New coil, new solenoid, still no spark... thoughts anyone?

[bobbobobbo]

Right engine kept cutting out every couple minutes until it wouldn't start at all.

I've swapped everything from my left (working) ebox into my right, and I'm still not getting spark...


What am I missing here? I've searched around for a ground and all the cables look to be fine. All fuses seem to be fine.

 

[Waterluvr]

Right engine kept cutting out every couple minutes until it wouldn't start at all.

I've swapped everything from my left (working) ebox into my right, and I'm still not getting spark...


What am I missing here? I've searched around for a ground and all the cables look to be fine. All fuses seem to be fine.

What your missing is you didn't bother to mention what model year, boat and engine you're asking for help with when you posted the thread, and it's not in your profile either.

The shop manuals are available on this site and it's pretty much required reading if you need to diagnose loss of ignition. Swapping parts without diagnosing the cause will get you two sets of fried components in a real hurry under some circumstances.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Solenoid would have no bearing on spark issues. The pick-up is also a common failure and testable.

 

[bobbobobbo]

What your missing is you didn't bother to mention what model year, boat and engine you're asking for help with when you posted the thread, and it's not in your profile either.

The shop manuals are available on this site and it's pretty much required reading if you need to diagnose loss of ignition. Swapping parts without diagnosing the cause will get you two sets of fried components in a real hurry under some circumstances.

Truth. Sorry about that. 1998 Seadoo Sportster 1800. 664 hours overall, two rebuilt engines 2 years ago.

Solenoid would have no bearing on spark issues. The pick-up is also a common failure and testable.

Not sure what the pick-up (coil) is, time to do some research and read through these manuals.

 

[Waterluvr]

Truth. Sorry about that. 1998 Seadoo Sportster 1800. 664 hours overall, two rebuilt engines 2 years ago.



Not sure what the pick-up (coil) is, time to do some research and read through these manuals.

Now you're on the right track, study the function and testing procedure of both coils behind the flywheel. You have an ignition system generator coil and a charging system generator coil.

You need to probe the pins on the plug in connector for the black and black w/red tracer wires and ohm test them. The acceptable range for the ignition generator coil is 40-76 ohms.

 

[howie099]

here is another test to verify the MPEM is not 1/2 bad since this does happen on the dual engine boats with 1 MPEM. Swap all the connectors from the good side to the bad side after you do the static tests on the coils and that. The good thing is if it is just the coils or other ignition part you get those of any 717 used pretty cheap that hard part it putting them if you need to open the MAG cover on the boat. If the MPEM is the issue you have to do the MPEM ski swap since that MPEM has been discontinued for year and you find a used one.

 

[Waterluvr]

here is another test to verify the MPEM is not 1/2 bad since this does happen on the dual engine boats with 1 MPEM. Swap all the connectors from the good side to the bad side after you do the static tests on the coils and that. The good thing is if it is just the coils or other ignition part you get those of any 717 used pretty cheap that hard part it putting them if you need to open the MAG cover on the boat. If the MPEM is the issue you have to do the MPEM ski swap since that MPEM has been discontinued for year and you find a used one.

There is a specific procedure for testing the rpm limiter function of the MPEM that could actually be causing his problem and that isn't it. Go back and read the thread, you'll see he's already engaged in the hackery of parts swapping with no joy.

Do it by the book OP, it's the only way to be sure. Swapping electrical parts on any CDI ignition before performing the mandatory testing procedures will get you an expensive lesson under your belt sooner than later in most cases.

 

[howie099]

the RPM limiter is in the throttle sticks/gear selector and it would do it to both engines not one. I have the same boat and done the test with RPM limiter. He said he swapped the parts from the electrical boxes he didn't say he moved the physical electrical connections from the wiring harness/MPEM from the working engine side the stalling side. I have had sea doo ski's do the same thing with a messed up MPEM. Would do the same thing run for 5-10 mins and cut out. Wait like for the MPEM to cool and it would go and do it again. Swapped the MPEM and I was all good. I am hoping it is not the MPEM for his sake..

 

[Waterluvr]

the RPM limiter is in the throttle sticks/gear selector and it would do it to both engines not one. I have the same boat and done the test with RPM limiter. He said he swapped the parts from the electrical boxes he didn't say he moved the physical electrical connections from the wiring harness/MPEM from the working engine side the stalling side. I have had sea doo ski's do the same thing with a messed up MPEM. Would do the same thing run for 5-10 mins and cut out. Wait like for the MPEM to cool and it would go and do it again. Swapped the MPEM and I was all good. I am hoping it is not the MPEM for his sake..

No, the RPM limiter is not in the gear selector that is simply a neutral safety switch that interacts with the RPM limiter in the MPEM. His boat has (2) separate rpm limiters build into the module.

You really need to study the diagrams and manuals specifically for the boat in question if you're going to give anyone electrical advice, you don't know what your talking about and that will get someone in trouble.

 

[howie099]

I have the same boat same year and same engines. Yes I know the RPM limiter is built in the MPEM and the switch(neutral safty) activates it in the MPEM. Usually the switch is what fails which than effects both engines not one what he is describing. Plus a failing neutral safety won't turn of the engines it just stops your 3500 RMPs.There is only 2 wires coming from the switch. I tested and tried this out myself. That is why you switch the electrical hooks-up from one engine to the other. I do this all the time for testing. The MPEM has no idea which engine you hook up to. These dual engine MPEMs do fail for just one engine.If you switch everything over from the good to bad engine and it works fine it is the MPEM. If you do it and it still messes up you have an electrical issue in that engine. That is all I am trying to explain is to test the MPEM fully unless you have a starter box system which some people use with a good power/MPEM box from a jetskit to test out the boat engines.

 

[bobbobobbo]

Still tearing in to everything,

What I did find was a sheered wire off the back of the jet. Outside (sits in water) it comes out near the jet and it's sheered in half.

Would that be a grounding wire of sorts???

 

[Waterluvr]

Still tearing in to everything,

What I did find was a sheered wire off the back of the jet. Outside (sits in water) it comes out near the jet and it's sheered in half.

Would that be a grounding wire of sorts???

Speed sensor most likely, what were your testing results so far?

 

[bobbobobbo]

Now you're on the right track, study the function and testing procedure of both coils behind the flywheel. You have an ignition system generator coil and a charging system generator coil.

You need to probe the pins on the plug in connector for the black and black w/red tracer wires and ohm test them. The acceptable range for the ignition generator coil is 40-76 ohms.

The working engine came in at 60 ohms. The dead came in at nothing (1-open circuit)

I've followed the black + black/red wires back to the mpem. Not sure what to do from here...

 

[Waterluvr]

The working engine came in at 60 ohms. The dead came in at nothing (1-open circuit)

I've followed the black + black/red wires back to the mpem. Not sure what to do from here...

Just to clarify you unplugged the connector harness, located the two corresponding pins on the fixed cover plug in that mate up on the other side of the connector to the black and black w/red tracer wires and probing those two pins is showing a reading of zero ohms?

A reading of zero ohms indicates your ignition generator coil is in need of replacement. Some people would stop there and assume they found the problem, I would conduct every one of the tests outlined in the three pages of ignition system diagnosis as most of that is a repeat showing procedures using both the shop testers which you wont have access to and the alternative tests using a multimeter.

Were it my boat, I would want to perform the tests for the charging system and well as the rpm limiter(s) as they are part of the MPEM module, rude awakening after the fact to replace your ignition generator coil only to find things aren't right.

It's 15-30 minutes work to conduct every component test in the entire ignition testing procedure, and you'll know exactly what needs to be replaced when your done.

 

[bobbobobbo]

Can you show me where the 3 pages of ignition system diagnostics is? I have the manual and all I'm seeing is trouble shooting with only a couple lines and no specifics.

But yes, probed the two pins and I get 60 on one and 1 on the other(dead side).

 

[Waterluvr]

Can you show me where the 3 pages of ignition system diagnostics is? I have the manual and all I'm seeing is trouble shooting with only a couple lines and no specifics.

But yes, probed the two pins and I get 60 on one and 1 on the other(dead side).

The first publication of the shop manual (1998 volume one Sportster 1800) contains all the ignition testing procedures for your motors starting at section 8, subsection three page 08-03-1 and on from there.

The supplement manual for your boat lists all the MPEM testing information and wiring diagrams.

Ok, so specifically regarding your test of the ignition coil generator you already probed the end of the plug in pins and that test shows a dead coil at zero ohms. I recall one nice feature of the harness on the 717 motors you have versus the 800's is the back of the plug and wiring is also exposed right?

Probe the backside of the pin connectors and wires, just to see if there's a bad connection in the plug where the pins are crimped to the wire ends. If you get a satisfactory ohm reading there, that would indicate simply a problem in the connector itself.

On Edit:
You'll need to perform the static and dynamic tests on the generator coil next in case there's an issue before the ignition coil. Both the ohm and VAC test procedures are on page 08-03-2 and if you have any questions about those ask away.

 

[howie099]

If u swapped everything from side to other and still cuts out. Even moving the electrical engine hookups with with same issue it has to be the magneto/rectifier assembly. It is really the only parts left you can't swap easily. You can test the MPEM but when you swapped everything and the same issues happen is leads you next to the magneto/rectifier assembly. Since that controls your spark also. The hardest part is getting is off the engine while it is in the boat and than lining it up putting it back in. Go to FleaBay and a get used assembly or post the request in the forums here. There are very good recyclers here that will get you a good working part for a fair price.