Maiden voyage woes.

[VERDUGO135]

Took my 08 speedster 200 out today for the 1st time and about 3-5min in the water while still in neutral the starboard temp light came on. I pulled the boat out and called a mechanic friend. He said I should check water pump or thermo.

Anyways I realized the right side heat exchanger (radiator) is not getting as hot so mechanic is probably right. Is the water pump just an impeller or do I have to get the whole housing? Thanks in advance.

 

[devonte007]

Are you sure it is the engine cooling system that is having trouble? How many hours on the engine?

The reason I ask is because there are two separate cooling systems for each engine, a raw water cooling system for the exhaust system and a closed loop cooling system (green coolant) for the engine. It is rare for the engine water pump or thermostat to go bad in these 4-tecs, I only recall maybe coming across one post where someone had to replace the water pump and thermostat.

It is more common to have a problem with the raw water exhaust cooling system, either being plugged up with debris or trouble with cavitation of the jet pump where it is unable to send cooling water through the system. It is also fairly common for the temp sensors to go bad, there is one for each of the cooling systems.

In order to narrow down the causes of the overheat issue you need the trouble codes. If your boat has an analog dash then the only way to pull codes is the dealer or with your own candoo pro. You could also monitor each of the cooling systems to see if they are performing properly and help you narrow down the cause. Possibly a hand held temp sensor or something similar to help troubleshoot.

 

[VERDUGO135]

Thanks for the reply. After looking at the manual I got a good idea of how the cooling system works in this boat. As you mentioned I have the closed loop system. Each engine has a heat exchanger that sits under the hull. On the left engine which is running well and does not overheat the exchanger gets real hot, which to me means the pump is sending hot coolant to the exchanger to be cooled. On the right engine the exchanger does not get anywhere near as hot before the temp beep comes on. This tells me there is either blockage going to the heat exchanger or water pump is not cycling or thermostat is stuck. Its just a theory based on my observation. Any thoughts?

 

[devonte007]

That sure does sound to me like you have an issue with the engine cooling system. Did you make this observation while running the boat on the trailer? If so just a word of warning not to run the engines out of water for more than about 3 min. because you could do permanent damage to the drive shaft seal as it is not lubricated or cooled when out of water.

Sounds to me like either a water pump issue or bad thermostat. Looks like you will need to pull the water pump and inspect it, then test the thermostat to make sure it opens at the right temperature. Could even be that there is corrosion in the water pump and the thermostat is corroded shut if no proper maintenance by previous owner. The only other thing I can think of is possibly air in the system but it will usually self-bleed once the engine hits operating temperature and the thermostat opens. You may also want to pull each of the coolant lines and blow air or water through them to make sure they are not blocked up or corroded.

Since you have the shop manual just go through the correct testing procedures and I'm sure you will find out what is wrong. Pull the water pump housing and let us know what you find. This is not a common problem with these engines if they are properly cared for so I am curious to hear about what you find. There was a post some time ago about another member who had a similar problem, I'll try to find that post for you and post a link for reference.

Here is the post: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?60792-Idle-speed-inconsistent-Overheating-Hose-collapse&p=322918#post322918

 

[VERDUGO135]

Thank you VERY MUCH for the reply and information. Although I dont have a collapsed hose I am leaning towards a slow or "not opening completely" thermostat. I was thinking about simply flushing the system to see what happens but even if it remedies the problem if the thermo is corroded it may catch up to me out in the water sooner or later.

 

[devonte007]

You could try some type of cooling system flush, just make sure it is specifically made for cooling systems and aluminum engines. My gut feeling is that you will probably end up removing the pump and replacing the corroded parts.

Bad thing is this type of problem can only really happen due to neglect of proper maintenance. Previous owner probably did not perform the proper coolant changes, and/or the engine may have overheated at some point. If one engine is like this then it is very likely the other engine is not far behind. Even though the other engine is not experiencing this problem, at the very least, you should probably run some type of coolant flush product through it as well because it was probably neglected too. Seadoo recommends Zerex made by Valvoline, but I'm sure any commercial product would work.

 

[pwgsx]

Sounds like a stuck thermo. There are a few write-ups that show how to remove it and check it in hot water. Or just go ahead and replace it.

 

[devonte007]

Since you will likely need to remove the coolant drain plugs from the heat exchangers in the near future I just want to caution you to be very careful and to not strip the drain plugs. It is very likely that they too are corroded in there since it appears the cooling system may have been neglected.

On your boat the heat exchangers are in an weird location and getting too the drain plugs is difficult. If you have trouble getting them out stop before you strip the screw head. Another member recently had this problem and stripped the screw head. See this thread :
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?65938-Coolant-drain-plug-issue

 

[pwgsx]

Hey that was me.....lol, Hopefully your boat was not used in salt water, if it was I would not even try to crawl under there. Trust me, it will save you a ton of time with no good results. I removed the hoses coming from the engine and pumped new coolant thru one hose till the old came out of the other. I had a bucket under the drain at the back of the boat. I probably used more coolant than was needed but O well.

 

[VERDUGO135]

Thanks guys. I ordered a water pump housing with thermo off ebay. I figured its cheap may as well order it and have kt on its way just in case. Going to remove and inspect today. Coolant flush is on my to do list. Thanks for the tips. Lets hope my drain plugs arent bad.

 

[VERDUGO135]

Ok I may have rushed into the repair too quickly. Heres a background on the boat to give you guys an idea. I bought the boat over the winter at a repo auction. I got lucky because barely anyone went for the boat and there was a huge catch. No keys so no way to test engines. I ran a compression test and all readings were good. Oil was brand new and seemed to have just been replaced prior to the winter season. I went with my gut and bought the boat. Fast fwd. Springtime I finally got a battery and took the boat to my mechanic for a key. Both engines started right up with the exception of a hiccup every now and then from one of the starter relays.

Ok so first ride out right side engine overheated. Mechanic said check thermo/water pump. I went with that and after some diagnosis stuck to that, BUTT now after draining the coolant and removing pump housing ive found the system to be VERY clean with NO signs of corrosion. So WHAT IF I rushed into this and the cause for the heat exchanger not getting coolant was simply air in the system? Anyways I have it apart now going to test thermo for piece of mind.

 

[VERDUGO135]

 

[pwgsx]

The stat could still be bad. As far as air in the lines, that should work its way out and be replaced with the coolant in the overflow tank. The coolant cools the engine and oil and the fresh water from the pump cools the exhaust manifold, exhaust J pipe and waterbox. You might have got the engine temp light if the exhaust cooling was clogged and was overheating.

 

[VERDUGO135]

Yeah im starting to sway towards exhaust overheating since the thermostat SEEMS to be working properly. Ill wait for the other one in the mail so that I can compare, but aside from that this one may be going back in. Is there anyways to back flush the exhaust? Or take waterbox apart to clean ?

 

[pwgsx]

You can remove the clamp between the manifold and J pipe, remove the upper clamp on the waterbox and hoses from the J pipe to the manifold. The part of the J pipe that goes into the waterbox you will find 3 small holes. Make sure these are clear. On the bottom of the manifold you will find a 90* fitting, you can remove the hose going to that fitting and check the line as well.You can also check the screen inside the pump. Lastly, when reinstalling the J pipe into the waterbox, make sure the clamp is as high as it can so it does not push the rubber tubing and cover up the 3 holes on the J pipe.

 

[devonte007]

You are right, everything in the pics looks good. Sure looks like it should all work properly and the thermostat tested good, so we are left with quite a head scratcher...

In your original post you indicated that the heat exchanger was not getting hot at all compared to the other trouble free engine. This was the once piece of evidence that led me to question the engine cooling system. Since the housing is still out I would flush all of the cooling lines with water to ensure there is no blockage and that you have good flow through everything. If everything checks out then button it all back up and go out for a test run. If still having a problem you really need to verify exactly what temp. the engine is at when the alarm goes off in order to rule out then engine cooling system. Wonder if you could install a manual gauge or use one of those infrared laser hand held temperature guns.

When you tested the thermostat did you verify it opens at a precise temperature with a gauge according the the manual (don't remember off had what the exact temp. should be)? Even though it opens, it may be a bit lazy which could trigger overheat alarm. Could also be a bad temp sensor, I have heard of those going bad before. Since you have a second working engine, you could easily swap out different sensors to verify if they work or not.

 

[VERDUGO135]

Ha. Its funny you mentioned swapping out sensors since I did just that. Alright heres the kicker. I doubt anything was wrong with the coolant system at all. Initially I was not aware the boat had an open loop system for the exhaust. Tide was low and I may have sucked something up. After flushing and getting her back together took her for a test. All was well for the first 10min til I opened her up. Same engine gave me temp light. Put her on the trailer and pulled water intake hose for exhaust cooling. Ran engine and pumped water thru exhaust. After that all went well. Only thing is RPM's. Im only seeing 7600 on both engines. I have no idea if chargers were rebuilt but they do not spin freely (checked). What else should I look for? What rpm's should I expect at WOT. Thanks a lot guys. Gonna take her out for a full day tomorrow.

 

[devonte007]

Be very careful with the superchargers, you could possibly have ceramic washers if they were never rebuilt. If you have ceramic washers you have a ticking time bomb on your hands.

If it were my boat, I would not run the engines at all until I fully checked out the superchargers, either pull them or contact the previous owner to find out for sure if they were ever rebuilt. Hours on the engine mean nothing if you still have ceramics.

 

[VERDUGO135]

How hard is it to pull chargers? When I pull them can I look and see if they have beeb rebuilt without tearing them apart?

Regarding my rpm's what else should I look for. On the rxp's and rxt's ive read about too much oil, spark plugs etc. Buttt both engines top out at almost identical rpm.

 

[devonte007]

I am not very familiar with the superchargers since my boat does not have one. It is a serious issue though and I have read countless reports on this forum about how they can ruin your day if they go...

Pulling the supercharger is not too difficult, it is held on by three bolts but they can be hard to get to. You can search this forum and the internet for tips on removing it yourself. Here is a quick video I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wina2KSE-kE

If you pull it and post some good pictures I'm sure someone on this forum with more supercharger experience can give you advice about how it looks and if it needs to be rebuilt. I would also start a new thread just for the supercharger discussion as you will probably get more responses from people. Here is a good post (one of many) to read about the superchargers: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?72150-Sportster-150-215-HP-for-my-mom