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Please SOMEONE respond... seadoo 951xp no spark bout to blow it to pieces

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pivotworx

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Ok here is the deal I have posted 2 times before and nobody responds. Please someone help!!!!

Ok seadoo 951 xp. NO SPARK!!!

Changed mpem out of running 951 same issue... NO SPARK
Changed out stator...................................... NO SPARK
Changed out Coils........................................ NO SPARK
Checked all grounds..................................... NO SPARK
I get a lil fire every now and then. Enough to make it pop and sputter. I can stick a screwdriver in the plug boot and every once in a while I feel a tingle. We all know this gives you a jolt not a tingle. I have replaced anything related to spark. Gages dont seem to work either. trim does. Ski 2 chirps when key is installed. NEW battery. Then I put in another new battery thinking it was a battery issue. Can a wiring harness give headaches like this? this is the last thing I can think of replacing that is tied to the spark. Im at a total loss. I have never been stumped like this.
 
check for corrosion at all of the connections, especially at the plug in the MPEM and anything going to the ignition. did you test the resistance on your coil pick up and the coil windings on the new coil also? make sure you're getting signal when cranking from the pickup coil as well.
 
Electrical gremlins on these things can be a pain in the ass. Unless it is something obvious they are not easy to find but it sounds like you are on the correct path with swapping out components.
What year is the XP? Seadoo made many running changes to MPEM's and electrical components so the donor electronics should be from the same year.
If it is cranking over then you probably have at least one good positive and ground connection.
The MPEM sends out the signal to the coils to spark and is triggered by the pickup coil in the MAG housing. The Stator provides the power to the coils and charges the battery. If you replaced the MPEM with a known good one from the same year and model ski you should be able to eliminate that. Make sure you use the DESS key from the other ski too because it will only let it fire with the correct key and they are coded to the MPEM.
It sounds like your coils are good.
Check the pins to the MPEM for corrosion and the pins for the connector tho the MAG housing.
The voltage regulator can cause strange running issues but some of them are built into the MPEM depending on the year.
I would also suspect the pickup coil in the MAG housing because it can get metal on it and it is what tells the MPEM when to spark.
If all this checks out the only thing left would be the harness.
 
Mikidymac hit it here:


"I would also suspect the pickup coil in the MAG housing because it can get metal on it and it is what tells the MPEM when to spark."

I suspect the magneto's been compromised. if water gets in there your sensor and the magneto will rot.

On the XP, you CAN remove the magneto without disturbing the pipe or carbs.

you'll have to suspend the pipe from above with a strap around it or clip to the engine.

remove the front engine mount bolt.

remove the oil pump lines, or remove oil pump and place it aside.

remove the dozen or so 10mm bolts that hold the magento cover on

carefully remove the cover, noting the tiny black round pointed oil pump drive shaft. it's small, it's black, and it's plastic.

DON'T DROP IT. or the bilge gods win. Drop a virgin wrench bathed in WD-40 instead to appease the bilge gods.

ok, so I missed the connector on the front, remove that too, it's grey/orange and has.. 6 pins? maybe 9.

anyway, on the inside front of the magento cover is a sensor that tells the computer the.. Crankshaft Position Sensor. (I got tired of typing).

If you don't know what a CPS is, you probably shouldn't be doing this.

anyway, I believe you can bench test the sensor... or if it's covered in rust, buy another

MineTonka (I can never spell his name) sells used stuff at good prices. Buy an OEM new or used one. Don't waste time with after market crap.

When you go to replace this, make sure both mating surgaces are clean, and that you've put the seal in correctly... buy a new one of thoses as well. not used. not aftermarket. NEW. Don't make me tell you again.

And I don't believe you need any RTV stuff. I just press the seal in (it will seem to long, but it's not) to the front plate, then use tiny, tiny, tiny, bits of super glue on the spots that won't stay put.

Good luck.

and before you shoot it, I offer a no questions asked 951 drop off service. My driveway.

Also, if you mixed 1998 and 1999 parts on the 951... you're gonna have a bad time.
 
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Yup I was gonna ask the same thing....you swapped from your 99 to the 00 and vice versa? If you know the pickup is clean in the stator housing, its gotta be in the wiring or the connectors.

Check the square connectors both on the front mag housing and out of the black box. Id put money on one of those being bad or a rotten ground.
 
Ok thank you peeps for the input!!! MOST APPRECIATED!!!! Ok lets start from the beginning!
Ski is a 99 I found it just a few miles from my shop and been sitting for 5 years with a crapped engine. I then went to the marina just 30 miles from my house going through his skis and I found my donor. 1998 GSX 951 with 50 hours but had fiberglass damage and owner abandon. 500.00 and minus the jetpump I had my donor engine. I pulled in shop shot a lil gas in the plugs and low and behold it fired. Good enough for me I began to pull the engine and do my swap. I went ahead and bought new gaskets just to be safe and I wanted to peak around the engine to make sure i was not wasting my time.... anyways... Swap went great engine looked good internally good compression. So I left the 99xp the exact same just a 98 engine. Sooooo I go to start and its sputtering and then i crank again and kid you not it sounded like a 12gauge shot gun just went off in the rear hatch. Scared people 100 feet away... So it blew a 2 inch hole in exaust hose that feeds waterbox to resonator... So I order new exaust hose and thought lets just swap computers as well to be safe. New hose 98 computer with 98 engine in 99 seadoo xp. Bam thing fires right up sounds awesome no issues. I run this on the hose for about 5 min then I get this 2 or 3 second beeeeeeeeeep ski is still running and about 5 min later same thing. Ski is not overheating runs awesome! So lake day this is last labor day I put in water go out of wake zone hit gas and it would only go 4000 rpm and would not break 20 mph. Then I took out of water fired it up wrapped it out sounds great!!!!! put back in water same thing. I was like screw it I got back up toys and parked. I winterized last year as it still fired up just fine and parked it. I broke it out 2 weeks ago and here I am. So now it has 98 coils 98 stator 98 mpem. And it does the exact same thing as it has done since i tried starting it before I started swapping parts. It is a beautiful machine that was covered and barn kept maybe has 50 hours on it. I have seen traces of mice nests in the hull. I have not checked anything as I just figured if I have swapped all of this and nothing has changed then were do I go. The only thing I have not changed is flywheel or main wiring harness. I hope nobody fell asleep reading my novel.
 
I just put a mag on from a 99 engine and it still does the same thing. Can the pickup be bad on the flywheel???
 
Oh and I know this is foolish on my part as its probably something dumb but I will take 1000.00 for it. I have a flawless ebay account with lots of powersports sales. Bike is very nice for the year! I got about any part for a 951 except a wiring harness...go figure
 
You need everything to match up. use the 99 mpem, 99 black ebox, 99 mag/flywheel. If you took the mag cup off the flywheel you might have turned it around 180 which wont work.

Guarentee your problem is one of those considering all your swapping.
 
So let me clarify as I am getting confused.

First if you are swapping electronics everything must either be 1998 or 1999, you can use 1998 parts with 1999 parts either all or none.

Second you say that it sounds and runs awesome up to 4,000 rpm. So does it have spark and run or not?

If it runs fine up to 4,000 rpm and has been sitting for years then to me it sounds like you have a classic seadoo fuel issue not spark. All gray fuel lines need to be replaced, fuel filter cleaned/replaced and carbs rebuilt with genuine Mikuni parts. Sounds to me like the carbs are plugged with junk and you are running lean causing it to only run up to 4,000.
 
this ski actually ran last fall after I did the swap it would rev up and wrap out but would not hit over 4000 would not budge over it!!! I tried running it muliple times. I have rode a ski with the famous gray fail lines and this was totally different. So I go to pull out this spring and I have 0 fire hitting the plugs. So yes this ski has ran after the swap with a 98 mpem 98 flywheel and 98 stator. I just put on a 99 stator and I think that was a no no for sure. Or I put a 99 flywheel on it. I just dont get why it ran after the swap (not like It should of) but now 5 months later no spark and I didnt change anything. I actually have the 98 gsx computer in a 1999 xp 951 that I just rebuilt and I had this ski on the water and it ripped! (I have 3xp) one 98 and 2 99. The 98 computer is different than the 99 but the 1998GSX computer has the same plugs and plugs right in. The 98 xp I have I went to pull the computer and they are def different as far the plug ins go.
 
Have you tore into the carbs? If it's not going over 4000 rpm it could be a fuel delivery issue as someone stated above.
 
I'm guessing it only hit 4k rpms was because it was only firing on 1 cylinder due to the 98 mag cup single coil system pickup on the 98 motor. The 951 will actually run very well on a single cylinder, just won't make good power or get rpms up.

If you run a 99 MPEM, you have to run the dual coil set up, and have to have the 99 mag cup.
 
Ok update!!!! I have changed all parts and it does the same thing. I went as far as buying a used main wiring harness. I took off the stator and replaced it with the one that came on the engine originally cleaned it well making sure any minute piece of metal was removed which there wasnt much, also checked the flywheel I thought the key might of sheared and every 5-7 seconds it would catch no dice it was fine.. Coil box was switched with same year, put new wires on the coils... Cleaned grounds with sand paper and were it connects to front stator cover. This thing will pop and sound like its about to fire. I actually stuck a screw driver in the plug boot and about every 5-7 seconds i get a good zap. When cranking over with plugs in im actually pushing exaust visibly out. This is something so minute that im going to kick my own ass after I find out what it is. Im at a loss... I have a few hundred repairs under my belt from any issue you name it. This has me completely lost... I found the exact same guy having the exact same ski doing the exact same thing and he had done everything I had described to a T.... Then his post just goes dead!!!!! I will pay someone 500.00 to tell me what the problem is. This ski is in my personal collection and is a beautiful xp for the year I just want it to run!
 
Have you confirmed the proper location for the mag cup? You never mentioned this and might be the most important part. See Sabr's vid above. To confirm spark and timing, use a dc timing light(most cheap auto ones will work fine), put a mark on the pto flywheel at 12 o'clock position when the mag cylinder is at TDC. When cranking, with timing light on mag cyl, the mark will be seen at, or very close, the 12 o'clock position. If it's not a steady flash on the mark straight up, your mag cup is off and it will never run right.
 
10/4! I have left it pretty much accessible as a few bolts I can pull stator cover off engine I actually pulled it off with the pipe still in tact which I should of just pulled. Anyways I will be doing this next. I have just had on back burner and whenever I get free time pull it out and start messing with it. I by far have more time in this ski than any other ski I have ever worked on. I just wish someone would see this post and be like yup mine did this exactly and I did this and done! Anyways I am taking any and all advice and appreciate everyone taking the time to read. I am not going to let this thing win!:facepalm:
 
I have read through all of this.

But if it ran when you put it away last in one of your post #8. ( albeit it wouldn't go over 4k rpms, it still ran and had spark) Then there is an underlying issue as to why it won't run now.

and you at that point after parking it, and trying to get it going again recently it wont run...I would really lean towards a fuel issue (like carbs [MENTION=57566]thomps33[/MENTION] mentioned in feb. I know that these can run ok on 1 cylinder as the 951 experts have mentioned above, but if it ran before parked at all, and now doesn't run at all. Then there is another issue. How exactly are you checking the spark?


Rob
 
plugs are wet after cranking away on it. I can pull plugs and let cylinders dry out, new plugs screw back in. and I will get the popping and sputtering. I watched the plug while grounded out on the engine and it would only spark sparatic maybe every 5-7 seconds. So I just bit the bullet stuck a screw driver in the boot was holding it and I got a good jingle every 5-7 seconds. It is hitting hot spark but not constant. I just dont know why it would send spark hot and then nothing.
 
I too had a starting issue with my xpl. Did a complete rebuild on the entire machine and when i went to fire it up, no matter what i did, i couldnt get spark, and when i did, it was not consistent. Long story short, turned out to be a couple of factors.

1. Bad starter. The starter bench tested perfectly fine, but in reality was defective. The unit was drawing too much current and wasnt allowing enough power to the MPEM. This would then prevent the MPEM from being able to operate optimally. I could only get the ski to fire, or pop, during start-up when i gave the battery extra current from a battery jumper. (i know, a no no) and there was obvious change in rotating speed of the starter and rotating assembly with the added current. So problem number 1 was the starter.

2. The next issue was my MPEM. Once I put a new starter in the machine, the ski would run on the first start but would not allow me to kill it and then fire it back up. Swapped out an MPEM out of GTX machine and all problems were solved. The ski would fire up each time. (verified by putting old MPEM back, and old symptoms returned)

I know you said the u already changed starter and MPEM, but i did both as well, just had to do the starter first to ensure MPEM was getting the proper power. These were my experiences with getting my xp to fire and get spark. Hopefully this helps.
 
Make it easy to see if you have spark and keep the plugs in, go to Harbor freight and get a spark tester, you will see the spark and how strong, if strong looking spark it is the plugs, if the spark is week, or not consitant then to me it has to be the pick up coil, if the pick up has been replaced then, look at the MPOE, if a good MPOE, then the coil it self in the black box, if you know the coil works good then the wires just m2c
 
I have never tried boosting the battery while in it since this issue. Soooo now im going to try the starter as I never did change that out. I am going to harbor freight and getting the tool to check spark. As far as the mpem. I have or had 2 iden xpl. I took the mpem out of the one that has no fire put it in the one I just sold and ski ran as it should and all gauges worked. So the starter is the only thing electrical I have not tried. Im kinda excited as it sounds very promising. I will keep the post alive til its running!
 
Ok... sunday which is my day for wrenching and I start off with both plugs out of cylinders grounded each on the engine. Go to crank it up both plugs nice blue flash great spark. You can crank after and there is nothing. Stop try to hit the button cranks over and no spark. Disconnect key and plug back in and hit the button nice blue flash then nothing! Verified the flywheel and its were it should be. I just dont understand that you can have fire and then it just goes away to nothing.
 
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