OIL 95 Xp tc-w3

[96seadooxpBC]

This may sound like a stupid question but hey, thats what we are here for, to ask questions. When i bought my 95 xp the previous owner was using tc-w3 outboard engine oil ( eeek! bad i know ) and the resovoir still has about, half a tank of it in there, as im still running the stock oil injection system. Should i siphon it the hell outta there? ive read the oil sticky, and know i should be running the syn recommended by seadoo. or should i just run it down then switch over? will the Synthetic i put in after the TC-W3 cause a chemical reaction and screw up my 717cc internals? ive read alot about that, mixing synth and minerals, i dont wanna screw anything up.

Thanks in advance for giving me some advice.

cam

 

[95spi]

I would get it out of there. Actually, if it were me, I would drain it out, convert the thing to pre-mix, and never worry about lube again. I use amsoil HP injector for pre mix

 

[96seadooxpBC]

I would get it out of there. Actually, if it were me, I would drain it out, convert the thing to pre-mix, and never worry about lube again. I use amsoil HP injector for pre mix

I was going to convert, but im hesitant, seadoosnipe on here really commends the reliability of the stock oil pumps, and i dont really have the money ( im 20 )to buy THAT much oil ie. everytime im empty. mixing up, its just so much easier to head to the pump and fill up. i see what your saying, it would guarantee my engine, and make me never worry..

 

[95spi]

Yeah, I understand. Well to me the peace of mind is worth it, and i'm 18. So i get the money factor.

 

[96seadooxpBC]

hey cool cheers man, good to know theres some other kids on here our age, thanks for the advice bro im gonna get some of that hp.
:cheers:

 

[95spi]

Yep no problem, I see you're in North Vancouver, I bet riding season down here in Kansas comes a little sooner than up there, Eh?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Your Injection system?

I was going to convert, but im hesitant, seadoosnipe on here really commends the reliability of the stock oil pumps, and i dont really have the money ( im 20 )to buy THAT much oil ie. everytime im empty. mixing up, its just so much easier to head to the pump and fill up. i see what your saying, it would guarantee my engine, and make me never worry..

If your injection system is working, do not go to premix. This is a bad idea. And yes, your right, I do not recommend the premix. In the long run, it'll damage the Rotax engine too. It's caused from carbonizing. This is when the oil is burned to a point it makes a glass like barrier on your metal surfaces. This will slow the heat transfer, insulating the motor.

The TCW 3 oil needs to go. But, if it's been running this oil for a while, don't panic. You'll be fine. You can go from mineral to synthetic but not from synthectic to mineral.

I use the Quicksilver brand of "Full Synthetic" oil. It's a non NMMA, non TCW-3 oil. You may find this at your local Mercury dealer. Just make sure you read the back of the bottle. It comes with a recommendation that it can be used in Seadoo's specifically.

When your oil is low enough, I'd remove the oil line that goes to the top of the tank. This is the vent off your rotary. Then, at the bottom of the tank, you have two lines. One with a small white filter in it. The filter is the line going to your oil injection pump. Don't mess with it.

Remove the other line, this is the inlet to your rotary. Take a shop vac that you don't mind getting a little oil into. Hold that inlet line from the rotary into the shop vac. The oil will be removed from the rotary chamber, as long as you also have that vent line open.

Now, when you attach everything, fill up with the synthetic oil. The oil remaining in your injection system will burn off and then, you'll be into the synthectic. Your done. Your rotary chamber will automatically fill with the new oil and your now injecting it.

Injection pump? This is a simple gear type pump that is self lubricated by the oil it's moving. If you have no frey's in your cable ends, do not go to premix.

The Rotax engine works on a variable rate of injection. Hypothetically, when your at idle, you may be at a mix of 12:1 or less. When at WOT, you may be at 50:1. If you premix, this means your setting the motors oiling system up for full power running only. Which means, at lower speeds, your going to be fouling plugs, smoking really bad and eventually, carbonizing the internal components of the engine. Do not disconnect your oil pump and premix unless you are certain you have a problem with your oil pump.

BTW, I used to be 18 once. Even then, as a hot rodder, oiling properties were still the same. Premix is not cost effective and not good for the Rotax rotary engine..........:cheers:

 

[95spi]

I fail to see how premixing (while maintaining a bath for the rotary) can damage the engine. Also, I think youre a tad confused on your ratios. 12:1 at idle? thats a little excessive. Its more like 80:1 at idle and 32:1 at WOT. You got them backwards too. Nobody will ever agree on pre mixing or leaving the injection system intact, but for me, the peace of mind of always getting lubrication is worth it. Also, its not usually the pump that fails, its the lines that crack or clog, starving your engine of oil.

 

[voodoo]

I think snipe got the ratio upside down but not the carbonizing, what I do early in the season is mix the first tank premix and mark the tank with a pencil line on masking tape to be sure the oil system is working and once this has been proven I relax the premix but always leave 2 gals of premix in the glove box, I am about 2 1/2 times 18 with a streamlined forehead if that makes any difference.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Your so right....

I think snipe got the ratio upside down but not the carbonizing, what I do early in the season is mix the first tank premix and mark the tank with a pencil line on masking tape to be sure the oil system is working and once this has been proven I relax the premix but always leave 2 gals of premix in the glove box, I am about 2 1/2 times 18 with a streamlined forehead if that makes any difference.

Yeah, that was my bad. I was actually out in my shop, recording a vid taking out the fuel baffle and doing a resistance check when I happened on this thread. So,... multi-tasking caught me off guard and I scrambled it. But, more importantly, remember I specifically said, "hypothetically".... That means, I have no idea of the true oil to fuel ratio at idle. Only that with the VROI system, it's a lot less at idle than at full throttle.

If you want to premix, that's fine. My advice was intended to help 96seadooxpBC make a decision between premix and VROI.

But, to respond to your statement; I don't think I"ve ever run across an oil line that was cracked or dry rotted. I know, I've run across a lot of them that had the paint on the pump to manifold lines that when rolled between your fingers, would crack and flake off. But, that's paint, not cracking lines. As long as you maintain oil in your lines, don't let them dry out, you shouldn't have to worry about them. The way I check oil and fuel lines is by squeezing them together with my thumb and forefinger. If you can't squeeze them together, they are too stiff, then you need to replace them. If an oil line becomes hard, it can break. I've seen this happen with oil lines that come to close to a heat source.

If your oil injection pump works, then marking the tank as mentioned by Voodoo is a good way to ensure, your oil pump is working. It's my preference to run for about 5 minutes at WOT, then read my plugs. I do this again at idle, for about 5 or 10 minutes. I just did this Tuesday on my GTX.

Oil injection verses Premix?.... It's like Republicans and Democrats, there will always be opposing views. You've decided to err on the side of motor safety, I err on the side of engine oiling requirements. Two different views trying to achieve the same goal.

Carbonization is a real and potential danger to heavy premix. In most cases, the motors don't last long enough for this to be problematic. If you've got the money and don't mind the smoke, then for the life of a 95 engine, you'll probably be fine.

 

[96seadooxpBC]

If your injection system is working, do not go to premix. This is a bad idea. And yes, your right, I do not recommend the premix. In the long run, it'll damage the Rotax engine too. It's caused from carbonizing. This is when the oil is burned to a point it makes a glass like barrier on your metal surfaces. This will slow the heat transfer, insulating the motor.

The TCW 3 oil needs to go. But, if it's been running this oil for a while, don't panic. You'll be fine. You can go from mineral to synthetic but not from synthectic to mineral.

I use the Quicksilver brand of "Full Synthetic" oil. It's a non NMMA, non TCW-3 oil. You may find this at your local Mercury dealer. Just make sure you read the back of the bottle. It comes with a recommendation that it can be used in Seadoo's specifically.

When your oil is low enough, I'd remove the oil line that goes to the top of the tank. This is the vent off your rotary. Then, at the bottom of the tank, you have two lines. One with a small white filter in it. The filter is the line going to your oil injection pump. Don't mess with it.

Remove the other line, this is the inlet to your rotary. Take a shop vac that you don't mind getting a little oil into. Hold that inlet line from the rotary into the shop vac. The oil will be removed from the rotary chamber, as long as you also have that vent line open.

Now, when you attach everything, fill up with the synthetic oil. The oil remaining in your injection system will burn off and then, you'll be into the synthectic. Your done. Your rotary chamber will automatically fill with the new oil and your now injecting it.

Injection pump? This is a simple gear type pump that is self lubricated by the oil it's moving. If you have no frey's in your cable ends, do not go to premix.

The Rotax engine works on a variable rate of injection. Hypothetically, when your at idle, you may be at a mix of 12:1 or less. When at WOT, you may be at 50:1. If you premix, this means your setting the motors oiling system up for full power running only. Which means, at lower speeds, your going to be fouling plugs, smoking really bad and eventually, carbonizing the internal components of the engine. Do not disconnect your oil pump and premix unless you are certain you have a problem with your oil pump.

BTW, I used to be 18 once. Even then, as a hot rodder, oiling properties were still the same. Premix is not cost effective and not good for the Rotax rotary engine..........:cheers:[

Thanks alot for the reply snipe, i had figured this, since the pump works on how fast the engine is running (rpms) im guessing. Im gonna keep my oil pump, the ski i have was meticulously maintained, and about 30 hours on the rebuild makes me believe the pump is just fine. plus ive been told the 717 is a pretty reliable motor, with the right care of course. good to know not to panic, yet.. aha

again thanks alot snipe, im gonna copy and paste this for when i switch over.

good peace of mind, :cheers:

cam

 

[95spi]

If your injection system is working, do not go to premix. This is a bad idea. And yes, your right, I do not recommend the premix. In the long run, it'll damage the Rotax engine too. It's caused from carbonizing. This is when the oil is burned to a point it makes a glass like barrier on your metal surfaces. This will slow the heat transfer, insulating the motor.

The TCW 3 oil needs to go. But, if it's been running this oil for a while, don't panic. You'll be fine. You can go from mineral to synthetic but not from synthectic to mineral.

I use the Quicksilver brand of "Full Synthetic" oil. It's a non NMMA, non TCW-3 oil. You may find this at your local Mercury dealer. Just make sure you read the back of the bottle. It comes with a recommendation that it can be used in Seadoo's specifically.

Yeah, either or. Bottom line, and to answer your original question, as long as you get that TCW3 outta there soon youlll be good to go. And just fwiw the oil pump volume is regulated by throttle position not RPM, there's a throttle cable that goes to the pump. Pretty simple yet effective system.

When your oil is low enough, I'd remove the oil line that goes to the top of the tank. This is the vent off your rotary. Then, at the bottom of the tank, you have two lines. One with a small white filter in it. The filter is the line going to your oil injection pump. Don't mess with it.

Remove the other line, this is the inlet to your rotary. Take a shop vac that you don't mind getting a little oil into. Hold that inlet line from the rotary into the shop vac. The oil will be removed from the rotary chamber, as long as you also have that vent line open.

Now, when you attach everything, fill up with the synthetic oil. The oil remaining in your injection system will burn off and then, you'll be into the synthectic. Your done. Your rotary chamber will automatically fill with the new oil and your now injecting it.

Injection pump? This is a simple gear type pump that is self lubricated by the oil it's moving. If you have no frey's in your cable ends, do not go to premix.

The Rotax engine works on a variable rate of injection. Hypothetically, when your at idle, you may be at a mix of 12:1 or less. When at WOT, you may be at 50:1. If you premix, this means your setting the motors oiling system up for full power running only. Which means, at lower speeds, your going to be fouling plugs, smoking really bad and eventually, carbonizing the internal components of the engine. Do not disconnect your oil pump and premix unless you are certain you have a problem with your oil pump.

BTW, I used to be 18 once. Even then, as a hot rodder, oiling properties were still the same. Premix is not cost effective and not good for the Rotax rotary engine..........:cheers:[

Thanks alot for the reply snipe, i had figured this, since the pump works on how fast the engine is running (rpms) im guessing. Im gonna keep my oil pump, the ski i have was meticulously maintained, and about 30 hours on the rebuild makes me believe the pump is just fine. plus ive been told the 717 is a pretty reliable motor, with the right care of course. good to know not to panic, yet.. aha

again thanks alot snipe, im gonna copy and paste this for when i switch over.

good peace of mind, :cheers:

cam

 

[seadoosnipe]

Cool...

Yeah man, no prob... I had 3 Yamahammers and one Tiger Shark before the Seadoo's. All were premixed outside the TigerShark.

Premix is a pain... especially if your out on the river, having fun and need some gas. There is one marine station here that sells 50:1 premix with their fuel. But, our river, bay and Gulf of Mexico riding pretty much makes that one fuel stop useless.

The variable rate oil injection (VROI) is very reliable with minimum care. Just like changing your plugs once a year, you should also change your oil filter to the injection pump. If you see any wire strands beginning to break loose from the cable, replace it.

To do a quick check on your oil pump, to make sure it's working. Start the motor on the hose. Then, reach down to the oil pump cam and manually wind it all the way open. It shouldn't take but 5 to 10 seconds before you start smoking really heavy. By rolling the cam back, your putting a ratio of oil into the motor that would be used if you were going wide open throttle.

Be careful when you do this though. When you let the cam back to normal, make sure the cable wire is still in the guide..............:cheers:

 

[MC87SS]

I use the Quicksilver brand of "Full Synthetic" oil. It's a non NMMA, non TCW-3 oil. You may find this at your local Mercury dealer. Just make sure you read the back of the bottle. It comes with a recommendation that it can be used in Seadoo's specifically.

Can you post a picture of the bottle it comes in to make it easier for us to find?

My skis have already had the injectors removed so for me its easier to to just pre-mix.
If i am only using the oil for the crankcase is what you listed above what should i use?
If not what can i use and what should i use for the pre-mix?

I am assuming since the oil in the tank is only for the crankcase i dont need to fill it up just make sure there is about 1/4 tank, is that correct?

Hoping to get both of them fired up and ready to go tomorrow (Saturday).
Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Purple label?

Can you post a picture of the bottle it comes in to make it easier for us to find?

My skis have already had the injectors removed so for me its easier to to just pre-mix.
If i am only using the oil for the crankcase is what you listed above what should i use?
If not what can i use and what should i use for the pre-mix?

I am assuming since the oil in the tank is only for the crankcase i dont need to fill it up just make sure there is about 1/4 tank, is that correct?

Hoping to get both of them fired up and ready to go tomorrow (Saturday).
Thanks in advance for your help.

The gallon jug has a purple color label, if I remember correctly. Your Walmart should carry this oil, since you live near the Gulf Coast. Go to your automotive side of the store where they keep their car motor oil and look for the gallon bottles of QuickSilver oil. You will see a bottle that says "synthetic blend" or one that says "Full Synthetic". If your premixing, I'd probably go for the blend. Look on the back of the bottle. If it meets the Seadoo requirments, it will state that on the back. Remember, no NMMA or TCW-3 oils..

Your also correct about your rotary shaft. You only need about a 1/4 tank to keep it lubricated.

 

[MC87SS]

OK i got it.
As it turns out i had already got the right oil and filled the crankcase with it.
I had not started the one i had replaced the motor in as i was afraid i had the wrong oil.
I dont have the Full Synthetic so i guess im good.
The good news is the new motor fired right up tonight.
Tomorrow i will pull it out of the garage, hook up the water and check everything for leaks.

Thanks for the help.

 

[super1c]

No hijack intended here, im running the same 2 skis. Im using the stock oil injection pump. Should i run full synthetic or blend on the quicksilver???

 

[seadoosnipe]

Blend?

No hijack intended here, im running the same 2 skis. Im using the stock oil injection pump. Should i run full synthetic or blend on the quicksilver???

If you've owned the skis for a while and you've been running mineral oil, you can run the blend. I personally would run the full synth. Synthetic oil has come a long way since being introduced. There used to be a lot of fear in using synth oil because of leaking seals. The synth oil is designed to be slippery, to put a better oily surface between the metal to metal (roller ball and race) surfaces. It also requires a lot more heat to burn.

If your using mineral, you can move up to blend, if using blend, can move up to full synth but you cannot go backwards without cleaning out the entire lubricating system......:cheers:

 

[popasodatastie]

Oil

I did spoke with a Mercury Tech and I asked him what he would recommend as far as full synthetic Quicksilver and Synthetic blend made by Mercury Marine he said you can in fact mix the two or go back to synthetic blend from full synthetic he said that how their full synthetic and the blend is formulated its to seadoo's standard so you can you can go back to blend. He said and i Quote "DO NOT GO TO BACK TO MINERAL" such as TWC-3 From the Quicksilver Full synthetic. So if your not totally confused about oil you should be now!

 

[nikko_m]

what we have here is the quicksilver "premium" outboard oil,is this the miniral based quicksilver?

 

[popasodatastie]

Yup

The Quicksilver Premium 2cycle outboard oil is in fact mineral. A typical rule of thumb if it is made to TC-W3 it is generally Mineral. If it is made to API-TC its going to be eather a synthetic blend or full synthetic. I do know that quicksilver full synthetic is in a black bottle and it has pwc written on the label. If your looking for a synthetic blend you'll find that in a silver bottle with pwc written on it as well. There is also a price difference your tc-w3 are going to be up about $20, when your synthetic blends are going $30, and finally you full synthetics are going to run you about $40.

 

[nikko_m]

The Quicksilver Premium 2cycle outboard oil is in fact mineral. A typical rule of thumb if it is made to TC-W3 it is generally Mineral. If it is made to API-TC its going to be eather a synthetic blend or full synthetic. I do know that quicksilver full synthetic is in a black bottle and it has pwc written on the label. If your looking for a synthetic blend you'll find that in a silver bottle with pwc written on it as well. There is also a price difference your tc-w3 are going to be up about $20, when your synthetic blends are going $30, and finally you full synthetics are going to run you about $40.

ok,thanks for the clarification,my mechanic said that its fine to use the quicksilver for mt kawasaki 550sx and seadoo xp with 720 motor,but in my 800's i use seadoo xps.