More oil/fuel ratio questions...or observations...

[scooper77515]

OK, a while back I was concerned that maybe my oiling system was not working up to par...

As an experiment (I LOVE experimenting!:cheers I marked on the oil tank where the oil level was, and proceeded to fill 2 5 gallon tanks of super unleaded. Just in case the oil system was weak, I mixed 80:1 oil in the fuel canisters. I then filled up the fuel tank and have spent the past 2 weeks running as much fuel off as possible.

I figured that I would burn off 10 gallons of gas, then measure how much oil it takes to fill the oil tank back up to the line I drew 10 gallons ago. I have only burned off 5 gallons so far, but notice that my plugs are wet with oil (no smoke, though, when running, and seems to run just fine). 8 fl. oz (1 cup) to 5 gallons is 80:1, so I would refill the oil tank with a measuring cup and figure out what ratio of oil to fuel has been burned ON AVERAGE over 10 gallons of gas.

OK, to my point. Since it seems to run so good with the extra 80:1 in the gas tank, and doesn't smoke, and it wets the plugs but doesn't foul them to a point where it interferes with the performance, should I continue using the 80:1 addition after my experiment is over?

 

[seadoosnipe]

up to you!....

That's totally a preference choice there Scott.............I have been working on my doo all day, replacing a broken bolt in my rotary plate casing. I got it done. But I thought, hell, while everything was open and in my face, I decided to do my oil. After draining everything, (I used my shop vac), I put the new oil in. Then, since my injectors were right there in my face, I wanted to see them work, plus I had to prime them.
I made a special tool with my Dremel that fit the tip of my drill, took off the oil pump and with the drill connected, set to turn counter clockwise and the control cable pulled all the way open, I started the drill motor. After the air bleed out, I was surprised at how "little" oil actually flowed through those nozzles. That oil in that tank will last a long time.
I know we just got into a debate about this and really don't want to reopen it, it was reassuring for me to see that both those ports were pushing oil into the engine and when the heads were off, to see how clean she burns........
I'm happy, just the way it is.!...........

 

[scooper77515]

Thanks for the feedback...

In my mind, and apparently yours too, I expected to see a bit of oil go rushing in when the engine is running. But to see so little burn off after an extended time got me worried that something wasn't working properly.

I guess it is good to hear how little actually gets put in to the engine during running. Lets me know that the system is more than likely working as intended.

I guess if it doesn't foul my plugs or inhibit running, I may keep a low ratio of oil in the gas just as a precaution...doesn't seem to be hurting anything, but might just help on this old ski.

Should I clean out the RAVE valves more often if I add oil? I noticed they were pretty gunked after I first got the ski, and most of the gunk looked like sticky oil sludge...(now that I think of it, that sludge is MORE evidence that my oiling system is probably working correctly:hurray.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Rave?

I don't think the extra oil will hurt anything. I've actually thought about running a little in my tank after this change, just to make sure I don't have any air bubbles. Like you said, "what could it hurt?"......
I don't see a reason to clean the raves any more than normal, unless you get that stammer in acceleration that is the usual symptom to a dirty valve. Once a year should be fine.
I've thought about doing premix since the engine is getting so old, but you burn way more oil if you do it that way.........and with the cost of gas!....
I might switch but I think I'll keep her like this through the 2008 season.....

 

[scooper77515]

I just noticed...

...that yours is a 97 model...so you are probably thinking along the same lines I am. It shouldn't hurt to give that old motor a little extra oil.

I just figured I would add oil until it smokes, then back off a little. Then I am getting plenty, without being a nuisance!

 

[scooper77515]

Update...

I just got back and finally burned 10 gallons of gas, and only 2 cups were needed to top off the oil reservoir. If I am not mistaken, that is only 80:1 ratio average over the past 10 gallons.

This is average, and estimated, since I am just eyeballing it.

I am still adding the other 1 cup per 5 gallons to the fuel.

Based on these observations, should I keep adding it to the fuel? Or does 1 cup per 5 gallons sound about right for the oil injection system?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oil injection....

Scott.....it's still hard for me to make express myself correctly with the words on this oil ratio. With the variable oil rate injeciton, that means, you'll be burning an 80:1 ratio sometimes and on others a 40;1, so to have the amount used, varies in speed. When regular outboard motor users pre-mix their 6 gallon tanks, you'll always notice how they smoke at idle. That's because they are burning to much. But when there WOT, they don't smoke as much.
I just changed the oil in my tank and rotary chamber, beacuse this would be the second year on that tank of oil......but when I pulled my heads, my pistons looked really clean. But no coloring to show leaning out. The RAVEs this year had a light buildup of carbon deposits..........
So, if you want to put a bit of extra oil, then I don't see what it would hurt. But, if you know what your looking for in this injection system, then you'll know if your burning enough for lubrication.
I took off my oil pump and attached a special shaft to my drill motor to prime it. With my drill motor on high speed, after all the air was out, there still wasn't like this solid stream of oil just blowing in at the rotary plate.....
So, it's all up to you.........:cheers:

 

[scooper77515]

Snipe...

I understand you completely...but to err on the side of caution, I always ask for clarification.

It seems that my ski is running fine on it's 80:1 +/- mixture. I run my ski at 75% or more throttle most the time, so it should be closer to the 80:1 than the lower number.

I just wanted to throw those numbers out so if they seemed WAY off, someone would tell me, but it sounds like they are just about right.

Regardless, it is an old motor, and it does not smoke, so i think I will run 80:1 mix in my fuel.

Then if the injection DOES go out, the engine just might survive it. If it doesn't it might get a darker plug or a little smoke. Which I can live with.

Thanks for your feedback, and your wording is just fine, even for my relatively new sea-doo verbage and knowledge:cheers:

 

[robin savell lloyd]

Scott I believe that you are thinking about oil ratio backwards. 80:1 = 80 gallons of gas and 1 gallon of oil. the higher the first number the less oil required. To me your average oil ratio is a litle to low on oil as you run mostly at 3/4 to full throtal. the extra oil you have been adding puts it closer to where I would think it should be runing. it is amazing how long an engine can run with it being a litle low on oil. but it is even more amazing how many more hours you can get out of a engine with the correct oil ratio.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Robin.....

Good to see you back Robin......You've been out for a few days. I hope all is well.....
Just to bring you up to par, to make sure we're all on the same page, Scott is still using his variable rate oil injection system and just wants to add a little extra to provide a bit more protection in the event of oil pump failure. With an engine that old, I think it's a good idea.
But, like you said, the varible rate my be backwards.....since in the varible oil system, the pump may be injecting 30:1 at WOT and 80:1 at idle. Who knows, I'm just guessing here.
But he is only adding a bit extra for additional protection.

Just throwing this out there. Day before yesterday, I changed the oil out in my rotary chambere and tank. Here, you'll see the attachment I made for my drill motor to run the pump (counterclockwise) to test the injectors. To make sure they both were pumpin. In the other picture, you'll notice that there is a small puddle of oil built up at the rotary plate. That was after the air bled out. That small puddle of oil was created after about 15 seconds of running the pump wid open (not the drill motor).
Don't pay no mind to the dirty engine. I'll clean it up, I promise!.....LOL

 

[robin savell lloyd]

Hi seadoosnipe. if my math is correct you should only be pumping 1 ounce of oil at wot in 2 1/2 minutes per engine. sounds like you probly are as you ran drill for only 15 seconds and have a puddle. but I do not have any way of measuring your puddle so I may be wrong. lol: :rofl:

 

[scooper77515]

Snipe is right on. I am only adding the lowest amount of oil that I think the engine needs at the lowest variable injection rate. That way, it is always getting some at the lowest acceptable rate (even if it is the idle rate). The oil injection is working, I just don't think it is working to it's full capacity.

Not sure if I typed something wrong, but I am pretty sure I didn't type that I added 1 cup of fuel to 5 gallons of oil...:reddevil:

I am using an EXTRA 1 cup oil to each 5 gallons of gas (I calculated that to be 80 oz fuel to 1 oz oil), and this is being run through the engine with whatever the oil injection system is shooting in there as well. It does not smoke, doesn't appear to be fouling my plugs so they don't, but I do see a little oil moisture on them. So I know there is at least a little oil in the cylinders when it is running, probably more than the engine normally gets.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I understand you completely...but to err on the side of caution, I always ask for clarification.

It seems that my ski is running fine on it's 80:1 +/- mixture. I run my ski at 75% or more throttle most the time, so it should be closer to the 80:1 than the lower number.

I just wanted to throw those numbers out so if they seemed WAY off, someone would tell me, but it sounds like they are just about right.

Regardless, it is an old motor, and it does not smoke, so i think I will run 80:1 mix in my fuel.

Then if the injection DOES go out, the engine just might survive it. If it doesn't it might get a darker plug or a little smoke. Which I can live with.

Thanks for your feedback, and your wording is just fine, even for my relatively new sea-doo verbage and knowledge:cheers:

It seems that my ski is running fine on it's 80:1 +/- mixture. I run my ski at 75% or more throttle most the time, so it should be closer to the 80:1 than the lower number. it is the lower number you want at 3/4 to wot 40:1

If your numbers are wright and my math is wright your oil pump is averaging 80:1 and you are premixing 80:1 you are close to where you should be on oil ratio 40:1 at 3/4 to wot that is my main concern. you will be over oiling at idle but engine should last longer. I just cant find a beter way to explain sory. robin

 

[scooper77515]

Your logic is RIGHT ON with mine. The oil injections pump seems to be feeding the oil at about 80:1 average, with the way I drive. So if I keep adding the 80:1 to the gas, it should average around 40:1 which will be rich at times, but should keep the motor alive another couple seasons or so...

Like i said earlier, if it ain't smoking and fouling my plugs up, then the extra oil CANNOT be hurting it one bit:cheers:

And I don't idle much...