Hey Guys, Sea-Doo um.. "issue" lol(PICS)

[JasonDX]

Hey guys!
So I’ve been lurking on this fine forum for a while doing my best to try to learn what I need for my current boat, it was really helpful when I noticed my RAVE value’s were leaking and I had no idea what to do!

However, now things are at a WHOLE different level!
First some background, I have a 1996 Seadoo Challenger with the single Rotax.
The engine has not run right since I got it, first the raves were burnt(literally both were stripped and one had the nut ripped right off the piston cover) That went on for a while before I figured out exactly what they were.

Along with that, she would cavitation like HELL, it would be nearly impossible to get on plane and when It was on plane I could hardly break 35mph on glass water, eventually I figured out about the wear ring ect and replaced the (dinged) impeller, wear ring, all the seals and the carbon seal and all the o-rings, checked the shaft/play and it was good.

So now.. I got everything back together and it wouldn’t start… odd, so I ran a compression test… 145 .. 20… Noooooooooooooooooo!!!
Last time I had it out for some reason she had started to act weird, dropping revs slowly, it was a REAL effort even at WOT to get it to 6k and it just felt like it was dying, it never died but I limped in it, that’s when I figured out about the rave valves and wrote that off to that.. However now I think I was wrong.

So, I included some pics, yup, that’s a –hole- in the piston! Also the cyl wall is scared all up. You can feel it running your figure on it, the rave valve (the new one) doesn’t seem to be dinged at all in any area so perhaps it was the old one?
So my question is… um next move?

I had a thought of pulling both jugs out, and the piston heads and getting a head rebuild kit that you see online, 2x new jugs/piston heads and slapping it all together… will that work? Is there anything really important I need to know about pulling those off? Unless I judged it wrong I should be able to do that with it still in the boat…

Any options or general NO YOU CANT DO THAT? Lol

I’m trying to avoiding taking it to the stealership because they already quoted me close to 2grand to repair it…
I included a bunch of pics I took.

Cheers!!! I'm off to have a few beers and convince myself its allll ok

 

[sittin sidewayz]

im no pro so my opinion prob is wrong... but id think youd have to hone the cylinder out smooth again...and rebuild... But id wait for someone else to chime in

 

[330xi]

You would be okay with only a new top end most likely. If the cylinders aren't scored too badly, try honing them out.

I'd start with pulling the jugs first, then pistons. If the jugs are too bad to hone out, you can get new ones.

Rebuilding these engines are probably the easiest that I've ever done.

Lastly, I would like to add, we also need to figure out why it melted over.

 

[USAF_Pride]

Being the boat is 18 years old (and probably the motors as well), I wouldn't mess with just the top end, because you are going to restore the compression and still may have weak components below. Plus, that metal went somewhere. I know you are up in Canada, but that means boating season is practically done. If you are close to Michigan, you can contact Fullbore in Alpena, Michigan as they have winter specials. Give them a call and discuss it over with them. If you are close enough to the border, that will help with shipping.

Also, this is the PWC forum. Maybe [MENTION=31048]LouDoo[/MENTION] can move this to the boat section for you (although the motors are the same as the PWC)

edit: I think in picture 4 I see 1.0 stamped on the piston. If that is the case, it has been rebuilt before (once or twice). With that being the 2nd oversize piston, you would need to have trimmed the RAVE valve for clearance. My bet is the RAVE valve got hung up.

 

[LouDoo]

Yes, I will move this to the 2-stroke boat section.

Opinions are like rectums, everybody's got one. So here's mine, that engine, and especially the mag. side piston looks like a recent rebuild, if it was mine I would pull the cylinder, have it honed or maybe bored (if needed) and just replace the PTO side piston.

Lou

 

[JasonDX]

Hey guys.

Whoopsie on the wrong forum.

Ok some awesome feedback but I'm confused on a few things. Lol surprise suprise eh.

First of. Why would you need to hone anything? Unless I'm mistaken the top end rebuild kit comes with 2 new jugs and 2 new Pistons ect right? Should it be a straight swap just take out my old jugs and put on the new jugs and piston head?

Is having it honed cheaper then that route or am I missing something really basic here? I'm new to all this but I'm pretty determined to learn

I will explore today if there are any places around here that would do honing but it doubt it.

I never thought of the rave valve clearance due to a rebuild. I assume a top end kit would include rave valves to fit I believe I saw them as an extra option?

I'm badly trying to avoid doing the engine exchange but cause I do not yet feel confident in my ability to pull it out and reinstall it.

As for WHY it melted. Um. Let's assume I'm a noob at boating and was running it at 6 grand none stop a lot. And since it was cavitation pushing it to max to make it plane because noob. Would that do it?

Thanks guys!

 

[USAF_Pride]

Please post a picture of what the cylinder wall looks like of the piston that has a hole in it. The pictures you posted where from the "good" cylinder.

 

[JasonDX]

Oh sorry, I Thought I linked it in the first one.



So a little update, I pulled the jug off, just one, got a few questions and info.

As I'm sure you can see from the pics that piston is GONE, also the cyl wall is just messed right up, I looked really close at the rave valve and there is zero damage on it.

Couple of things however, I would like to avoid having to pull the other once since it has great compression.. can I buy that rubber gasket that connects to the block and just cut it? and use half of it just for one jug? Because it seems to be a one part gasket for both jugs, same for the exhast manifold.. is that possible or do I have no choice but to replace both of them? Ie pull the other jug..

I got the ring out of the piston, both of them, but I was unable to remove the wrist pin, I tried using a threaded rod with a bolt on one end and a deep socket on the other but I Could only pull it so far because my socket was not big enough, so getting the right tool there is next step...

Things I wonder about tho.

What is that gas line that connects both jugs at the very bottom? I'm assuming you need it lol... I'm also going to assume the only way I can re-attach that is by pulling out the freaking exhaust pipe right? Because I could barely see it..

I will figure this out(with all the great help from here of course) no matter what.. there is no way I can see owning these kinds of boats affordable if you don't take the time to learn to work on them yourself.

So next step, wrist pin removal.... any ideas on what caused the piston to do that?

 

[manolocross]

That is not gas line that connects the two cylinders... It is a water line. Yes your gonna have to lift both jugs and replace the bottom gasket. You can do it... You made it this far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JasonDX]

That is not gas line that connects the two cylinders... It is a water line. Yes your gonna have to lift both jugs and replace the bottom gasket. You can do it... You made it this far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heh, thanks for the vote of confidence man, and the info! More then anything I just didn't want to touch that one because its solid at 145 psi.. but now that I have to, I may actually just send both back and get 2 brand new ones, its only a few bucks more and then they both are new/fresh and can wear at the same rate....

I'm probably taking way longer then I have too(plus I have to ship this so its going to take weeks... being in Canada) but I tend to take things like this really slow rather then make that tiny mistake that causes your boat to explode LOL

I have a question, I was told the rave valve metal was softer then the piston.... so it would break before screwing with the piston but if it managed to break the ring the ring is actually harder then the piston? so It would carve the crap out of the piston.. is that correct at all? could the old one have clipped the ring and caused this to happen?

 

[Danosll]

I'm probably taking way longer then I have too(plus I have to ship this so its going to take weeks... being in Canada) ?

What city do you live in? I ship stuff to and from us all the time. You have options

 

[JasonDX]

What city do you live in? I ship stuff to and from us all the time. You have options

Hey,
I live in Penticton, currently I'm looking at dealing with full bore, just been busy the last while so I have not had a chance to finish pulling off the other head, hoping to get it done this weekend and all packaged up for Monday!

 

[Danosll]

It seems you are quite close to the US border. I usually just drive into the US to ship my stuff. I also have a kinex mailbox on the US side to have my items shipped too. It's like $5/package. But I always get a shipping quote for both my Canadian address. And US address first. Before I decide. Last order I made from SBT the shipping via FedEx was the same price to my Canadian address as my US .and I received next day. If you use the post office your package can sit at customs for weeks .
https://www.kinek.com/find-a-kinekpoint-result?borderProvinceId=56

 

[Mekanix]

Another option is to call Winnercircle, they stock WSM platinum top end kits. Takes 1-2 days for shipping within Canada.

The kits include all gasket's, bearings, pins, clips, pistons and rings.

At 145 on that side your already low, At least at the point where you would be considering a rebuild very soon.

Then just get your cylinders bored. to 0.25 or 0.5 oversize at any machine shop. and have them clearance the raves while your there and make sure they chamfer the ports.
There must be an automotive shop nearby that bores cylinders. Maybe call any of the local power sports shops and see where they send their cylinders to get bored.

While your pulling the cylinders off its a good idea to vacuum out the debris in the corners by the bolts so that it all doesn't end up in the bottom end while your gasket is ripping and falling apart.

The rings are the hardest metal in there and also the most brittle. They can catch the rave valve or the large opening of the exhaust port and chunk apart or wreck the piston like you see there.
I've seen a few piston's come out with no rings left
The rave is pretty soft but it can still do some damage with minimal contact.



Those look like oem pistons, Expect the "Uncaged" needle bearings to fall into the base when you try to pull the pin out.

The pistons pin's will probably be stuck in place.
You could use a proper puller or use a nut and bolt and a large socket to pull the pin out one side.