RXP 06 TOPS circut and connector types

[mfmeyer]

Hello all,

I think the TOPS is bad on 06 RXP I am working on as I get a 10 ohm reading in UP position and no reading when Inverted - which are incorrect readings per shop manual. I did not get a P- code fault showing on Inst panel and do not have a BUDS or Candoo system to verify.
Based on readings I take it that the TOPS circuit can still fail w/o showing a code on inst panel?

My understanding of TOPS circuit is that this would also keep the RXP from starting normally until replaced??
Allows motor to turn over but not start is this correct?

I went thru shop manual and the boards trying to find any additional info on circuitry other than shutoff of oil system.

Secondly I am trying to ID the correct connector type for two areas:

(a) What is the connector type for the TOPS connector in the bow? - I know its 3 pin small flat blade type and think it is a Deutsch but could not find a marking on the case... want to build separate T/S connector - I improvised making one for the connector today at the lake for testing system.


(b) what type connector is on the ignition coils? The owner lost the gasket seal on IGN circut #3 when he replaced the spark plug and wanted to know if I could order a replacement for him.
I could not find a match online ..but thought it was close to a Deutsch DT series connector...

Unfortunately I forgot to take photos of the connectors - and the PWC is at a lake 40 mins from my house.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated ...
thank you for your time ...

 

[devonte007]

take a look at this thread:
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?78732-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-2009-2010-4-tec-technical-update-books-and-trouble-shooting!&highlight=technical+update

One of our members provided links to download all of the past Seadoo Technical Manuals. Download the 2004 version and take a look at the troubleshooting section. It goes into lots of detail about the OPS, OTPS and TOPS and how to troubleshoot. Should have all the info you need. May also want to browse some of the other technical manuals as they may have the info you are looking for.

Not sure I quite understand the problem you are having with the TOPS. The only thing the TOPS solenoid does is to close the crankcase breather if the engine (ski) tips over to prevent oil leaking out of the engine. Under normal operation the TOPS should be open and allow the crankcase to breath and not build pressure. If the TOPS if failing you will likely get a check engine light and code from the OTPS. A bad TOPS will not prevent the engine from starting or running really. If you take the oil fill cap off and hear pressure releasing then the TOPS is not opening and causing above normal crankcase air pressure.

What exactly is the problem with the motor, will it turn over but not start?

Can't help you with the connector types, sorry.

 

[mfmeyer]

Ok... that is what I thought wrt TOPS but shop manual states it would shut down the motor (p205) and all the schematic shows is a wire into the ECM so I was not sure if there was an additional step the ECM took.

So yes a person asked me to come out and look at the RXP - said their kid stated it was running fine and just quit in the middle of the lake and informed him of such about two days later. The guy replaced spark plugs and checked oil level and then tried to start it... turned over but did not start for him.

I went out to the house and checked out PWC.

Here is what I have done so far:

There are no codes from the inst panel...(do not have a BUDS or Candoo system). Get two beeps followed by 4 beeps if key left on as expected.

I have verified:

- Verified that motor does turnover no funny sounds

- Pulled plugs checked/gapped - turned motor over no water shooting out - just fuel mist (as expected)

- Battery is good (brought back and put it on charger overnight)

- All fuses are good/verified continuity-tested

- Visually confirmed Fuel pump is working and get fuel pumping thru fuel rail and injectors.

- Have spark on all 3 ignition coils/ voltage & resistance tests show them within specs per manual.

- Checked TOPS circuit - which I thought was intermittent and possibly keeping motor from starting.

Did not have compression gauge with me so did not check...

Did not check CPS...

Getting about 300-400 RPM showing when cranking to start motor - is this too low?

Did not try to start with TOPS sensor removed....

Is there something simple I am missing here??

thanks for assistance and verification of TOPS functionality...

 

[devonte007]

Thats funny, waited a couple days before telling dad the ski broke....

Anyway, seems like you have done all the normal troubleshooting tasks. Fuel, spark, air...

These engines don't usually just stop and not start up again. Even if it was a sensor or some electronic malfunction you would get a check engine light but the engine usually still runs even if it goes into a reduced rpm (limp) mode. I am wondering if some kind of mechanical system let go, like the supercharger.

My next step would probably be to perform a compression test and post your numbers. I would also pull off the intake hose on supercharger and see if you can spin the wheel with your fingers. It should be very tight and almost impossible to spin with your fingers. If if it free wheels you have a problem.

If compression tests good, then take the injectors out (you may have already done this) and make sure you are getting a nice good spray as the engine cranks. If you have compression, verified good spark and a good fuel spray i would be stumped.

Here is a good video from one of our members that may be helpful. He also has some other good 'how to' videos on his channel that may be worth reviewing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAGQA3LGdzE

That's all I can think of at the moment, but if I have any further inspiration I'll let you know. I'm sure others will chime in too. One way or another we'll do our best to help you get to the root of the problem...

Post those compression numbers when you have a chance and let us know how the supercharger looks.

 

[mfmeyer]

Thanks for the input. I skipped over the supercharger initially as I pulled it this winter for the guy and had it rebuilt by JoeZ here on the board.

The link above goes to Autodesk page... interestingly enough I happen to have Autocad on my laptop and it opened into that program - could you provide the link again greatly appreciate all the assistance .....

I pulled the fuel rail when I was out Friday afternoon- it seemed be getting good flow thru the injectors - but maybe I should pull and clean them....

 

[devonte007]

Totally sorry about that bad link, must have been in a hurry when typing this out....hopefully this is more correct to my original intentions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAGQA3LGdzE

 

[mfmeyer]

devonte007

Thanks for the updated link ... 3ftdeep guys are just up the road from me here in Seattle/Tacoma...

In addition to compression tests, I will have to look at injectors again - not sure it there was the same force as shown in his video... would be nice to be working at garage rather than on dock lift... much easier to move around

 

[mfmeyer]

As a follow-up ... I went back yesterday and was able to talk to the owner first hand - seems it died and they towed it back to dock - he was able to get it to start a couple times but died out almost immediately .... so suspecting it was a fuel issue I pulled line off fuel rail and checked pressure - good but noticed that color did not look quite right... so I pulled about quart of gas through hose in 3 small bottles I had with me - it went from mostly gas to getting worse to point of 2/3's water to gas mix....

So either I missed how bad it was Friday - or it settled out over the weekend that even a blind squirrel could see the bad gas yesterday....

So I hand pumped out 10 gals of bad gas on the dock ... poured in 3 gals of fresh fuel in - flushed out the fuel pump and injectors (#1 was a bit dirty compared to 2 & 3 but cleaned up) pressure test fuel system after connecting the hoses again ...and viola ... spark gas air - combustion... test rode no hesitation and smooth throttle response...

I'm sure there is more to story as to how that much water got into tank all of a sudden... but owner happy just needs to top off tank with more Good fuel!!!

My lesson learned - pull bigger fuel sample at beginning of fuel/air/spark T/S process ...

Thanks all for comments assistance ...

 

[Nike12000]

Ok... that is what I thought wrt TOPS but shop manual states it would shut down the motor (p205) and all the schematic shows is a wire into the ECM so I was not sure if there was an additional step the ECM took.

So yes a person asked me to come out and look at the RXP - said their kid stated it was running fine and just quit in the middle of the lake and informed him of such about two days later. The guy replaced spark plugs and checked oil level and then tried to start it... turned over but did not start for him.

I went out to the house and checked out PWC.

Here is what I have done so far:

There are no codes from the inst panel...(do not have a BUDS or Candoo system). Get two beeps followed by 4 beeps if key left on as expected.

I have verified:

- Verified that motor does turnover no funny sounds

- Pulled plugs checked/gapped - turned motor over no water shooting out - just fuel mist (as expected)

- Battery is good (brought back and put it on charger overnight)

- All fuses are good/verified continuity-tested

- Visually confirmed Fuel pump is working and get fuel pumping thru fuel rail and injectors.

- Have spark on all 3 ignition coils/ voltage & resistance tests show them within specs per manual.

- Checked TOPS circuit - which I thought was intermittent and possibly keeping motor from starting.

Did not have compression gauge with me so did not check...

Did not check CPS...

Getting about 300-400 RPM showing when cranking to start motor - is this too low?

Did not try to start with TOPS sensor removed....

Is there something simple I am missing here??

thanks for assistance and verification of TOPS functionality...

As I understand it it is a fail safe to shut down ski also when it flips in case lanyard is not pulled or whatever the case may be

 

[devonte007]

Awesome, glad you got it going with a simple fix! Thanks for following up.