• This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.

Rotax 787 bored out, recommended carb changes?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Had boats for many years, but never a ski...then I got a '96 GSX (for free!) about two years ago. Decided to do about a 75% resto since it was kept outside, no cover, for a good eight years. Everything was in pretty darn good shape, considering. Cleaned it all up and pulled the engine. Not sure how, but the PTO piston lost a piece of ring and was seized. Got it unstuck and pulled the top end apart. Scoring was substantial, wound up boring the maximum 1.5mm over. Put it all back together, compression and leak tests good (nearly 155psi on both cylinders). Since I had almost everything out, replaced the Tempo lines and fuel selector and rebuilt the carbs with genuine Mikuni parts. Needles looked brand new, seat and jets, too. No green goo anywhere except the outside edges of the nipples. Mag side carb filter was clean, PTO side was nearly full of gunk (not green goo, something else...looked like black sand). Both pop offs set at 34psi, held 10psi well over 5 minutes, so everything seemed great, adjustment screws to factory settings (L-1, H-0). All of these things were suggestions I read here and obviously instructions in the manual...but of course that only goes so far as well.
So at this point, I cross my fingers and hit the start switch. Cranks right up! (had primed both the new fuel lines and the oil injection system...50:1 in the fuel tank, full oil res) But then the headache...starts idling really rough, feeling like one cylinder is missing. Didn't want to throttle it much since I need to do break-in first, but giving it any throttle at all seems like it kills one cylinder, which comes back when you let off. Wet plugs, and even the slightest choke kills it, so I'm thinking it's running rich. Everything in the ski is stock except the pistons, but everything has been gone over with a fine-tooth comb and everything works (except the beeper). It really seems like the ONLY thing different is everything is clean and lubed...so carb settings/jetting is about the only thing left that might need to be different due to the bore job...yes? If so, what would those be...if not, what else do I check? It doesn't die if I run the low screws in all the way, just seems to run hotter. (oh yeah, and runs the same with or without the air box...but does run better right before it dies when I shut the selector valve) About to lose my mind...tactical fighter jets were easier to figure out than this!
 
Oh, wanted to add that I did do a search first (a bunch), and it seems like I'm the only one not running lean, and might be the only one who doesn't know if a bore requires changes, because those two things I didn't see any info on...carb setting threads everywhere, but all about aftermarket flame arrestors or lean issues, it seems!
 
You shouldn't have to change the jetting and if anything just a small turn richer on the screws.

If you are running rich is is probably the needle and seats or something you didn't replace like a diaphragm.
I never chance a new engine or new to me ski so they always get fresh Mikuni carb kits and needle and seats.
 
You shouldn't have to change the jetting and if anything just a small turn richer on the screws.

If you are running rich is is probably the needle and seats or something you didn't replace like a diaphragm.
I never chance a new engine or new to me ski so they always get fresh Mikuni carb kits and needle and seats.
Needle tips were perfect, sealed with 10psi indefinitely no leaks, 34psi pop off, genuine Mikuni kit installed. Wish I could post a video, I have a feeling someone could hear it run and say "Oh, I had that problem, and it was X"
Actually followed your carb rebuild thread, amazing help, that was!
 
A few other things come to mind like rotary valve timing and clearance. Also if a voltage regulator is going bad it can cause ti to miss and run poorly.
 
Have you put it in the water yet? I'd changed the needles/seats out but that's me. Like miki says little out on the HS needle couldn't hurt since you're at the max bore.

On my 97' GTX 787, complete bottom up rebuild, stock bore, I'm 1 turn out on the lows, 1/2 on the mag, 3/4 on the pto. No run issues, but initial issues with the new fuel selector, I run the stock oil injection with a 60:1 premix. I'm 3k on the trailer and about 1400-1500 in the water, top end at WOT I'm seeing 6650 - 6700. About 12 hrs since rebuild.

I'd check the spark plug wires, you could be losing spark, I clipped a 1/4" on each end for good measure. Dialectic grease in the spark plug boots, gap .22 Maybe double check RV timing, though it sounds like that's not the issue.
 
Last edited:
Have you put it in the water yet? I'd changed the needles/seats out but that's me. Like miki says little out on the HS needle couldn't hurt since you're at the max bore.

On my 97' GTX 787, complete bottom up rebuild, stock bore, I'm 1 turn out on the lows, 1/2 on the mag, 3/4 on the pto. No run issues, but initial issues with the new fuel selector, I run the stock oil injection with a 60:1 premix. I'm 3k on the trailer and about 1400-1500 in the water, top end at WOT I'm seeing 6650 - 6700. About 12 hrs since rebuild.

I'd check the spark plug wires, you could be losing spark, I clipped a 1/4" on each end for good measure. Dialectic grease in the spark plug boots, gap .22 Maybe double check RV timing, though it sounds like that's not the issue.
What were your initial run issues from the new selector?
 
What were your initial run issues from the new selector?

I have a thread I posted, but it would lose power beyond 3/4 throttle and pull back if I pegged WOT. It would recover when I let up. At idle, occasionally I'd see air bubbles in the fuel line going to the carbs and air in the line on the return, more than it should be. I have all clear fuel lines so I can see what's going on. I ended bypassing the fuel selector and it went away. I took the fuel selector apart (brand new) and found the rubber piece inside had twisted, I put some grease in it and some loctite around the fittings, I'm good now.
 
I have a thread I posted, but it would lose power beyond 3/4 throttle and pull back if I pegged WOT. It would recover when I let up. At idle, occasionally I'd see air bubbles in the fuel line going to the carbs and air in the line on the return, more than it should be. I have all clear fuel lines so I can see what's going on. I ended bypassing the fuel selector and it went away. I took the fuel selector apart (brand new) and found the rubber piece inside had twisted, I put some grease in it and some loctite around the fittings, I'm good now.
Gee, don't you just love it when you get a new part that's broken before you take it out of the box? Sadly, I have had that happen more than once...I typically forego the "free assembly on bikes, grills, etc, for the same reason.
 
Last edited:
Have you put it in the water yet? I'd changed the needles/seats out but that's me. Like miki says little out on the HS needle couldn't hurt since you're at the max bore.

On my 97' GTX 787, complete bottom up rebuild, stock bore, I'm 1 turn out on the lows, 1/2 on the mag, 3/4 on the pto. No run issues, but initial issues with the new fuel selector, I run the stock oil injection with a 60:1 premix. I'm 3k on the trailer and about 1400-1500 in the water, top end at WOT I'm seeing 6650 - 6700. About 12 hrs since rebuild.

I'd check the spark plug wires, you could be losing spark, I clipped a 1/4" on each end for good measure. Dialectic grease in the spark plug boots, gap .22 Maybe double check RV timing, though it sounds like that's not the issue.
Getting new needles/seats...bit the bullet and pulled the carbs, and it does look like the needles have an indentation ring. Must have still been wet when I was looking at them last time, but now that they are dry it is obvious. Hopefully that and increasing the pop-off by 6psi will be my solution...20180909_212921.jpg
 
Last edited:
Getting new needles/seats...bit the bullet and pulled the carbs, and it does look like the needles have an indentation ring. Must have still been wet when I was looking at them last time, but now that they are dry it is obvious. Hopefully that and increasing the pop-off by 6psi will be my solution...View attachment 37857

You shouldn't need to increase the pop off that high, if you have 34 psi now, that's fine. New needles/seats should be close to the same. Just verify it's close within a 1-2 for each carb. I'm in that ball park (35-36) with the 80 gram spring and new 1.5 needles/seats.
 
If you went 1.5mm over you need to trim the rave valve according to the shop manual.

Stock clearance on standard bore is .5mm. Minimum operating clearance is .375mm/.0105in from valve to piston.
 
Larger bore usually requires a leaner mixture. But at 1.5mm I dont think that's significant enough. Think of it as bigger also means more powerful suction or more airflow. Therefore more fuel and it's more than necessary.
If your that rich on low end and believe me my first gsx was just like that, look closer at the carbs while its idling. Look for fuel dribbling out of the small bullseye in the middle of the ventury.
Also. 38 psi is ideal but my experience going from 26 to 48 yielded no results except making it harder to start.

Are you sure it's actually gas on the plugs and not oil from the rotary valve seal?

I have also tried dropping pilot jet sizes down to 65 from 70 and that made it burn better but didn't fix any low end problems or midrange misfires. So I'm still leaning towards the fuel getting past the main jet when it shouldn't.
 
You shouldn't need to increase the pop off that high, if you have 34 psi now, that's fine. New needles/seats should be close to the same. Just verify it's close within a 1-2 for each carb. I'm in that ball park (35-36) with the 80 gram spring and new 1.5 needles/seats.
I'm at 34 psi with the 65 gram springs...
 
If you went 1.5mm over you need to trim the rave valve according to the shop manual.

Stock clearance on standard bore is .5mm. Minimum operating clearance is .375mm/.0105in from valve to piston.
Yes, my RAVEs are shaved...shop that did the bore also did that and checked all clearances (which I did again as I put it together...they were exactly what the shop said they would be, certainly giving them more of my business in the future!).
 
Larger bore usually requires a leaner mixture. But at 1.5mm I dont think that's significant enough. Think of it as bigger also means more powerful suction or more airflow. Therefore more fuel and it's more than necessary.
If your that rich on low end and believe me my first gsx was just like that, look closer at the carbs while its idling. Look for fuel dribbling out of the small bullseye in the middle of the ventury.
Also. 38 psi is ideal but my experience going from 26 to 48 yielded no results except making it harder to start.

Are you sure it's actually gas on the plugs and not oil from the rotary valve seal?

I have also tried dropping pilot jet sizes down to 65 from 70 and that made it burn better but didn't fix any low end problems or midrange misfires. So I'm still leaning towards the fuel getting past the main jet when it shouldn't.
How would I know if it's the RV seal, since it's the same oil? Also would be hard to tell since I'm running premix and injectors, but I doubt it's the RV seal both because of the condition of the needle tips, and my leak down test was good...so unless the seal failed in my first half-hour of break-in...
 
Larger bore usually requires a leaner mixture. But at 1.5mm I dont think that's significant enough. Think of it as bigger also means more powerful suction or more airflow. Therefore more fuel and it's more than necessary.
If your that rich on low end and believe me my first gsx was just like that, look closer at the carbs while its idling. Look for fuel dribbling out of the small bullseye in the middle of the ventury.
Also. 38 psi is ideal but my experience going from 26 to 48 yielded no results except making it harder to start.

Are you sure it's actually gas on the plugs and not oil from the rotary valve seal?

I have also tried dropping pilot jet sizes down to 65 from 70 and that made it burn better but didn't fix any low end problems or midrange misfires. So I'm still leaning towards the fuel getting past the main jet when it shouldn't.
Also, if there is fuel coming through the venturi at idle, how would you fix that?
 
Yeah go with the black 80g spring.
If it was leaking through the ventury at idle replace the needle and seat and up your pop off with the right spring. Don't forget to change the o-ring as well.
The RV seal doesn't leak statically. But does when the engine is rotating. At least mine was that way. Passed leakdown in the RV cavity but failed while spinning the crank and only leaked while rotating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top