im broke
mud

I find this very intersting because I also did a quick research of the SBT warranty policy and what they quarantee.

While I have personally only bought and installed 13 (one since my last post of 12), I have never had a problem with their product, outside the issue with the RAVE valve I told ya'll about before.

While reading their warranty guidelines, it almost seems they are protecting themselves from litigation. I would be the first to get a lawyer and sue if there was something sold to me that was not what they bargained with me for. On their home page guide, it's specifically that all parts are within OEM standards. So, if you have a clearance between cylinder wall and piston that is over the tolerance of OEM specifications, that would seem to me, a breach of their contract between the buyer and seller.

But, as you read on, you'll see that all litigation must go through a mediator, that both parties must share cost of, then if not settled, to a court. The only place you can file a complaint with the justice system is in Pinellas County Florida. So, for me, living in Alabama, could be worth my money to take them to court for a breach of contract. But, for someone in Washington State or Oregon, this would not be feasible.

In checks and balances, you have to determine if chasing what's technically right, is worth the cost incurred. It might end up costing you several thousand dollars in fees, then still take a chance in losing the court battle.

They do pretty much make it hard to legally challenge them in court about the issue mud has brought up, out of spec clearances between cylinder and piston. Because to determine this, you have to remove the head for evidence to prove your point. But then, it falls under the legal contract that you just violated with SBT, so it almost appears like a no win situation to me. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and can't say what is legal and what is not. A judge once told me that what most people (he used the word citizens) might this is law, only because it sounds like a no brainer or logical, sometimes is not. He went on to say some of the laws we live by now are so outdated that it's hard to make judgements about things that seem most people would follow as law, when in fact it is not. (by the way, the judge is a member of my church).

Below is a copy and paste of the information I took from the home page of SBT on what they promise to do, including the part specifications, bore, 4 point testing and last, the warranty policy. The policy is in the legal mumbo jumbo so it's hard to decipher. I need Jethro Bodine to figure that one out for me...............read on!


The Test
All SBT engines undergo a four point testing program that includes compression, case and water side pressure retention, and deck height clearance. Engines must meet OEM specifications for all four tests.


New Parts
All SBT engines have new Standard or 1.0mm oversize SBT pistons, rings, bearings, SBT connecting rods, seals, and gaskets. SBT only buys its parts from reputable suppliers.


The written warranties provided hereunder are in lieu of all other warranties, expressed or implied, including all warranties of merchantability and warranties of fitness for a particular purpose. SBT shall not be liable to the user or buyer for any incidental, consequential, or special damages of any type. The exclusive remedy of the user or buyer and the limit of the liability or SBT, for all losses, damages, or injuries from the use of SBT parts, products or repairs (including claims based upon contract negligence, strict liability, or tort) shall be the replacement or repair remedies specified under the written warranties set forth herein below. These terms are an essential part of the bargain between the parties based upon the price of sale negotiated herein.

SBT warrants its standard remanufactured engines for a period of one (1) year from the date of the original purchase against any failure that would require replacement. In the event that an engine with a two (2) year warranty is purchased, all the same guidelines apply with the exception of the term. SBT's obligations hereunder are limited to the repair or replacement of the engine. The foregoing are the Buyer's exclusive remedies. The terms of the limited warranty are expressed on SBT's standard invoice and the terms are incorporated herein.
All warranty claims must be furnished to SBT, in writing, within a period of fourteen (14) days from Buyer's discovery of any defect or problem covered herein or must be reported to SBT, via telephone, with the issuance of a specific RGA number. Telephonic notice shall not be effective unless an authorization number is issued by SBT. From the date of notice to SBT, the Buyer must return the defective unit within thirty (30) days to SBT postage prepaid otherwise, all warranties hereunder are null and void. SBT assumes no liability for product returned to the factory without prior written approval. An approved warranty must arrive at SBT, properly marked with the SBT issued RGA number on the box and on any paperwork enclosed. The product must arrive including only the original parts supplied by SBT with the original purchase. SBT is not responsible for any extra parts left on your engine or crankshaft. Any parts left on your warranty will be discarded by SBT.
SBT assumes no liability for labor charges or damage to other components or assemblies resulting from failure of the engine. This warranty does not apply to an engine which been subject to modification or has been disassembled, including, but not limited to, removal of the head. Any warranty work performed by SBT does not extend the original warranty period of either one (1) year or two (2) years from the date of original purchase. The express written warranties set forth herein constitute the only warranties made by SBT in connection with this transaction. As noted herein below, all other warranties, express or implied, including warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, are expressly disclaimed. All limited warranties specified herein are conditioned upon Buyer's immediate notice to SBT of the alleged fault or defect.
This warranty does not apply to personal watercraft (PWC) used for rental or commercial purposes. SBT offers no warranty for PWC's used for rental or commercial purposes. Your account must be current and in good standing before SBT will perform any warranty work.
In the event that a Buyer asserts any claim against SBT, under the aforementioned warranties or otherwise, and if said claims are not resolved through negotiations between the parties, then all such claims and disputes shall be subject to non-binding mediation in Pinellas County, Florida, as a condition precedent to Buyer's asserting any legal action against SBT. Said mediation shall be conducted by a certified mediator under the laws of the state of Florida, and each party shall be responsible for paying an equal share of all mediation costs. This mandatory mediation shall be a condition precedent to the filing of any legal action or lawsuit. If said claims are not settled through mediation, all legal actions or lawsuits shall be brought exclusively in Pinellas County, Florida and the prevailing party shall be entitled to attorneys' fees and costs.The terms of this agreement shall be enforceable by any court of competent jurisdiction.
Venue for the enforcement of this agreement or for the resolution of any dispute between Buyer and SBT shall be abjudicated in Pinellas County, Florida, and venue for all suits shall be fixed in Pinellas County, Florida.

 

[custompartsguy]

Just my opinion here and nothing bad but nothing good, after reading all that it would seem they have been sued a few times as they are covering all bases it seems, To be honest I have heard more bad then good about them however at the same time how far can you throw that stone? Most times the story starts with a "freind of mine" so even if it did happen when a story passes from person to person it can change however at the same time it is hard to ignore all the bad stories. When I have my work done I am thinking of going to a local machine shop and haing them bore to my new pistons and check the crank for me and I will do the rest, as these machine shops (only) most provide a warranty if they assemble and they check runout and things just as sbt would so as long as you can find a machine shop that works on pwc engines and knows what they are doing to me I would use them am I saying steer clear of sbt, no not in any way I am just saying myself I am going to try a machine shop first as its even cheaper then sbt, but most times the machine shops only provide the machine work, its up to you to do the rest, that said = why its cheaper, if I do take to a machine shop for a top end and crank and bearing check I am out by the time its done less then sbt, I think sbt wanted $500 or was it $600 regardless I will pay about $250 for a top end kit and 150-$200 in machine work and the shop is close to me, so I do not have to ship or drive about 2 hours to sbt.

Once again this is just my opinion. SBT's products are tempting but in terms of an actual engine or only top end I have found cheaper sources however I cannot yet verify how good they are either. Once I check this place out I will let everyone know the results with updates after using.

To put into perspective more expensive is not always better but at the same time cheap is sometimes just that, I had a 500hp sbc engine built for less then $1600 including the engine and all parts because it was a smaller shop family ran.

Sometimes places worry me when they have way too much legal things listed.