Great Video tutorial: Replacing the float ring, carbon ring, and the bellow

[reedsposer22]

Video link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3nme0CaGvs

this youtuber shows everything very nicely replacing these parts on a 787 motor, if you are on these forums, THANKS BIG TIME.

My 1996 GTI in shop getting this exact thing replaced, it started taking on serious water into the engine bay, well the leak is at this interface of the carbon ring and the float ring, so the following is getting replaced on mine:

1)The float ring ( this is stainless steal, 2 O-rings go inside it "top hat" part, it is also known as floating seal per the manual)
2)The O rings associated with the float ring
3) the bellow (black accordion looking thing that goes over the drive shaft)
4) Other O-rings


Also, user pwgsx explains in another thread how the float ring prevents water from getting into the engine bay: "The 2 o rings inside the metal "top hat" seal water from entering the hull. The carbon ring and top hat of the float ring are cooled and lubed by the water. This is why you cant run your ski out of water for too long." (thread link: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?77747-The-Carbon-Ring-thing&highlight=carbon+ring)

Symptoms of these parts going bad may be "cavitation", as explained nicely by user Coastiejoe in this thread (http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...rry-searched-forums-no-one-explains-the-term)

Also, courtesy of user "kevinz", he was telling me: "when you get the ski back, rock the engine back and forth to make sure the mounts are all tight, if not they allow too much engine movement which damages the carbon seal." The mechanic is replacing my motor mounts as well for this reason.


Next time I may replace myself. Enjoy the great video.

 

[jts32]

How much movement should the carbon ring have on the driveshaft, and how tight should it be to the floating ring? The rings on all 3 of my skis have quite a bit of "slop", and are nowhere near as tight to the floating ring as this video shows. Always have a little water in the skis after a day of riding, never had the seat off when riding to see if maybe that is where it is coming from.

 

[reedsposer22]

How much movement should the carbon ring have on the driveshaft, and how tight should it be to the floating ring? The rings on all 3 of my skis have quite a bit of "slop", and are nowhere near as tight to the floating ring as this video shows.

jts32, I have the same question and been searching, I cannot find an answer, please let me know if you do. Also, this video here shows complete impeller take apart and reinstall, there is 4 parts to the video, this guy is the best I have found. I was looking for wear ring install and stumbled upon it.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adpDea0wCLw

Some really good tutorials on youtube!

 

[Coastiejoe]

The CS floats on the shaft. It is NOT suppose to touch the shaft at all. The pressure against the collar isn't too great. Basically enough to keep the ski from sinking.


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[CReynoldsMIZ]

Video link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3nme0CaGvs

this youtuber shows everything very nicely replacing these parts on a 787 motor, if you are on these forums, THANKS BIG TIME.

My 1996 GTI in shop getting this exact thing replaced, it started taking on serious water into the engine bay, well the leak is at this interface of the carbon ring and the float ring, so the following is getting replaced on mine:

1)The float ring ( this is stainless steal, 2 O-rings go inside it "top hat" part, it is also known as floating seal per the manual)
2)The O rings associated with the float ring
3) the bellow (black accordion looking thing that goes over the drive shaft)
4) Other O-rings


Also, user pwgsx explains in another thread how the float ring prevents water from getting into the engine bay: "The 2 o rings inside the metal "top hat" seal water from entering the hull. The carbon ring and top hat of the float ring are cooled and lubed by the water. This is why you cant run your ski out of water for too long." (thread link: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?77747-The-Carbon-Ring-thing&highlight=carbon+ring)

Symptoms of these parts going bad may be "cavitation", as explained nicely by user Coastiejoe in this thread (http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...rry-searched-forums-no-one-explains-the-term)


Next time I may replace myself. Enjoy the great video.

Man, I hate to see someone take their ski into the shop for something as simple as swapping out the carbon ring. It is very simple and could be done with the most basic set of tools. Oh well, glad you are getting it fixed

 

[reedsposer22]

Man, I hate to see someone take their ski into the shop for something as simple as swapping out the carbon ring. It is very simple and could be done with the most basic set of tools. Oh well, glad you are getting it fixed

CRreynolds, My time during the week is limited, I work 80 hours a week monday through friday. It is worth the expense to me even though I immensely enjoy wrenching myself. Thank you. good day.

 

[reedsposer22]

The CS floats on the shaft. It is NOT suppose to touch the shaft at all. The pressure against the collar isn't too great. Basically enough to keep the ski from sinking.

Coastie Joe, I do not follow, please explain what you mean that the carbon seal floats on the shaft, but shouldn't touch it. Picture please? Thouroughly confused.

 

[Coastiejoe]

The Bellows are clamped to the hull and ONLY touch the hull and the Carbon Seal. The carbon Seal may go over the shaft, but it does not touch the shaft. The flat part of the CS then touches the steel collar. So, when the engine is on, the CS and bellows basically sit in place. The steel collar does spin as it is directly connected to the PTO, which is the output shaft of the engine. Water TRIES to get into the hull via the bellows. But the flatness of the CS to the collar prevents it. It is common to have a dribble of water there as the water is what lubricates the seal.


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[reedsposer22]

The Bellows are clamped to the hull and ONLY touch the hull and the Carbon Seal. The carbon Seal may go over the shaft, but it does not touch the shaft. The flat part of the CS then touches the steel collar. So, when the engine is on, the CS and bellows basically sit in place. The steel collar does spin as it is directly connected to the PTO, which is the output shaft of the engine. Water TRIES to get into the hull via the bellows. But the flatness of the CS to the collar prevents it. It is common to have a dribble of water there as the water is what lubricates the seal.


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Thanks for the explanation. So, when I get it back and inspect it, do I want slack? As other user above asked, how tight should all that be, should it be tight like in the video I linked? thanks

 

[Coastiejoe]

There is no measurable number that I know or can give you relative to "tight". The driveshaft often has three notches in it. Most start at the middle notch. You want it tight enough NOT to leak water or suck air into the impeller. But as loose as it can be... The looser it is the longer the seal will last. But,,, too loose and you sink,,, I would recommend that you test it at the ramp on the trailer BEFORE you are satisfied. And even then, check the hull every now and then to make sure you are not taking on water at an unacceptable rate.


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[jts32]

So in your opinion, if you have to pry on the float ring, carbon seal, and bellows as hard as in the video to get the circlip on, it is probably too tight? I would think that that much pressure would wear the seal quicker, and be hard on the bellow as the seal and bellow would want to spin with the float.

 

[bigJake]

In the video, the guy put synthetic grease on the carbon ring when he put it in the bellows. @Dr Honda - Tony correct me if I am wrong but I think I remember you once told me that putting grease on the carbon ring is not a good idea as the grease would break down the carbon?

 

[Coastiejoe]

So in your opinion, if you have to pry on the float ring, carbon seal, and bellows as hard as in the video to get the circlip on, it is probably too tight? I would think that that much pressure would wear the seal quicker, and be hard on the bellow as the seal and bellow would want to spin with the float.

Doing the C-Clip does take some pressure as the bellows has to be collapsed fairly well. It relaxes as the collar slides back on the shaft up to the C-Clip.


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[Coastiejoe]

Putting grease on the the face of the CS is not a suggested procedure. It can create hot spots and then these hot spots allow the seal to break down quicker.


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