SBT Impeller - Different numbers

[pincusa]

I called SBT for a refurbished impeller, but the one they sent me has a different number then the one I have.
Mine - 204160048
SBT - 271000856

I looked up 204160048 on the BRP web site, and it finds it as used in my boat (99 Challenger 1800). But the web site doesn't find the SBT impeller number.

Called SBT and they said it's fine to use. They say both a 30-130 prop. I only exchanged one impeller, so I'm still not sure...

Anyone know about this? Can someone tell me what boat a 271000856 impeller is from? Does SBT make their own props? Anyone have experience with these exchanges?

Thanks!

 

[pincusa]

Thanks! Can you post the link to the web site?
Only thing I can find is one ref to it being a high altitude prop

 

[seadoosnipe]

Pump and Impeller...?

That impeller is fine for your boat. The 99 Challenger impeller you have may be the original one. A lot of the time, you'll find part numbers that are superceeded by another part number. Your pump on the 99 Challenger is a single stage axial flow pump that was used on several year model Challengers, Speedster, Sportsters and some PWC's......it was a very popular make of pump and very durable too.

Your progressive pitch on both impellers match, according to my spec data sheet.

No, SBT does not cast or forge their own parts. They weld up and grind down cores to use for resale by highly qualified machinist. That impeller you got from SBT would cost about $225 bucks if you bought it. You got it for less than $30 bucks.

I don't see it as a problem to get worried over.........:cheers:

 

[pincusa]

Thanks! Once again, coming through with great info!

I wanted to make sure they matched since one side will still be the original prop and the other this reman'd one.

Off to finish up the pump rebuild and get them ready for the spring!

 

[seadoosnipe]

Twin engines.....?

I wanted the 1800 Challenger because of the twin engines but there wasn't one available to suit me in the time that I was looking to get my boat.

So, I got the 5603 model.

Normally, when you perform something that affects the output of a twin engine motor, you usually do the same change/repair to the other engine. I don't know why you sent the impeller in for replacement but you should have sent the other to. The reason is simple. Even though the other impeller looks good, over the course of time, the progressive pitch may flatten out a bit from use. It's probably not going to be noticed by it's handling,unless that other impeller is dinged up, risking cavitation.

If you put a new wearing ring on one pump, you should put one on the other. If your doing a rebuild on one pump, when you get it all finished, check the clearance on each ring with an angled feeler gage. Your likely to see a difference of a few thousandths of an inch.

I hope everything works out for you to your advantage. If you need help, just give a holler!.........:cheers:

 

[pincusa]

Yes, I have the Challenger 1800, so twin engines. It was almost a requirement for me since I wanted some backup for the engine just in case.

Both wear rings and pumps are being rebuilt together. It looks like one pump chewed up quite a bit of debris, and the impeller was in terrible shape. I don't know how, but it even had cracks on the trailing edge of two of the vanes!

But I understand what you're saying about replacing both props at the same time. I'll relook at the other tonight and maybe send it back out for replacement.

Right now I'm trying to deal with why the SBT wear rings seem too small. They slip right into the housing, and if you turn it upside down and shake, they fall out. Considering they should need to be pressed in, I'm not happy with this. I'm just going to be really pi*sed if I have to replace both housings after all this!

Thanks again for all the help! I'll update with how things turn out

 

[seadoosnipe]

White-ish?

It sounds like they sent you the rings for the newer model pumps. Check your order# and post your part# they sent to you.

Is there a lip on the outer edge? If these rings don't go in snug, then you can't use them. This is like the third time a member has gotten the wrong rings from them. I'll be calling to see why this is happening so much.

Meanwhile, if those rings don't fit, call them. Tell them how they are not going in snug according to the shop manual. See what they say. Use the forum as a reference as to why you shopped at SBT.

Good luck and hate to hear you didn't get what you paid for.

 

[pincusa]

Yeah, they're white. I'll have to lookup the PN tonight when I get home

I don't recall a lip on them since they slipped into the housing regardless of how it was oriented. They look like a single piece of derlin plastic with two strips of knurling.

I called SBT and they said, "Oh yeah, sometimes our rings don't fit all the pumps. We undersize them a little, so maybe you're the 10% that they don't fit. Send them back for a refund."

If you have the real PN of the rings that should have sent, can you post it? I'm thinking the Sea Doo PN should be 271000290. On the SBT page it says their is a replacement for that part number.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Part#......

Yeah, you have the correct part number for your wearing ring. What I was hoping was for you to find your order list from SBT and post the part number they sent you.

I'd like to call them too, but I need the part number from the one they sent.

But, what ever you do, don't install those rings......:cheers:

 

[pincusa]

The number on the SBT package is 78-101-02 So it looks like they sent me the ones that come up on the web page for the boat.

I guess I'm sending them back and looking for a cheap OEM supplier (I'm paying for shipping). I think this is it for SBT for me, even though their prices are nice. They already had one strike with me when the rave valve they sent me was their own casting even then on the phone they said it was OEM. I'll see how it holds up....

 

[fzandome]

small wear ring

I also had the same problem with one of their wear rings. Tried several of them and finally had to go with a ring that was available above. That one was snug as a bug in the rug. It also looked like the original OEM.

They try to compensate for the oversized pump housing by putting a knurling around the outside diameter of the white ring. That works sometimes. ( their tech assist told me it was an issue with the pump body, some are oversized)

I also noticed other people having the same problems with their ring on their forum site. I will never go back to them for new rings. My only concern now is; if the one that appeared snug (two eng boat) is on tight enough that it will not turn under power. I marked it so I can shine a light on it to see if it moved. I also had "other" problems with their parts. Not buying from them again.

I documented this wear ring issue and other issues with their parts last fall. http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=11157

 

[pincusa]

Fzandome - Thanks for sharing! Looking at your thread, it looks like the same problem and the same white wear rings. It really does sound like they have a problem with their rings. I ordered two of them, and neither one fit either pump. I measured them up, and the two rings were actually slightly off eachother. So while one was snug, the other was really lose.

They must be aware of the problem since the tech seemed to have an answer prepared saying that there are some pumps that the rings don't fit. Mine was one of them (or I guess my two pumps were two of them...)

At this point, I'm just more upset that it's costing me $12 to send them back! But I guess that's what I get for trying to save $10 each...

 

[fzandome]

If you conplain they will pay postage. Although I did not figure that out until my third return.
The one I got from this site worked very well.... In fact it was very tight. I stuck it in a freezer to shrink it a little and it was still tight.... That's what you want.

Good luck

 

[pincusa]

Update

So I sent back the SBT rings about bought real Sea Doo rings. They not only fit, but fit well! They don't just slide in like the SBT rings

So before I installed them, I decided to measure them and compare them to the SBT rings. They're about 0.2mm off in all dimentions! I.G. The ID of the rear SBT ring is 139.5mm. The Sea Doo ring measured 139.8mm So not only is the OD too small to need it pressed in, but the ID is bigger too (resulting in a more clearance around the prop)
I'll call SBT tomorrow and ask them about this. Being a mechanical engineer and spending a lot of time designing pieces and reverse engineering other people's pieces, I'm guessing that they don't have a real factory print to work off. And there's just too much tolerance stack up to make piece fit like a factory piece.

I hope this helps someone in the future if they find this thread via searching.

 

[fzandome]

I also noticed the difference to the inside diameter between the two rings. As you documented the white ring's inside diameter is not as tight as the OEM's ring. In fact, the impeller rubs on the OEM ring and was hard to install. ( It had to be just so to get it in the ring) Not the case with the SBT ring. It is still in tolerance as verified by the feeler gage, but not as tight as the OEM. Lesson learned. Spend the extra bucks and go first class.