Fleeced? Reasonable or unreasonable quote?

[scubacrazy]

So the guy that did work on my 2002 Sportster LT, finally emailed me a quote. He saying 745.00 for the sbt swap out motor 50.00 for kit to do the swap then 750.00 for labor. Also says he would only do the job as a premix setup for that price. Said it would be an extra 300.00 to replace and install the lines and oil injector pump. So about a grand total of 18-1900.00. He forgot to even give me an estimate for reverse cable install or what that our cost. I looked the cable up and it's 150.00. This guy is a nice guy, I don't want to speak down, that's why I'm not saying his name but this estimate he gave me after I already paid 800.00 to service the boat in late April/early May. In that service he fixed one of the bunks on my trailer, fixed an oil leak, run a hot wire from my radio so it would quit losing my presets and rebuild 1 carb. So is his estimate high? It seems high to me, but I am new to boating. I do not want the fuss of premix- I know it makes the boat simpler in complexity but it also adds having to get gas cans and remixing before every outing. I called both Seadoo dealers in Tampa, and Clearwater and the don't do any service on jet boats at either location, they actually put me in touch with the guy that did my service work in April/May. Somebody throw me a line. I need a second estimate at the very least, who in the Tampa Bay/Clearwater/St. Pete area is there to turn to for jet boats?


Dang boats are expensive.

 

[LouDoo]

Boats are expensive, but not that expensive. $750.00 for and engine swap sounds way high, it sounds to me like this guy is trying to retire from this project. Honestly I haven't had outside work done on my skis or boat in years, but this sounds way excessive definitely get another price. And don't let anyone talk you out of eliminating the oil injection system.

Lou

 

[Coastiejoe]

Too much money. I have seen several on the site quoted 250-300 for the labor.


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[cyaman37]

Not sure where you are near Tampa but if you don't mind the drive I would call Chezzy in Davenport he is good and will treat you right 407-318-4132.


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[Jims5543]

I just had 2 SBT motors installed in my Challenger price out the door was $3100 tax included. I left everything in the boat bone stock no premix conversion etc..

The engines were $950 each and then it was about $500 each in labor.

While I am sure I could do the job myself, I did not have time to mess with it and decided it was best to just pay to have it done.

I hope this info helps.

 

[racerxxx]

It's a tough call. $750 seems high, but what all is included in that price? Is he detailing the inside? Painting the exhaust? Preemptively doing the welch plugs on the pipe? I'd say $400 to $500 would be fair, but you have to remember if this is this guys main income, he has tax to pay, insurance to pay, etc, etc..... So take 35% off that $750 and that is what he's taking home. Now this isn't my main income, it's a hobby and I just did a 99 Challenger last season. Dual SBT engine swap, detailed engine bay, rebuilt both pumps, new wear rings, new impellers, bead blasted and painted and rebuilt 4 carbs, ground and hand all 8 welch plugs re-welded back on, painted exhaust etc.... I'm sure I missed something. I did it for basically what he quoted you for a single swap---that was my take home, he paid for all the parts. Remember, this is not putting food on my table, I needed a double place ski trailer and this paid for it with registration. And I know the guy and he a US military VET. I would still do the same quality work for anyone but it would probably be close to if not $1000 for the complete job (twin engines). So to answer your question, $400 to $500 to do the swap, but it would come back looking mint, not just a swap and drop. I'm not saying his work would be bad or ugly, but you also didn't state what all he is doing for the $750, he might be doing more than you think. There is a bit extra work to a boat than a ski, the rear hatch has to come off and you need to work off a step ladder for a portion of it which slows down the labor for sure increasing the swap time. All in all, it's not a terrible job (I don't mind it) but if you tally the man hours, probably a full day to do a single swap 8 hours at $62.50 per hour = $500. That would be a swap,drop, and align--- no clean up. Now 2 extra hours and he's at $50 per hour and it could easily be a 10 hour job if he water tests it. The cable install would be another hour or so(add the labor rate). Not putting the injection back on.... You're like $5 in tubing and another 15 minutes of work.

You can see what I did here: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?61486-Big-thanks!


From this :

To this:

 

[scubacrazy]

Yeah his estimate was for the swap only, and said he wouldn't do the swap without replacing the oil injection pump, for an additional 300.00 total for just swap was 1550.00 750 labor 750 for motor and 50$ for a install kit. Said 300.00 additional for oil injection, and would only do the job if he took out the oil injection system .Or replace it adding that $300 I mentioned on earlier post. I completely understand overhead when you own a business, I used to own a business. 1550 premix or 1850 reinstalling the oil injection. No frills. No cleaning out anything. reverse cable hundred $50 reverse cable installation $150 grand total 2100-2250 no frills.


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[racerxxx]

Well, I guess he's adamant about the pre-mix. To make your life easy get a Sea-sense oil cup. Just fill to any gallon or 1/2 gallon and it's easy as pie to use. On the 40:1 column just find how many gallons you put in and fill the oil to that line and dump it in the gas tank. If you put in more than 8.5 gallons you just need to "do the math" to break down the gallons. My Speedster has been Pre-mix for the last 5 or 6 years and this year I'm switching back to injection. I'm using more oil than I need to. It doesn't smoke any more than my oil injected skis and I never fouled a plug idling 10 minutes or more through a no wake zone.

So it sounds like it $750 or you gotta find another dude to do it cheaper.

Here's a link to the bottle, you can find them locally or online---prices vary greatly.
http://www.amazon.com/SeaSense-MIXING-BOTTLE-50091443-Reference/dp/B000W6QJIO

 

[scubacrazy]

Yeah racerx, but I just want it to function like a stock boat. Those engineers that design those motors and premix systems do it so that it makes life simple. It's not about the math, it's more about ease of use. Does anyone know of anywhere to get an estimate within 50 miles of tampa bay fl? I would have thought more would. Apparently dealers don't care about servicing there product line any more. Sell it and set you free is the feeling I get when I've tried to locate a dealer in the area. I don't have the time nor the tools to do it, I have always worked on my own toys, it's not that I'm not technically inclined enough to do the job, I just work 50-60 hours a week, and just moved to the Tampa Bay Area last June. I don't have a place to do the work. It of course would be a good learning experience since this is my first boat, I just would prefer to pay a reasonable price to gas and go when I do have time away from work. Any one in the Tampa Bay Area that works on these things speak up, if you know someone please post a response.


Dang boats are expensive.

 

[scubacrazy]

So I've been thinking about this repair a lot. I've spent quite a bit of time researching and can't find solid answers. So one question I have is since my repair guy has given me a choice of eliminating my oil injection or replacing it altogether , question is does the boat have two oil pumps? Since it has two engines or is there one pump that splits into two lines that feed each engine? Can't seem to find that actual answer to my question from a web search. I'm not sure why but for some reason I don't want to go to mixing the gas, on land or at a marina. It's mainly a convenience thing.. I'm sure someone can shed some light.


Dang boats are expensive.

 

[racerxxx]

Each engine has it's own pump right under the carb. Drive to Philly and I'll take care of it and give you a good deal in the mean time.

 

[scubacrazy]

Racerxxx I wish you were close enough. As popular as these boats are it's just mind blowing that there aren't more mechanics in my area for these boats.


Dang boats are expensive.

 

[Brian J]

Between the estimate on the engine and the work he did in April this guy's labor prices sounds high. Not outrageously high but higher than they should be. What's his shop rate?

Oil pump vs premix is a never ending debate, the fact the guy is demanding it seems odd. I would not go premix on a seadoo engine as the oil pumps are very reliable.

For $2k+ I'd start doing the math on what is the boat actually worth (I see you're in FL where prices are the lowest in the country). Can you sell it as is for decent money and find another turn key boat??

 

[Guest_User]

well first off there are other reasons why people go premix, and other parts of what breaks on the oil pump. the oil pump itself might not fail, but I have seen seals leak and the click spring break. I won`t get into this debate...

with what racerxxx said, I agree 100%. I know nothing leaves my hands unless I`m satisfied with it.
I don`t know who your mechanic is or his way of doing things, but he must have a good reason why he wants to eliminate the pumps...

from what I`ve seen over the years, it is user error and the new boat owner that causes most of the failures, or when people buy junk and expect a great running boat on the cheap... remember you get what you pay for!

as far as those speaking from jet ski experience, yeah I`ve worked and built a few and working on boats does not even come close. at the end of the job the customer wants a well running boat and that guarantee is not easy to come by unless everything is done correctly.

Boats cost money! when will people realize that you get what you pay for and sometimes NOT...

I can attest to Racers work! he is one of the few that I see do 110%!!!

 

[Guest_User]

someone mentioned cheesy, is that the same guy from the green hulk forums that was caught in a stealing ring a few years back???

 

[Dr Honda]

$750 is too much for a single engine... UNLESS it's a seadoo dealer. They get straight time, and most charge +$100/hr. Locally... the dealer gets about $900 for the swap.

At my shop... I was always too cheap. I would generally charge $300~$350 depending on how dirty things were. AND... half way though the job I would think... "I need to charge more." (it really is a pain in the butt on the twin boats)


But then again... if it's a shop... and they are busy... a lot of times, they will charge more than normal, if they are over booked, just to get people to say no. AND... if they say yes... they get paid well.

 

[A B Able Truck]

As a mechanic for 35 years, I can totally relate to his insistence on premix - Oiling would be a done deal when measured correctly. And a warranty teardown inspection could easily identify an inadequate oil supply. Some have total faith in the reliability of the oiling system - but it's still mechanical. As the person who has to warranty the job while it also is dependent on operator error, we need to cover our a**. Every customer is different - we make mistakes, engineers make mistakes, mechanical things fail and we can't assume a customer will admit a mistake if it costs them money. It's call Risk Management

 

[Dr Honda]

As a mechanic for 35 years, I can totally relate to his insistence on premix - Oiling would be a done deal when measured correctly. And a warranty teardown inspection could easily identify an inadequate oil supply. Some have total faith in the reliability of the oiling system - but it's still mechanical. As the person who has to warranty the job while it also is dependent on operator error, we need to cover our a**. Every customer is different - we make mistakes, engineers make mistakes, mechanical things fail and we can't assume a customer will admit a mistake if it costs them money. It's call Risk Management

In all my years of playing with PWC... there is more reliability in a Mikuni oil injection, then relying on the owner to mix correctly. And since that engine needs the tank to lube the RV gears... it's best to service it, and let it run.


And... as an ex shop owner... I would NEVER remove the oil injection. The only engine I would recommend removing it from, was on the plastic gear Mercury's.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[A B Able Truck]

In all my years of playing with PWC... there is more reliability in a Mikuni oil injection, then relying on the owner to mix correctly. And since that engine needs the tank to lube the RV gears... it's best to service it, and let it run.
And... as an ex shop owner... I would NEVER remove the oil injection. The only engine I would recommend removing it from, was on the plastic gear Mercury's.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Never said I'd remove it - I run both.

 

[Guest_User]

doesn`t anyone remember outboards before VRO came out... nothing wrong with premixing, and knowing you added the correct amount of oil all the time... some of us are just that smart SMRT!:lols:

 

[Dr Honda]

doesn`t anyone remember outboards before VRO came out... nothing wrong with premixing, and knowing you added the correct amount of oil all the time... some of us are just that smart SMRT!:lols:

Yes... but back in the day... you could buy 40:1 premix at the dock pumps. Trying to properly mix oil to a 55 gal tank is impossible.

 

[Guest_User]

Yes... but back in the day... you could buy 40:1 premix at the dock pumps. Trying to properly mix oil to a 55 gal tank is impossible.

easy peasy it was a no brainer, 2 12gallon red plastic fuel cells, Evinrude engine, Evinrude oil done... no mystery...

 

[scubacrazy]

Still haven't moved forward, I got around the same estimate from another shop in the area(with less than stellar reviews)). I also listed the boat with all known issues on Craigslist. Had one guy contact me, he hasn't made an offer, I spoke at length at what issues the boat has, he said that wouldn't be a factor in his decision to buy the boat if he and I could come together on what the boat will sell for. So leaning on you guys knowledge what would be a fair price? NADA states in good shape it's book value is 5500$ so taking 2k off for the work that needs to be done would it be fair to expect 2500$ - 3k out of it? Of course I know that the Bay Area has cheaper boats, but I'm not finding anything of the same specs(same year dual 717's) for less than 5k. Thoughts??


Dang boats are expensive.