Coolant drain plug issue

[pwgsx]

Well I went to change the coolant and the allen plug will not come out. I almost stripped one and decided to stop before I made it worse. The boat has 114 hrs on it. Any tricks to getting the plug out? The dealer was no help and couldn't even tell me a price on a coolant change.

 

[pwgsx]

Anyone? Someone must have had this issue....

 

[RFoster130]

I checked mine and it looked good and tested ok, so i didnt bother trying to change it. 114 hours isnt a lot of use though. If it tests good and its full, i wouldnt bother with it.

 

[pwgsx]

I normally wouldn't change it BUT the one overflow container has yellow coolant and the other is green. Not sure if he added the "mix with all" types of coolant but I may just be overly anal but I don't like that type of coolant.

 

[chlarson23]

If it's a metric size which it should be, I can't really remember for sure, than try to gently tap the next bigger size up into it, generally speaking you may be able to find a standard size that is slightly bigger rather than the next metric size and go slow. if it strips it's not the end of the world you'll just need a drill and an extractor which isn't that difficult, just nerve racking if it's unfamiliar. good luck.

 

[pwgsx]

This will be my second try at this, last year it got too hot and I was out of ideas. I have a 04 Speedster 200 and want to change the coolant however the boat has other plans. I cannot get the allen plugs out :toetap05:. They are at the point of stripping the heads so I stopped. This boat was purchased used and I doubt they were ever removed and it was also used in salt water which is not helping matters. How do I get these plugs out? I looked at it yesterday to drill them out BUT I know a bolt extractor will not be strong enough and will snap. If I drill the whole plug out I would have to re-tap with a larger plug and don't know how much extra metal I have to mess with plus I wont be able to drill at a straight angle because of the hull. HELP

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Are these drain plugs made of soft brass or tough stainless, I assume the heads are allen recessed for hydrodynamics and the housing is aluminium (brass and aluminium = dissimilar metal corrosion issue SUS-316 or bronze is good(bronze is still soft), brass+aluminium = no-dice, Jose!). Drilling through the plug should allow insertion of an easy-out extractor.

Bolt extractors come in many sizes and the larger the stronger, careful drilling leaves less brass to remove, up to just leaving the threads behind. BUT........

That said, surely there are cooling recirculation hoses in the bilge leading to the heat exchanger and those hoses can be removed from the engine for reverse flushing the heat exchanger? Once flushed, a great majority of the water can be gently blown out and replaced with an appropriate inhibited coolant of the correct mixture?

I must add so you will not fall into a trap somehow: Don't overpressurize the heat exchanger while flushing lest it be damaged by the expansion pressure, DO NOT exceed the design pressure of the cooling system for whatever reason.

 

[devonte007]

I have only done 2-3 coolant changes, but I recall the plug in the heat exchanger is a stainless steel needle like screw with very fine threads and a rubber o-ring for a seal. The heat exchanger itself is aluminum, hence the dissimilar metal and potential for corrosion.

I have been lucky and not come across too many stubborn screws/bolts on our boats.

There are numerous ways to attempt corroded bolt removal, and a quick internet search turned up this page (and I'm sure there are other pages out there with additional advice: http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-10984-1.html

I think the key here is to be patient and if you have not stripped the bolt heads yet, stop. I would probably try heating/cooling cycles combined with some PB Blaster (or similar), and even taps with a hammer to try and break that corrosion bond down. You may have to do this several times over several days and keep it soaked with a rust penetrate. From what I understand it is the rapid heating/cooling shock that works best. Heating is easy with a torch, but for rapid cooling you could try a can of compressed air for cleaning computers turned upside down which will squirt out the liquid (I believe it is compressed CO2) refrigerant to help quickly cool things.

If the heads are stripped then you might have luck using a dremel and small grinding wheel to put a slot in the head you can use with a screw driver. As others have suggested, a good quality screw extractor could also work.

Worst case, it breaks and/or needs to be drilled out. You mentioned that it would be difficult to drill and tap new threads because of the hull, on my boat it would be clear and easy to do so but your design must be a bit different. I imagine there must be some way to get in there and tap new threads if needed, may have to remove some of the jet pump assembly first? If you can tap new threads you should be able to get some sort of standard plug or screw to make due without having to replace the entire heat exchanger which would be a big job.

Not sure if any of this will help, but I hope it does. Let us know how things are going, I am curious to hear how it turns out. Good luck!

 

[RFoster130]

Is there any way to use some sort of pump and hose to get it all out and not even fool with the plug issue?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

If the screw is made of stainless steel, it will be VERY difficult to drill out, stainless is not easy to drill through at all!

I would use a stainless steel plug in an aluminum housing, A+++, it will corrode less than any other metal besides soft zinc. I refuse to use brass, I'd use plastic first!

 

[pwgsx]

Here is what I am up against. The heat exchanger is under the boat and not on the rideplate :facepalm: And I have 2 of these to mess with. :cuss:

 

[pwgsx]

Is there any way to use some sort of pump and hose to get it all out and not even fool with the plug issue?

That would be a great idea, I just don't know where to start with that. I cant find anyone that has done it and even the dealer had this blank look on his face on how to remove the drain plug.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Here is what I am up against. The heat exchanger is under the boat and not on the rideplate :facepalm: And I have 2 of these to mess with. :cuss:

It will take a very good drill bit(s) to go through that SUS plug, but that's what I'd do.

If you're not comfortable with that (I can understand why you might not be) then the flush idea as posted above at least twice should work fine.

If your marine shop can't fix you up on this then you need a new shop! Personally I don't think those guys that aren't on the water can properly fix anything if they don't drag the boat to the lake and test it but this is something they should be able to tackle and still not charge an arm and a leg for.

 

[devonte007]

.............

 

[devonte007]

That is quite a pickle....I assumed all of the seadoo heat exchangers were integrated into the ride plate at the back of the boat and easy to access but apparently not.

I wonder if you could use a flexible drill extender or even a right angle drill extender to get in there to try and get those plugs out.

I imagine the heat exchangers are a pain to remove and are glued to the hull like on my boat but maybe investigate that aspect.

The least troublesome option may be to flush out the old coolant with a pump (old bilge pump or something) as others have suggested. It would be similar how some of us circulate rv antifreeze through the raw water cooling port at the end of the year to winterize. I'm sure there would be some way to adapt that technique to flush the coolant as well.

Wish I had some better advise for ya...

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Might be able to grind flat the end of a spiral easy-out and fit it (tightly) in the head to back it out, that way you wouldn't be drilling through the plug and if it didn't work then no harm done.

Another possibility might be trying to drive a slightly larger allen wrench into the head, a metric vs SAE size issue might get a combination that fits tightly. It's important to start with the correct size allen so it doesn't slip in the head and round it out.

If you can't get to the plug then just flush out the heat exchanger with fresh water through the in/out hoses and after try to blow out the remaining trapped fresh water with compressed air. Just be careful not to overpressurize the heat exchanger past the cooling system design pressure (15psi?).

 

[n-mod]

If you haven't tried any penetrating oil you need to do that first. I would never even think of removing a salt water bolt like that without it. Let it soak for a few hours then pound a easy out into the end and unscrew.

 

[pwgsx]

Been spraying it with PB Blaster for 3 days now, crossing my fingers I can get them out this weekend.

 

[pwgsx]

Weekend update- I spent 2 hours trying everything I could think of plus what everyone mentioned on here with no luck. I tossed in the towel after on my last attempt stripped both plugs. I also decided that I will construct a IV coolant flush system using the inlet and outlet of the heat exchanger.

I plan to use 2 - 5 gallon buckets, one filled with coolant, the other empty. Going to run a pump with a shutoff to limit the pressure going in, flush with water and then pump the new coolant in.
Does anyone know the size of the hose that is used so I can buy some barbed fittings??
After reading thru the manual, it seems to refill the coolant is a bit different from my RXP- filling the holding tank till it flows without air bubbles then you plug the heat exchanger. For the boat they say to remove the hose from the water pump and pour into that till it starts to come out of the housing. This would leave less air in the system I guess. Do you think I could just pump from this hose they talk about and let the old coolant flush out of the pump housing OR would that damage something? Would it be safer to remove both hoses, flush, re-install the hoses and then fill from the one they talk about? Thoughts, ideas????

 

[pwgsx]

Well I got it done this past weekend. What a pain in the butt, I wish I messed with it while the back lid was off. I had to crawl in the engine bay, remove both hoses, the coolant dumped out and I had the boat in a incline to drain into a 5 gallon bucket. Pumped in 2 gallons per engine, connected one hose and filled her up the rest of the way. Topped off the overflow tank to the Max line. Hope to take the boat out this fri and get the air bubbles out and check for leaks from the pump rebuilds and all.

One odd thing I did notice though.....When I removed the hose going to the water pump on the first engine, coolant poured out of the pump like I would have thought, the other engine it only trickled out. I put my finger in the hole and pressing on something in there ( thermostat ?) coolant poured out. Not sure why that one needed help. Both engines are not overheating so I assume they are functional. Any ideas?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The purpose of a thermostat is to ensure a minimum temperature is maintained, there are typically two failure modes for most thermostats, i) stuck closed (causes overheating b/c wax pellet is damaged and stays shut), ii) stuck open (temp is below design operating temp or takes longer to reach temp, maybe a corroded t-stat), another that sometimes occurs when the wax expansion pellet leaks is partial open, which tends to run hotter than normal.

So if one engine reaches temp appreciably faster then the other, there may be an t-stat issue?

I haven't looked at the plumbing diagram to see if these are two separated cooling loops but suspect in your case one side may have drained out through the other?

Also, many t-stats have a small air bleed rivet (jiggle pin) in them to allow air pockets to rise, perhaps one of these was stuck and you pushed it free, being stuck isn't a problem until an air pocket forms in the system, like when the system is being refilled, or a bubble forms from coolant boiling during a shutdown heat soak for instance.

Some of this is speculation of course, b/c I don't know the intricate details specific to your particular cooling system.

 

[pwgsx]

Well the one that let the coolant flow out easily and from the manual seems to be normal bc it says to refill the coolant till coolant starts pouring out of the housing at which point you re-install the hose and top off the coolant bottle. The other did flow but it was VERY VERY small stream until I wiggled something in the housing. Not a lot of pressure was needed, just a wiggle and it flowed like the other. This housing seemed to have been worked on before bc it had a clamp on the housing where it separates. Last summer when I did hook up both engines to the CANDOO system the engine temps were pretty much the same. Water testing this Thursday so we will see what happens.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

My guess would be the jiggle pin in the t-stat was stuck and you dislodged it. If that's the case then I doubt this reoccurs unless there's trash in the cooling system.