Oil injection problem (haven't found this on other threads) please help

[Bartoncraft]

97 seadoo challenger with replaced 787 carbed. I am putting this boat back together piece by piece and I've run into a problem I can't figure out with the oil injection pump.

1. Maybe relevant maybe not: I bought a used engine with verified good compression.

2. I have replaced (engine didn't come with) magneto, flywheels on both mag and pto, oil injection pump, carbs (used and not rebuilt), rave valves, rave rotary valve cover, and mag side cover. Basically, if it looked dodgy on the old motor I replaced it with a verified good OEM used part.

The problem: I cannot get the oil injector hash marks to line up. When I replaced the carbs I verified it was the right part #. The throttle cable has a ton of slack in it, but moves the carbs into the correct position when it does engage. The oil pump isn't even close to lining up no matter how i adjust the pump cable from the carbs. If I put a little pressure on the carb armature that is attached to throttle it moves a little additionally and I think I could line it up then, but I kind have to make it do it. I have set low/high speed on the carb to specs in the manual and based on what I have read in this forum. When I set the low/high I did notice that they were set at 1/2 turn out on high speed and 2 1/2 turns on low. I did not touch the idle adjust since I assume I would do it with the engine running. I am at a loss and could use any help you can offer.

 

[rusty nail]

when the throttle cable is set (a little slack when the carb springs closed) this is when you set the adjustment on the separate shorter cable that runs to the oil pump. this shorter cable mounts to a separate location on the armature on the carb then travels to the oil pump and the adjustment for the oil pump is right close at the pump where the cable mounts.

 

[Bartoncraft]

when the throttle cable is set (a little slack when the carb springs closed) this is when you set the adjustment on the separate shorter cable that runs to the oil pump. this shorter cable mounts to a separate location on the armature on the carb then travels to the oil pump and the adjustment for the oil pump is right close at the pump where the cable mounts.

You might have to explain it to me barney style... I'm a little slow today....so the throttle is in the idle position right? I know where the adjustment to the oil injector is made on the pto side carb cable. The prob is that even in the idle position on throttle and the oil Injector cable as far as it can go to adjust the Injector to line up its still not lining up. There's no more room on the Injector cable (pto side of carb) to adjust. The idle adjust screw that changes how far the throttle armature swings affects it some, but i don't know what the flappy thing in the carb is supposed to look like at idle. Is it supposed to be all the way closed and then adjust once i have machine running? If i have to do it that way how do i ensure that the Injector is still "timed" right? I don't know if that makes sense but i sure do appreciate you trying to help me

 

[rusty nail]

the idle speed out of water will be a little higher than in the water.....i cannot remember the settings. But yes, with the flappy things (lol) closed, the idle will be set with the throttle cable having a little slack. With this set (or close to set like you said you will play with this once the airbox is back on as well) you will adjust the oil cable. if you are saying you cannot get the "lines" to line up on the oil pump you may have the cables hooked up improperly. maybe snap a few photos of where your connections are and post them here.

 

[Bartoncraft]

the idle speed out of water will be a little higher than in the water.....i cannot remember the settings. But yes, with the flappy things (lol) closed, the idle will be set with the throttle cable having a little slack. With this set (or close to set like you said you will play with this once the airbox is back on as well) you will adjust the oil cable. if you are saying you cannot get the "lines" to line up on the oil pump you may have the cables hooked up improperly. maybe snap a few photos of where your connections are and post them here.

 

[Bartoncraft]

I have mag side bottom connected to throttle, mag side top connected to choke, pto side goes to oil injector.

 

[mikidymac]

Looks pretty close to being aligned.
I don't like that Gray Tempo hose still on the carbs.
What oil are you using?

 

[Bartoncraft]

Looks pretty close to being aligned.
I don't like that Gray Tempo hose still on the carbs.
What oil are you using?

I forget the brand. I read posts and landed at one that seems "meh" while I'm waiting to order better.

 

[Bartoncraft]

Looks pretty close to being aligned.
I don't like that Gray Tempo hose still on the carbs.
What oil are you using?

The problem is... that's with the idle adjustment screw backed out to the point where it's not even touching the armature on the carb. When i screw that in even a little it gets wacky with being unable to even get it close

 

[mikidymac]

Sounds like you have it either indexed or routed wrong on the carb end.
Adjusting the idle screw to increase the idle should make the oil pump cam move counterclockwise which would give the pump more oil and cause you to have to back off the cable adjustment to align the marks.
Something is wrong with your cable.

 

[Bartoncraft]

Sounds like you have it either indexed or routed wrong on the carb end.
Adjusting the idle screw to increase the idle should make the oil pump cam move counterclockwise which would give the pump more oil and cause you to have to back off the cable adjustment to align the marks.
Something is wrong with your cable.

The cable seems solid. No kinks, breaks and inner part moves freely on both throttle and Injector cable. I think i may indeed have the adjustments wrong from the point where it connects to the throttle to the point where it hits the carb but i have no idea how to start over and just take it from zero to accurately adjusted. I've never really been good with visualizing how these types of cables interact so it's probably something I've gotten wonky. Any suggestions how to start over?

 

[mikidymac]

Maybe someone with a lot of 787's sitting around like @etemplet could post a picture of the correct oilpump cable routing at the carbs.

 

[etemplet]

Yep I do have a lot of 787's. Installing the carbs and oil pump tomorrow. I gotta look in my pile to see if I have a cable. It may take longer to find one than install it.

Note: These are old pictures duringcarb disassembly.
Top picture is the end that connects to the oil pump "In this picture the pump is not adjusted properly." (Bottom Picture you can see how and where the cable connects to the carb. I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow if all goes well.

 

[mikidymac]

Yep I do have a lot of 787's. Installing the carbs and oil pump tomorrow. I gotta look in my pile to see if I have a cable. It may take longer to find one than install it.

Note: These are old pictures duringcarb disassembly.
Top picture is the end that connects to the oil pump "In this picture the pump is not adjusted properly." (Bottom Picture you can see how and where the cable connects to the carb. I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow if all goes well.


View attachment 65948

View attachment 65949

Can you post a picture of the cable connected to the throttle cam on the PTO carb please. Thanks @etemplet

 

[etemplet]

Yes I will but as you know, you can't miss it there is only one place it can go. I got tied up today as well finding 10 things that I needed to do first. I think I'm out of peripheral stuff now... carbs are next. Owner bought new carbs with accelerator pumps, the blocked off all the hose connections for the pump. I wonder if this model uses an orifice in the pump line. Oh well, I digress.


I found a couple but not exactly what I wanted. This are pictures in my files.



This bottom picture may be a little confusing as carbs are not in the mounted position.

 

[etemplet]

Here's more.

 

[Bartoncraft]

Yes I will but as you know, you can't miss it there is only one place it can go. I got tied up today as well finding 10 things that I needed to do first. I think I'm out of peripheral stuff now... carbs are next. Owner bought new carbs with accelerator pumps, the blocked off all the hose connections for the pump. I wonder if this model uses an orifice in the pump line. Oh well, I digress.


I found a couple but not exactly what I wanted. This are pictures in my files.

View attachment 65952

This bottom picture may be a little confusing as carbs are not in the mounted position.

View attachment 65954

OK. My connections are all on the right place. The problem I'm having is that i have the cables adjusted as far as they can go and i still need a little more to get it to line up. I thought maybe the idle adjust screw was in too far so i backed it off all the way "screw not even touching the armature and it lines up that way: all cables adjusted as far as they can go, idle adjust all the way out. If it lines up with the idle adjust barely touching the carb's armature am i good to go? I assume that when i adjust the idle to "idle to faster that it'll naturally increase oil injection, but am worried that since i have the cables adjusted as far as they can go that I'm doing something wrong. Or is it just the way that happens sometimes? All cables seem solid, no breaks in exterior sheathing and the interior cable moves freely. I'm just a little concerned that I'm missing something.

 

[etemplet]

The oil pump is adjusted after the idle is set and throttle is adjusted properly.

 

[Bartoncraft]

OK.... I'm ashamed. I think the steering wheel was turned when i was zeroing this in. The steering wheel has a cable that also connects to the throttle to help by accelerating some during turns ( stabilizes and smooths turns in the boat) the steering/ throttle cable was damaged in a place i couldn't see so I'll still have to replace the cable, but at least now i understand to keep the freaking wheel pointing straight

 

[mikidymac]

Silly Boats, stick to PWC's

 

[rusty nail]

glad you figured it out.