Is it my starter?

[StLoon]

Hi all -
This post regards my `04 GTX 4-TEC, which has otherwise been running fine.

I've been cooking batteries this summer. One actually had the negative terminal melt off! Thought it was a defective battery, took it back and then the replacement got almost just as hot, in almost no time.

Upon further investigation, discovered both wires on the starter relay, and the one end at the starter were all somewhat loose. Tightened those and the ski started up much easier. Great! Tighten loose wires and problem solved, right? Wrong. Repeatedly started and killed it about 4 or 5 times there on the driveway, over about a minute's time, to make sure it restarted easily each time. Reached down to just recheck that wire to the starter and it was hotter than a firecracker. The whole starter was hot and the wire was hot enough to melt the end boot.

Took starter apart and nothing visually jumped out as wrong. Brushes looked a little rough, but no burnt smells, etc. Brush wires showed heat discoloration signs, two insulated, two bare.

What's going on? Something's causing an extreme electrical heat buildup.

 

[sporsterjoel]

Just a guess but maybe u have a ground and power wire crossed or touching together on the starter or some where in the system... Do the wires and battey only heat up when the ski is running????

 

[StLoon]

Just a guess but maybe u have a ground and power wire crossed or touching together on the starter or some where in the system... Do the wires and battery only heat up when the ski is running????

Thanks Joel. The battery and positive wires only heat (OVERHEAT) when running. Yes, I was wondering also if the uninsulated brush wires in the starter USED TO have insulation and now they're shorting against the casing or somewhere.

 

[derek]

it only gets hot when it is running? when what is running? the starter for 1 second, or the engine running after you are (supposedly) done applying power to the starter? you could have a solenoid that is sticking on, causing the starter to run constantly or intermittantly. if that is not the case, you have a starter that draws too much power. just because you can't see a problem, doesn't mean it doesn't have one. if it is a bad solenoid causing this, it has hurt the starter by now.

 

[kustomkarl]

Also on the 4-tec engine the ECM will stop power to the starter if it is held on and the engine reaches 600 rpms, so you can't burn out the starter, and it will release from the flywheel. If the starter keeps running it could have a sticking or defective starter drive, or a shorted solenoid winding.

Karl

 

[StLoon]

I've pulled the starter and plan on taking it tomorrow to a motor shop to have it bench tested. Do you know what the normal draw is supposed to be on that starter?
Also, knowing how hot the starter relay got, are you pretty confident that it is shot?
re: "running" - On the last occurrence, I'm thinking that starter wire got GD effin' hot just from sending juice through it starting the engine. The engine never ran long enough for the engine or exhaust to get more than slightly warm. I didn't hear the starter motor running after the engine turned over.

 

[kustomkarl]

The shop testing it should know what the draw should be. I'll look it up later to get the number for you to verify it.

Karl

 

[sporsterjoel]

If the ski is turned off and the battery hooked up do the wires get hot????? or do they only get hot when you turn it over???

 

[StLoon]

with ski turned off, no heat happens. the extreme heat is happening when cranking and/or running.

 

[StLoon]

it gets wierder

Okay. Replaced the starter and voila!, it started right up. Ran it last weekend and this weekend, total of maybe 15 starts before it wouldn't start again. Until that 16th attempt, it started quickly and ran great.
Wierd parts: brand new battery. brand new starter. fully re-charged battery and I can only get a click form the starter relay.
Good part: battery, starter and cables are not getting exceedingly hot like they did with the other starter. All fuses checked and good. All connections clean and tight.
Questions: Could installing non-OEM parts (battery and starter) be causing my problems? New battery is EverStart ES16LBS - could cold cranking amps be too low? (but it worked the first 15 starts). New starter came from BP Electrical, looks identical to the original - can a starter go bad that quickly? Is there a sensor module that would be blocking a start? A bad wire in the wiring harness somewhere?
Process of Elimination info: Same clicking with either lanyard key. Voltage @ battery was 12.9 after charging, dropped to 12.1 after trying to start. Voltage good at starter (eliminating bad starter relay as problem, I think?)

 

[timmyboy76]

hey...jump the relay, if starter kicks over, replace it,..if it doesnt, starter may be bad again. can run jumpers straight to starter then see if fires...