going to buy one of these 3 boats this weekend. looking for opinions

[docster]

First the boat will be used primarily as a tow boat, skiing, wakeboarding, tubing. Then just a fun family scoot around go for boat ride boat on inland lakes/rivers, and pulling up to sandbars. we want a jet boat, i love them, and have my reasons. here are the contestants

1999 Challenger 1800 with twin 787s (220HP total). Low hours, excellent condition.
Price 5800
pros: engines cheap to fix/replace, fastest out of hole
cons: oldest, very very thirsty

2000 Sportster 1800 with 210 Merc. Low hours, very clean, new stereo
Price 6000
pros: wife like seating arrangement (not sure how comfy it would be, anyone thoughts on that?), most fuel efficient of 3.
cons: Strange seating (small seats do not look comfy), weakest power for tow sports?, merc expensive to fix.

2000 Challenger 2000 with 240 merc EFI, needs interior reupholstered (i can do that)
Price 5700
pros: biggest, most seating/storage
cons: have to put some work into in.

I guess my questions are, is the seating in the sportster good, or not so good vs the challenger. I know i can run a block off for the oil injection (which i would do just to keep it more reliable) on the mercs. Does the 210 Merc have similar power to the 240 in the 2000? Is the C1800 really much faster?

Has anyone swapped the rear seat of challenger to flat bench instead of fitted buckets? We dont like the fitted buckets back there.

Which would you recommend and why?
Thanks Guys

 

[ocod]

Stay away from merc in Seadoo or spend a little more and get a 4 stroke seadoo boat.

I have the 1800 Sportster with the 717. It needs the 787 but makes a great first time boat w/no need of mechanical know how.

 

[Dr Honda]

Well.... I don't like the point blank answer about the Merc's that OCOD gave.... but there is some truth to it.

The merc's are expensive to fix... if they have a total failure. But, if they have a single cyl give up... then they can be patched at a reasonable price. (Assuming you can do your own labor) But then again... if you have a prob with the Rotax engines... the costs are doubled since there are 2 engines in that boat. And... if one engine gives out... the second is right behind. And... there are 2 pumps... and driveshafts... etc. But... generally... parts are cheaper since most of them came from a PWC.

The plus side to the Mercs is that they run VERY smooth.


FYI... the 210 will have carbs... and the 240 is EFI.


Regardless what you chose... remember... you are looking at +13 year old boats. So... assume that you will be putting money into it. soon.



As far as seating, and comfort... most people feel that a larger boat is always the most comfortable. But it's a give and take. The small boats are easy to deal with since they are small and light. You can move the trailer around... it's easy for one person to get on and off the trailer... and you can throw them around a little more. The little 14.5' boats (like OCOD has) is just a big jetski!!! I had one, and I would slide it... jump it, and have a good time. But now... I have a monster Islandia. (22' and seating for 12)

The rear "Fitted" seats aren't bad at all. They hold you better when you are moving, and having a good time. I'm sure your feelings would change once you take it out for a ride.

 

[docster]

that was my concern about merc boats, but recently sold a fish/ski boat with a carbed merc 175 on it, and my dad bought that new 20 years ago with never a problem. its a similar powerhead so i dotn get why the sportjet version gets a bad rap...do jetboat owners generally not take as good of care of engine? what goes wrong? the only thing i know of is the oil injection, but i plan on deleting that anyway. thats how all my 2 strokes run, premix!

 

[Dr Honda]

The SportJet engines rev a little higher than their outboard counterparts. And yes... unfortunately... people buy boats like this, and neglect them. Over the years... I've bought a bunch of project skis, and boats, with very little time on them... but beat and rusty.


Normally... the mode of failure is a bad oil pump drive gear. So... on the older engines... it's best to just remove the oil system. But... keep the parts around. If you do a rebuild... you can put the new style gear in the engine... and put it back on.

 

[ocod]

Well.... I don't like the point blank answer about the Merc's that OCOD gave.... but there is some truth to it.

The merc's are expensive to fix... if they have a total failure. But, if they have a single cyl give up... then they can be patched at a reasonable price. (Assuming you can do your own labor) But then again... if you have a prob with the Rotax engines... the costs are doubled since there are 2 engines in that boat. And... if one engine gives out... the second is right behind. And... there are 2 pumps... and driveshafts... etc. But... generally... parts are cheaper since most of them came from a PWC.

The plus side to the Mercs is that they run VERY smooth.


FYI... the 210 will have carbs... and the 240 is EFI.


Regardless what you chose... remember... you are looking at +13 year old boats. So... assume that you will be putting money into it. soon.



As far as seating, and comfort... most people feel that a larger boat is always the most comfortable. But it's a give and take. The small boats are easy to deal with since they are small and light. You can move the trailer around... it's easy for one person to get on and off the trailer... and you can throw them around a little more. The little 14.5' boats (like OCOD has) is just a big jetski!!! I had one, and I would slide it... jump it, and have a good time. But now... I have a monster Islandia. (22' and seating for 12)

The rear "Fitted" seats aren't bad at all. They hold you better when you are moving, and having a good time. I'm sure your feelings would change once you take it our for a ride.

Sorry, Dr.
Should of been more detailed in previous post as to why. Seadoo and Merc just don't go together and was a marriage that didn't last very long. You will get limited to no help from Merc or Seadoo for service unless you live near Dr.
:ack:

Also, my boat is the 1800(18 foot) which is similar to the Challenger he is looking for but has better seating arrangement and bigger engine.
That would be my choice or is he not willing to move from 5K see how much more the newer four stroke Speedsters that are 17' and 5 passenger in your area.

 

[Dr Honda]

Sorry, Dr.
Should of been more detailed in previous post as to why.

I've told you before... don't be sorry !! You had a reason to say it... and Besides... I didn't say you were wrong. (lol)


Yes... it was short lived. So... anyone thinking of buying a Merc Seadoo shouldn't even think about going to a dealer, other than a Merc dealer. (just pretend they weren't made by seadoo)

Sorry... I thought I read it was a sportster with the single 720. (my bad)

 

[ocod]

I've told you before... don't be sorry !! You had a reason to say it... and Besides... I didn't say you were wrong. (lol)

Its better to be detailed and let new readers know why.
No one else is going to honest to them before spending all that money and have a summer ruined.

 

[docster]

The SportJet engines rev a little higher than their outboard counterparts. And yes... unfortunately... people buy boats like this, and neglect them. Over the years... I've bought a bunch of project skis, and boats, with very little time on them... but beat and rusty.


Normally... the mode of failure is a bad oil pump drive gear. So... on the older engines... it's best to just remove the oil system. But... keep the parts around. If you do a rebuild... you can put the new style gear in the engine... and put it back on.

ok, thats what figured, whats the max operating rpms of the 240 efi? i know my 175 was happy around 6250 WOT, while running about 72mph. And i have no problem pulling the powerhead and boring out a cylinder if one goes bad (although if i run premix that should not happen). as long as the electronics keep working, im good.

 

[docster]

I've told you before... don't be sorry !! You had a reason to say it... and Besides... I didn't say you were wrong. (lol)


Yes... it was short lived. So... anyone thinking of buying a Merc Seadoo shouldn't even think about going to a dealer, other than a Merc dealer. (just pretend they weren't made by seadoo)

Sorry... I thought I read it was a sportster with the single 720. (my bad)

I will never be at dealer. Plus my brother is a 2 stroke genious...we can rebuild any 2 stroke in no time, have all the equipment, just worry abotu electrical.

Thats why im looking at a 2-stroke vs 4-stroke because they are so much easier and cheaper to fix than any 4 stroke...we really are only going to be using the boat for 3 or 4 years at most because we will be buying something new at that point, just do not want to yet, and 6000 is the amount i have sitting around for no reason, so imma spend it!

 

[ocod]

I will never be at dealer. Plus my brother is a 2 stroke genious...we can rebuild any 2 stroke in no time, have all the equipment, just worry abotu electrical.

Thats why im looking at a 2-stroke vs 4-stroke because they are so much easier and cheaper to fix than any 4 stroke...we really are only going to be using the boat for 3 or 4 years at most because we will be buying something new at that point, just do not want to yet, and 6000 is the amount i have sitting around for no reason, so imma spend it!

If you were closer you could of bought mine for less. But seating is weird.









2 Stroke FTW though for ease and low cost of maintenance.
You'll have no problems if your brother can do what you say and electrical is a problem but you have one one the best helping you with the Merc and anything else Seadoo if you run into problems.

:thumbsup:

 

[Dr Honda]

Sorry I had to duck out last night... I spent the day at Children's Hospital with my kid... and I passed out while reading.


Anyway.... electrical isn't a prob, and it's about the same on price. Actually... the Merc electronics are still avalable. Not cheep... but you can get them. If you roast the MPEM in the Rotax/seadoo boat... they are no longer avalable, and if you find a NOS unit... it will be +$1000.

The only known electrical issues with the EFI Merc engines is:

1) The port head temp sender can go bad, and cause hard starts, and smokey idles. But... it's a $40 part, and I ordered one, last season, and had it in 3 days.

2) The TPS can go bad, and cause the same issues. (but a little worse) This one is STUPID expensive. They are $480 !!!!!!!!! I started to look for a cheap replacement... but I haven't found it yet. I think the one from the late 80's Jag XJS may work. (There is another thread on it) Now... these don't just die, with a short life. They go +10 years. So... if you buy the 240 EFI, and need one... it should live for another +10 years.

 

[igneous]

I'd go with the larger Merc boat. I got my X20 for a song since it was a repo a friend got at auction. Only had to buy a $400 fuel pump and battery and haven't looked back. If you're gonna have more than 2 people on it with you, get the bigger boat--you'll be glad you did. Just make sure to check compression before you pay for it! I am interested in redoing back seat too, since all my friends can barely fit, but that's a future winter project.

 

[sydneygriffith]

I'd go with the larger Merc boat. I got my X20 for a song since it was a repo a friend got at auction. Only had to buy a $400 fuel pump and battery and haven't looked back. If you're gonna have more than 2 people on it with you, get the bigger boat--you'll be glad you did. Just make sure to check compression before you pay for it! I am interested in redoing back seat too, since all my friends can barely fit, but that's a future winter project.

DITTO

I have a 20' utopia but a few weeks ago was the first time I got to ride in 1999 speedster. It was ok but as expected no space to move around which is to be expected. What turned me off the most was it was slamming in even light waves and we were all getting wet in the boat. From this perspective, I found it to be a very uncomfortable and unforgiving boat. Only on a handful of occasions do I remember passengers in my utopia being soaked and the ride is a lot smoother.

If you plan to use it only on a flat lake or river I guess this would be a non isusue

 

[challenger01]

Doc,
Hope your child is ok. My wife is a nurse at Childrens hospital.

I really like the size of the challenger 2000. We often have 8 people on the boat and have power to ski or tube.

I ride in my friends 190 four wins horizon and it seems narrow.

The sport seats are pretty comfortable and my wife likes the sundeck.
I am going to switch to premix, hopeful this weekend, to avoid a costly repair.

 

[Dr Honda]

Doc,
Hope your child is ok. My wife is a nurse at Childrens hospital.

We were in the emergency room. My 2 year old had a fever, and cough... and it got bad enough over a 4 day period, that we went to the Dr office. After listening to her, and seeing that she was almost non-responsive... they said... "Go straight to the ER at Children's". It turned out to be the beginnings of pneumonia.

They got fluids into her... and got her on an antibiotic. Today, she's a different kid. (She will be fine)

Sorry to get off topic, but thanks for asking.

 

[Racereddie]

Here is an old answer to merc's are bad statement

Back in 01-06-11 05:12 PM WAJETBOATING posted this

Seadoo produced boats with Mercury engines from 2000-2005. Before and after that, Seadoo used their own Rotax engines.

The Mercury engine and components used in the Seadoo boats were also sold to other manufacturers, including Sugar Sand (a direct competitor to Seadoo in those days). They are V6 outboard engines with the lower unit removed and a jetdrive bolted on instead. Obviously, Mercury also sold them as standalone outboards for years and years.

As a result, there are literally tens of thousands of these engines in service today and a healthy infrastructure of parts, service, and support for them. They are so popular that recently I have even started to see third-party companies offering aftermarket replacement parts for things like their high pressure fuel injection pumps, voltage regulators, rev limiters, etc.

On this site, we have repeatedly summarized the "Mercury vs. Rotax" debate as follows:

* Mercury engines are more reliable and more expensive to fix.
* Rotax engines are less reliable and less expensive to fix.

I have and maintain both. Both are great engines and serve their purpose in their respective niches. I am glad to have a Mercury engine in my jetboat and Rotax engines in my jetskis.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... I wish he was still around. He knew the Merc's very well. Funny... he was very active... and one day... gone.

I'll PM him to see if he still interested in helping here.



***EDIT****

I sent a PM asking if he would help out around here. I found that he hasn't made a post in about 1.5 years... but he has logged on, within the last 3 weeks.