Global Warming?

[seadoosnipe]

I'm a free thinker. I have lived by logic and common sense, along with following my instincts my entire life. If it's said, it needs to be backed up with scientific evidence.

Al Gore grabbed the spotlight after his vice presidency ended with the dangers of global warming. I'm neither Republican or Democrat, so what Gore had to say had no political impact on me like it did a lot of nah sayers. When Gore said we are causing global warming by greenhouse gases, I wanted to understand to decide for myself, what was really happening. It's really simple logic that yes, we are slowly destroying our planet by high levels of CO2 emissions and other ozone depleting gases.

If you look millions of years back, you can scientifically look at the atmosphere composition by the samples taken in the frozen tundra of the Antartic. This was back in the evolution time when we had no power plants, no cars, no factories or synthetic chemicals. Earth was evoling only with the atmosphere gases provided within the confines of the planet. Storms produced lightning that triggered fires. Major forrest fires pump heavy amounts of CO2 into the atmoshpere. But, earth was o.k. with this, since plants need the CO2 in order to produce Oxygen. But, since the industrial age, we've really pumped our pollutants into the atmosphere. Chemicals that are very harmful to our atmosphere and environment.

If you look at a major source of harmful and toxic gases that pollute our atmosphere, the first finger can be pointed at the Volcanoes. When they erupt, they spew massive amounts of toxic gases such as Sulfur dioxide, Hydrogen and Carbon Dioxide. The most toxic of the gases are Hydrochloric, Hydrofloric, and sulfuric acid and hydrogen sulfide. These gases help to create different living conditions on earth as time passes.

Now, since we are adding tons of our own gases, the earth's atmosphere can't absorb it all. We are displacing the O2 content with the CO2. We are cutting down our rain forrests at alarming rates. This is the source of our oxygen, that supplies us with life. Over long periods of time, all this will eventually play a roll in the changing climate that we live in. No, neither you or me will probably see any long term affects, but our childrens-children might.

Now, I'm faced with a contradiction. Is global warming really warming up our oceans, raising sea levels, melting the polar ice? I'm not to sure. Is all this bad gas going into our atmosphere, depleting our ozone really cause warming, or could it be the other way around?

In the last week or so, I've experienced temperatures so low that I have to wear several layers of clothes to keep comfortable (not warm, just comfortable). It has gotten as low as 20*F with wind chills into the teens. Other parts of the country have seen temps in the negative ranges. We had sleet and snow the past Thursday. I've seen ice cascading in long pointed daggars that are several feet long. This is not normal for the deep south. I live on the Gulf Coast of Alabama, between Pensacola and Biloxi, not Chicago. It seems to me, we are in for another cycle of the Ice age than global warming.

Strange how the earth evolves and changes over the course of time. At one point, it's been proven that the Sahara Desert was part of a lush, wet environment and New York was covered with an ice sheet a mile high. What's in store for us in the next 100 years?..........

How cold has it gotten down to in your neck of the woods? :cheers:

 

[flrnemt]

Bbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

I'm in Clearwater, FL, the Tampa Bay Area, and last night went to 31F, and at 11:30 this AM was only 35F. Right now, at 2:23pm, only 36F.

Who has the specs manual for an igloo?? :rofl:

:cheers:

 

[robin savell lloyd]

What is happening is that the earth's rotation is coming to a stop and will start to spinn in the other direction. We are entering a new ice age. No need for Seadoo any more, Now you will need a skidoo. and this site will become the Skidoo forum if anyone makes it threw it. So everyone needs to head for mexico. :bs: :agree::stupid:

 

[lashk]

Four nights in a row in the 20's.... haven't been this cold since the 80's. Al Gore is full of it!

 

[Sikiguya]

Global warming is bunk! Pure bunk! The earth's climate have changed over the past gazillion years. To think that your hairspray is bringing the wrath of a hurricane to Florida is crazy. Does that mean we should dump old motor oil into the waterways? Should we litter all over? No! But if we think that recycling your plastics or 'going green' is going to reverse the Earth's climate. Oh, speaking of recyling...:rant:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Hmmmmm,...

Global warming is bunk! Pure bunk! The earth's climate have changed over the past gazillion years. To think that your hairspray is bringing the wrath of a hurricane to Florida is crazy. Does that mean we should dump old motor oil into the waterways? Should we litter all over? No! But if we think that recycling your plastics or 'going green' is going to reverse the Earth's climate. Oh, speaking of recyling...:rant:

Hmmm, so you think dumping tons and tons of toxic gases into our atmosphere from all the industrial plants has no effect on our eco-system?

What if all the oxygen was somehow depleted or removed from our oceans by our actions. Do you think fish would continue to thrive? What if the toxic gases we're putting into our atmosphere, which is not natural to the earths eco system, causes further depletion of our ozone layer. Do you think you could withstand the radiation from the sun? Oxygen comes from trees. We need oxygen to survive. Don't you think if we continue to remove our trees, that we'll be able to get oxygen from somewhere else? Do you know of anyother source of oxygen?

I'm not saying global warming is real or fake. But I do know that it's a fact our natural gases of the atmoshphere has changed dramatically since the age of the industrial revolution.

The only place you can get a picture of what our atmosphere was like 10,000 years ago is in the Antartic. There, certain depths of ice contain traces of components of what natural gases were in our atmosphere at that time. Scientists have made a graph that show the increase of certain gases and the decrease of others. So to think our presence on earth does not leave a footprint is like saying the litter tossed from the window of a car has no affect on the environment.

Please, voice your opinions about your ideas and facts but don't use any hateful or derogatory comments that reflect on a persons race, religion, sex, or age and all those other things they put in those disclaimer forms.......:cheers:

 

[dlowings]

wow where to start.... here is a high level perspective... First industry MUST be held to a high set of moral and financial standards. To abuse our environment will NOT be tolerated in any way shape or form.
The sun, not man is the single most dictating force our planet will ever face... A single focused solar wind could whisk our atmosphere away in a heart beat. Sometimes I think its sad that the people around us do not understand how fragile our world is...

Oxygen, yes trees produce it but they need carbon dioxide to produce it... All in all its a fine balance. However the ocean has more oxygen in it, than any rain forest will ever produce.. Does that mean we should go and whack down all the trees? No..... I personally think all deforestation should stop.. We now have far better building materials.

This country was founded on no taxation, yet at every turn our politicians are coming up with new ways to TAX people? This should no longer be tolerated by ANYONE... The fact that MY and others tax dollars go to pay for interest on a privet bank MUST STOP.

:rant:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Sun or binary star?

wow where to start.... here is a high level perspective... First industry MUST be held to a high set of moral and financial standards. To abuse our environment will NOT be tolerated in any way shape or form.
The sun, not man is the single most dictating force our planet will ever face... A single focused solar wind could whisk our atmosphere away in a heart beat. Sometimes I think its sad that the people around us do not understand how fragile our world is...

Oxygen, yes trees produce it but they need carbon dioxide to produce it... All in all its a fine balance. However the ocean has more oxygen in it, than any rain forest will ever produce.. Does that mean we should go and whack down all the trees? No..... I personally think all deforestation should stop.. We now have far better building materials.

This country was founded on no taxation, yet at every turn our politicians are coming up with new ways to TAX people? This should no longer be tolerated by ANYONE... The fact that MY and others tax dollars go to pay for interest on a privet bank MUST STOP.

:rant:

Yes, I agree. Our planet is in a very fragile state. But, our planet is a strong planet. The changes our Earth has gone through in the last few million years are amazing. The most abundant gas in the universe is nitrogen. Hydrogen rates really high too. Looking at the changes created from impacts and volcanic eruptions, earth has absorbed many horrible catastrophes.

I'm not so sure I would worry about the sun destroying earth as much as a binary star system. I saw a video about this a few weeks ago but can't seem to find it. Here's one that can give you some idea of a ...binary star collision. From what the scientists said in the video I watched, these explosions from the two stars are second only to the big bang itself. The amount of gamma rays released would wipe out life on Earth as we know it, within seconds. If you notice on the video, during the explosion, you'll see two beams that shoot out from the poles. These are the highly concentrated gamma ray beams. In that video, the scientist said that this one certain binary star system (which started with the designation "N") is lined up that when it does explode, the earth will be in line with the trajectory of the gamma rays. So, makes you wonder how long they continue to orbit before they collide.

As for the comparisons I made in my last post, it was trying to point out that the problems with earth in these days is the things being put into the earth that are not natural to it's environment. Looking back in time, the gases harmful to the Earth were from earthquakes (methane gases) and volcanic eruptions (natural occuring CO2). All these are natural to Earth. The CO2 that is natural to our planet is not in high enough concentrations to cause permanent damage to our ozone layer but with our heavy emissions from all the smoke stacks, the impact may well overcome the ability for the ozone to heal itself. There must be some truth to that, since you see so many of the coal fired power plants designing and using the CO2 underground scrubbing system. Its suppose to trap the CO2 underground...

As for the oxygen in the ocean, I was making a point that life in the ocean would not survive without it.

When you look at the big picture of the universe, makes me wonder how we fit. Is it possible we are like a parasite, living on our host, eating and taking what we want from it. Using it till it becomes sick, then dies. What happens then? Where do we live? If the global warming is true, by the time the people who don't believe that we can destroy our planet from our way of life finally realize it's true, it'll be too late.

I have no PHd so anything I have to say is, my opinion. Your free to express yours too....

 

[SGTDuckButter]

I just have to add my two cents:
The Earth is Heating Up. The pictures don't lie, glasiers are melting and Island Nations are sinking and the peoples of those nations are actively looking for another place to live, those are the facts... Whats causing it? Who cares, I doubt it will be a serious problem in my lifetime but I have to say. If you don't think this Ant Hill we call earth is getting more populated, it is. Us antes need to do a better job of protecting our hill.... Hate me all you want I'm not a Al Gore Fan just an indepentent thinker, I can remember in the 70's the scare was another Ice Age Coming. But the pictures don't lie glaciers are melting and the earth is getting warmer, if you think otherwise you have your head in the sand. Go ahead call me a loser I used to think otherwise too.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Your right...

I just have to add my two cents:
The Earth is Heating Up. The pictures don't lie, glasiers are melting and Island Nations are sinking and the peoples of those nations are actively looking for another place to live, those are the facts... Whats causing it? Who cares, I doubt it will be a serious problem in my lifetime but I have to say. If you don't think this Ant Hill we call earth is getting more populated, it is. Us antes need to do a better job of protecting our hill.... Hate me all you want I'm not a Al Gore Fan just an indepentent thinker, I can remember in the 70's the scare was another Ice Age Coming. But the pictures don't lie glaciers are melting and the earth is getting warmer, if you think otherwise you have your head in the sand. Go ahead call me a loser I used to think otherwise too.

Yes, your right. But, I know that at some time in our history, New York was under a 1 mile thick glacier. How the Great Lakes were formed (outside some volcanic activity too).

My point is, over the last few million years, the earth has warmed and cooled. It has seen climates change from freezing temps in an area that becomes a tropical forrest 5k years later.

The earth is ever changing. When it warms, there will be climatic changes that cause cooling to take place, then we'll have another ice age again.

If you look at a trend graph of the climate history of the earth, you'll see it spikes up and down in temperatures, like a cycle, every so many thousand years. I believe I saw that on a show from the History Channel where scientist in Antartica took core samples from the ice to determine the atomosphere conditions over periods of time. Pretty cool.....

But yes, the earth is gradually warming from huge amounts of CO2 (mans industrial footprint).:cheers:

 

[Sikiguya]

The question was whether global warming is real or not. I do believe the climate on earth is changing. In its history, the earth has had various climate changes...ice age, warming, etc. It is a living planet. To think that men have a direct effect is crazy. One of the biggest polluter is animal methane gas...should we kill off all the cows and such?

You are correct in pollution being a problem. Just like I pointed out, I am not against having an effort to make sure our water supply is not being polluted with chemical and such. But that doesn't have a change in the entire climate of the earth.

This is a scare tactic created by some do-gooders. Just like saying that we are going to run out of place for garbage. Bunk..pure bunk.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Question...

Yeah, your right... I think we seem to get off track a little.

I guess it's probably noticed from this thread and the other on the Mayan calendar, I like to watch the informatinal shows. I love the History and Discovery channels. Shows that provide info on the science of our Earth and our Universe I find very interesting. I'm not one for many movies, I can't sit still that long. Only 1 hour shows etc....But, just like in literature, shows that are suppose to be based on facts, can be skewed to the right or left, depending on who is the one trying to bring to light, what ever the topic is. Just like Al Gore jumping on the band wagon of Global Warming. This topic was an issue 20 years before he decided to say something. Now, instead of the science that was first behind the issue, its taken a political tone.

Methane poses a problem too but it's natural. I've seen a lot of science that points to trapped methane under the oceans floors, that is released in some kind of anomaly that was said could be behind some of the lost ships of the Bermuda Triangle. I saw one scientist in a bog up north somewhere who was trying to bring to light, huge pockets of methane underground, that was escaping into the atmosphere. She actually used a styro foam cup, turned it upside down and help it over some small bubbles you could see coming from the water. Then, after a few minutes, turn it up and ignited it.

The issue between your comment on Methane and CO2 is kinda like apples and oranges. Not that it doesn' pose a risk, it does. But, the methane is natuarl occuring in our environment. To a degree, so is CO2. But, if I could paint a picture for you, if you look back over the last several thousand years, you'll see how the climate has changed due to volcanic releases of sulfur dioxide, CO2 and many other toxic gases. There are other things that cause CO2 releases, like wild fires. These are naturally occuring, so you might think the environment changes with these occurances naturally.

But, if you look at the changes human beings have made in the last 150-200 years, we've really started dumping a lot of man made toxins into our atmosphere. If you can imagine what it was like on earth, people living without the industrial smoke stacks, electricity, synthetic chemicals to make other synthetic products, cars, etc.... You'd see that the level of CO2 that we as humans were releasing was minimal. Like from burning wood for our stoves, clear cuts for our homesteads etc...But, forward to todays time. The industrial revolution, where man has become so reliant on fossil fuels, providing electricity, chemical plants, travel (planes, trains and automobiles), etc...You'd have to think we were making some kind of impact on the atmosphere with all the "un-natural" carbon releases that provide us with our high tech society. Does all this create harmful conditions to our environment? I don't know, but probably. Are we changing it so bad that mother earth cannot absorb what our new (speaking of Earths age time line, the last few hundred years of changes would be considered "new") impact is? Again, I don't know. But, it does seem logical that with all the new advancements we've made in the last few hundred years, that we have quadrupled our carbon footprint.

As was pointed out by Sgt.DuckButter, the obvious melting of glaciers shows that the earth is warming, if only by a degree or two; sea levels are rising. But, some would say that it is part of our natural cycle. I agree with those cycles, but are we putting the hurry on them? I don't know, but it could be possible.

As I learn more and more about the earth and the space it occupies in our solar system, the big question for me is, do you think it's possible to use up all our resorces? As one who always tries to see the glass as half full, it doesn't say that the glass is bottomless. At some point, the cup will be emptied. If you use up something faster than it regenerates naturally, then it's done. There is no way to change it.

This has become a very interesting topic. Global warming? Is it real or not? Scare tactics, why would someone want to make a scare tactic? What's the benefit of that? Who wins?.... Still, not fully understanding the entire "global warming" issue, I'm not so sure it's real or not but I"d like to say I'll err on the side of conservation. Since, it doesn't hurt anything. I'm not a tree huger and I use plastic bags. I can't change 100% of how I learned to live in the present society, but I can do some things, like recycle. No harm done there, to me anyway. We are all free to live as we please, just be happy. We aren't permanent fixtures here, we're just around for now. We'll all be gone at some point.

 

[crisso]

Global Warming etc.

I am no scientist but I still had to think about this.If people stopped taking sponges from the ocean wouldn't the water level not increase.AND.When you get into a bath,the water level rises.The answer?Take all the boats,especially the big ones,out of the water.As for the methane and cows being the worst contributer,If god didn't mean them to be here,why did he make them taste so good? Just my thoughts

 

[jswope]

Just another thing to consider in this discussion. I just read this in the local paper Sunday, this is the first winter in 20+ years that Lake Erie has frozen over solid from end to end, shore to shore. Last summer we had the coolest average summer temperatures in decades. I'm not saying that one year indicates any kind of a trend. Yet. But I've heard and read more lately that scientist are finding we're actually headed into a cooling trend, not warming. Plus the recent revelation that some in the global warming camp are actually using data to support their view that is 30 or more years old but passing it off as current. Does 30 years make much difference in the big picture? Who knows.

And to me, that's the problem. After all the studies and research and so called "evidence", nobody seems to KNOW. And worse, it's all evolved into political theater, you're either pro-Gore or anti-Gore. The "truth" is determined by the group's agenda. One group sites glaciers that are disappearing, another group shows glaciers that are growing. One group says ocean levels are rising, another groups shows evidence that coastal areas now dry were under water 1000 years ago. So maybe the truth is there is no "truth".

The earth seems pretty forgiving and self-healing. I remember years ago when Mt. St. Helens blew her top and threw enough ash in the air to cover the whole northern hemisphere. Climatologists said it would take 5 years for all that ash to fall and in the mean time there would be global cooling (some said warming). In the end, the ash had nearly disappeared within a year and a half and no measurable change in climate.

Do we need to make some efforts to stop screwing up the planet? Sure. But I think in the end Mother Nature will have her way, no matter what Gore or others say. And just to be a little selfish, I do hope this next summer is just a little warmer than last.

 

[96seadooxpBC]

In my opinion we are all just a bunch of over grown monkeys, who sometimes try to know far to much than they understand, we dont know what we're doing, no one cant predict when the world will end ( mayan calender ) no one can predict what global warmings final result will be, we dont know any of these things other than speculation and observation, we really know nothing. Weve grown from a culture worshipping a man who was said to create all, to believeing in a big bang theory all within 100 years, we know NOTHING, but of our daily lives.
just my opinion anyway, time is time, there is no future but a constant now, and we have to do somthing about a warming planet if indeed it is our fault.

 

[SGTDuckButter]

Just another thing to consider in this discussion. I just read this in the local paper Sunday, this is the first winter in 20+ years that Lake Erie has frozen over solid from end to end, shore to shore. Last summer we had the coolest average summer temperatures in decades. I'm not saying that one year indicates any kind of a trend. Yet. But I've heard and read more lately that scientist are finding we're actually headed into a cooling trend, not warming. Plus the recent revelation that some in the global warming camp are actually using data to support their view that is 30 or more years old but passing it off as current. Does 30 years make much difference in the big picture? Who knows.

And to me, that's the problem. After all the studies and research and so called "evidence", nobody seems to KNOW. And worse, it's all evolved into political theater, you're either pro-Gore or anti-Gore. The "truth" is determined by the group's agenda. One group sites glaciers that are disappearing, another group shows glaciers that are growing. One group says ocean levels are rising, another groups shows evidence that coastal areas now dry were under water 1000 years ago. So maybe the truth is there is no "truth".

The earth seems pretty forgiving and self-healing. I remember years ago when Mt. St. Helens blew her top and threw enough ash in the air to cover the whole northern hemisphere. Climatologists said it would take 5 years for all that ash to fall and in the mean time there would be global cooling (some said warming). In the end, the ash had nearly disappeared within a year and a half and no measurable change in climate.

Do we need to make some efforts to stop screwing up the planet? Sure. But I think in the end Mother Nature will have her way, no matter what Gore or others say. And just to be a little selfish, I do hope this next summer is just a little warmer than last.

In my opinion we are all just a bunch of over grown monkeys, who sometimes try to know far to much than they understand, we dont know what we're doing, no one cant predict when the world will end ( mayan calender ) no one can predict what global warmings final result will be, we dont know any of these things other than speculation and observation, we really know nothing. Weve grown from a culture worshipping a man who was said to create all, to believeing in a big bang theory all within 100 years, we know NOTHING, but of our daily lives.
just my opinion anyway, time is time, there is no future but a constant now, and we have to do somthing about a warming planet if indeed it is our fault.

I agree with both of you but hate Gore or not, the pictures don't lie. When you see a picture of glaciers in 19?? and then now and there isn't any Ice and they know for a fact that the water tempature is warmer in the oceans. I would think that says the earth is warming.
Forgiving I think so too, but think about it a little. USA is twice the population of the 1950's and India and China have now a middle class that want cars, etc. In the US in the 50's every family had one car in the middle class, now I own five cars, three motor boats, etc etc. My cylinder count is like 60 something as Tim the Toolman measures. I don't know why the earth is warming but I can remember Wisconsin Winters with snow up to a telephone pole deep in a drift, I remember Lake Winnebago freezing solid enough that you could drive your car across a 12X32 mile lake before December. Is it getting that cold, no freaking way. Years and years have gone by that we didn't have enough snow to support owning a snowmobile and the lake is just down right dangerous all winter long.
So if its now getting cold again Good. I like four seasons.........................