First time out, first big problem.

[dbracela]

I am sorry to have to post this. I have done all the searching I can and can't find my answer.

I have a 1999 seadoo challenger 1800 with twin 787's. Took it to the lake today, started fine, both engines ran great at low to mid RPM. At about 5000 rpm the right side started to cavitate. backed off the throttle and it went back to normal. I brought the boat to plane using mostly the left engine and then throttled up the right and it ran fine, topped out around 55mph. This happened over and over all day. Makes it tough to do a quick jump out of the hole. The wear rings are new and the impellers are in good shape. The drive shaft protector is broken off about halfway down on the right shaft. The ride plates and pumps all appear to be sealed well, I'll look at the carbon ring (if I can figure out where it is). Would that snapped shaft protector cause a problem? Also, on the left engine the speedometer cable enters the housing and is capped off. The same hole exists on the right engine but is not capped, should it be capped? Could I be sucking in air from there? On closer inspection I have noticed that the ride plate on the right side sits deeper in the hull than the other side, and the sealant is messy, would that hurt performance too? I've read about putting zip ties on a certain boot to increase pressure on the carbon seal, can someone give me a more detailed explanation on that? Could it be that the drive shaft is slipping under the higher load?

Sorry if this sounds vague, bad sunburn today, I can answer questions as they come in. Free case of beer for whoever can help. I can mail beer right?

 

[Chiro1]

Is you wear ring okay?
you will cause cavitation if not aligned okay. if you have a shaft alignment issue will mess with impeller alignment! Eric

 

[dbracela]

They appear to be ok, they are new, according to the guy I bought it off of anyway. How can I check shaft alignment?

 

[Chiro1]

I think i would do a comparative between motors then i would check, find out how to do a visual on wear ring. I haven't done that before but my tech described to me what happens when you dont have a good ring alignment! What your are describing sounds like what my tech described to me!!

 

[dbracela]

Any idea if I'm to plug the speedometer cable hole on the right?

 

[Chiro1]

Give it a shot! couldn't hurt! GL my friend!

 

[howie099]

The wear ring and impeller in good shape it is more than likley the carbone ring assembly. The shaft protectors break all the time most people remove them since if they break apart they may ding up the impeller. The whole carbone ring assembly is about $100. Dr Honda has posts with tricks to very the the carbone ring.

Most people don't think to replace it since a used one looks pretty close to a new one. Get an OEM ring and boot for sure they last longer and the built better

 

[dbracela]

will a shop manual tell me how to do this? I ordered one from ebay the other week and am still waiting for it to come in. If I have to remove the pump, how to I reseal it when intalling it, do I have to pull the driveshaft right out of the boat? If so, how do I reseal that? Roughly, what wouold it cost to have the dealership do this for me? Thanks so much guys, I'll be in the driveway tomorrow poking around at it.

 

[budsyboo]

Does your have a grease fitting by the carbon seal if so you may just have to add some grease to it to increase the pressure on the carbon seal.Check your owner manual.

 

[dbracela]

It has the grease fittings, if I add grease can I test if it solved the problem with the boat out of the water?

 

[budsyboo]

No because it is air being sucked through the fitting that is causing your cavitation.If it is your carbon seal that is causing the problem.Just put enough grease in it until you expand your boot.

 

[dbracela]

this is the grease nipple by the pto? would you happen to know how the pump is sealed to the boat? If I remove it to remove the driveshaft how do I seal it back on? If I decide to pull the shaft to put on a new carbon ring, how do I go about doing that? Thanks again, wish I had my manual, Dan.

 

[howie099]

That is the greases fitting for the PTO to drive shaft. The pump sometimes has no sealer, RTV, or neopreane. Most people opt to buy the neopreane since you can eliminate any leaks there and removing the pump it much easier than RTV. To repalce the carbone ring you need to remove the c-clip that is very close to the PTO. Push the whole assembly forward and remove it. Than you just remove the pump like 4 nuts and 4 bolts counting the nose cone. pull the pump and than pull the drive shaft.

You could of got the manual here. This part is the same has any 2-stoke seadoo, so any manual would do for the pictures.

 

[dbracela]

Ok, so I was just poking around the boat, on the right side, the very first boot or rubber cap that comes off of the pto is missing a metal clamp, the one that holds it on the driveshaft. There was a zip tie sitting loose under the pto cover, I'm assuming it fell off of there. The ss ring was very easy to push forward. Is this because there was not enough grease in the boot? If I fill at the grease nipple, which boot will expand and how does it put pressure on the seals? Thanks, Dan. Oh and yeah, should have gotten my manual here, and I will tonight I think, gotta support the forum that has been a ton of help already.

 

[howie099]

If you pushed the carbone ring assembly that easy you need a boot for sure. Only the PTO boot gets grease. The Carbone ring boot goes to the carbone ring and to the boat by hose clamps. The new style OEM ones are very hard to push back. Most people just use zip ties on the PTO boot it just holds grease and keeps the dirt out.

 

[dbracela]

I can't get that boot to seal against the driveshaft using a zip tie. Is there any harm in using a metal O clamp?

 

[dbracela]

I used a zip tie, when I added grease it pushed the driveshaft forward and seems to have put more pressure on the rings. I plan on testing it Wednesday while I wait for parts to come in. I did notice a bit of play in the driveshaft that see,s to have gone away with the added grease. If I didn't fix it with my amateur tinkering I may bring it to a dealer to give it a once over. I did call them this morning and he seemed shocked that I'd even consider that the carbon ring would need replacing. Maybe I'll mention the soft boot and see what he says.

 

[howie099]

People replace the carbone ring and boot all the time. So I can't see how the dealer is shocked about you wanting to replace them. If the dealer can't water test your boat he won't know if the carbone ring is bad or not.

 

[dbracela]

I couldn't get the boat out on the water after I played with it. Rain and work got in the way. So, I decided to just take it to the dealer and have them replace the carbon ring assemblies on both engines, along with new neoprene seals, etc... Looks like and easy job but I just don't have the time to play with it before vacation starts. I'll post the results (and the cost) in a couple of weeks, after I've had a chance to get it to the lake. The guy I dropped it off to seemed quite receptive to the idea of it being the carbon ring and says it's common. Thanks for the advice guys, and gals.

 

[dbracela]

so I got my boat back the day before vacation began, was excited until I arrived at the dealership. They said they had torn down the whole back end and put it back together using new neoprene seals, a new o ring that had been missing, and a new oateker clamp that was also missing. They said they decided to just clean the surface of the carbon rings and SS rings. Didn't bother replacing them or the accordion boots as "they looked ok." With no time to tell them to re-do the job as I had asked (new everything), I towed the boat to the cottage and put it in the water. Both sides cavitated and I took on water, filled the engine compartment to above the driveshafts. Emptied it using the bilge pump (not sure why but it doesn't automatically come on anymore), took off the pto covers, and found that the carbon rings werent lined up with the ss rings. pushed them in place and started up. No more water coming in and the left side stopped cavitating. The right side, with the soft boot, continues to cavitate on and off. I used dr. honda's trick with the waterproof grease and it helped a bit. Now that I have ime before the next outing I will change the seals, rings, boots, on my own. I'm slightly pissed that I paid for all that labor to pull it apart and they didnt even change what I had asked for. I'm also pissed that they "tested it for leaks" in the pond, and yet I damn near sunk on my first trip out.

As a side note, where else does watrer commonly enter the hull? I checked the enginge compartment and it was empty, but when i pulled it out on the trailer abou 10 gallons of water pours out of the drain. This happens every time, even after just a few hours in the water.

 

[howie099]

I never heard of cleaning the surfaces of the carbon seals. Then they go you replace. If you asked them to replace the carbon ring assembly why wouldn't they? Plus they didn't put it back to gether right if you had to lock the ring in place yourself. Water can come in the bilge line if you don't have the loop in it. The ride plates bolts and pump bolts could leak, but all of them should have silicone on them. The exhaust ports can leak if the seals are going.

 

[dbracela]

I know, can you believe it? How often do people walk into dealerships and say "here's my boat, here's my credit card, I want NEW EVERYTHING." They said they resurfaced the carbon seals by sanding them on an emery board. I kinda think they ran out of time and/or forgot to order the parts I wanted. Every time I called to ask about progress I got "we'll get to it tonight." Finally, on the last day I could leave it, they said they'd start right away and it was done 3 hours later.

Thanks for the advice on the leaks, I'll have to take a closer look. I know the dealer said the ride plate's sealing wasn't "great." They also said they fixed it but I can't see any evidence at all that they touched it.

 

[dbracela]

After weeks of running the boat as is, I have finally found some time to do some serious repairs to try and fix this cavitation issue. From the site sponsor I ordered new carbon rings, new ss rings, new boots and accordion boots, new bumpers, etc... From impros I ordered two new skat trak swirls and new wear rings. I live in Canada so it will be a while before they arrive. This week I replaced my bent reverse cable and will replace the shift lever when it arrives with the rest of the gear. I did try the "trick" to temporarily fix the cavitation issues such as zip ties on the boots and grease on the face of the rings but I didn't notice much improvement. I hope my problem isn't coming from elsewhere. I'll find out I suppose.