Can't remove impeller

[dbracela]

I can't get my impeller out. I have the tool, it's in a vice, just won't turn. Any advice? Manual says counter clockwise, correct?

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... it's normal threads. BUT... they can be tight. I often have to get out a long pipe, with a breaker bar to get them to go. (total of 6' worth of wrench)

Hitting the threads with some penetrating oil can't hurt either.

 

[dbracela]

Thanks Dr. Honda,

It'll be soaking in oil overnight as I head to work. I'll try the extension tomorrow after I buy a new vise, I snapped mine right off the bench.

 

[dbracela]

Dave at Impros recommended the 16-24 skat trak swirl, he said the 17-22 would be too steep for my boat. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Dr Honda]

I'm going to say that I've lost respect for the guys at Impros. I think they are just trying to sell crap that they have sitting on the shelf.

They sold an under pitched impeller to a member here during the summer. The original complaint was that he lost 5 mph up top. Then after talking for a while... we realized that they sold the wrong pitch to him. (fyi, there have been 4 or 5 issues this summer, on this board, with Impros)

I have found that Skat-Trak's recommendations have always been spot-on. They make the impellers, and they get to play with them. SO.... they can do a few swaps to find out what works best. The 17-22 (standard Swirl) is Skat-Trak's recommendation. Besides... a 16-24 has more "exit" pitch, and more transition... so how is a 17-22 "Too Steep"??


Just an FYI... I ran a 16-22 on my single engine Sportster, and it was great. (but that had a single 720 engine) It's simply not enough pitch for the 800.


With that said... your comments about Impro's was my last support for them. (I will no longer support/recomend that shop)

 

[Guest_User]

Dave at Impros recommended the 16-24 skat trak swirl, he said the 17-22 would be too steep for my boat. Any thoughts on this?

There used to be 17\22 skats in this boat when the previous owner had it. He had nothing but cavitation issues, even tho there were new parts/pumps in the boat at the time... he simply ordered them from Dennis Kirk just bc it was in the catalog. IMHO I think there are a bit tall for this heavy boat. take it for what it`s worth.
The root angles and hub designs are not the same between Solas and Skat, so the numbers can not be measured as equal pitch numbers between the 2 brands. believe it or not the OEM impellers aren`t that bad...

I'm going to say that I've lost respect for the guys at Impros. I think they are just trying to sell crap that they have sitting on the shelf.

They sold an under pitched impeller to a member here during the summer. The original complaint was that he lost 5 mph up top. Then after talking for a while... we realized that they sold the wrong pitch to him. (fyi, there have been 4 or 5 issues this summer, on this board, with Impros)

I have found that Skat-Trak's recommendations have always been spot-on. They make the impellers, and they get to play with them. SO.... they can do a few swaps to find out what works best. The 17-22 (standard Swirl) is Skat-Trak's recommendation. Besides... a 16-24 has more "exit" pitch, and more transition... so how is a 17-22 "Too Steep"??


Just an FYI... I ran a 16-22 on my single engine Sportster, and it was great. (but that had a single 720 engine) It's simply not enough pitch for the 800.


With that said... your comments about Impro's was my last support for them. (I will no longer support/recomend that shop)

I`ve heard the same complaints every season, when they get busy. I`ve been dealing with Impros for years and no issues, Dave has always sent me the right impeller and even tweeked it when I asked for more or less rpm in tuning. How many good dealings are out there that we don`t here of? People also have to realize that he`s basically a one man army/small shop that gets tons of work... sometimes getting a hold of them on the phone is difficult, but they have always returned my emails, and I did get lucky having them answering the phone later in the day...
I am happy with the solas 15\23`s that are in the boat now. I`m pretty sure 16\24 was an option, but I was more interested in bottom end, than top end speed. The 17\22`s did produce a few more MPH up top, but the hole shot suffered as did getting the boat up on plane... and I know that could be contributed to other problems...
There really is no excuse for poor customer care when you do pump and impeller sales and repair, for those that have had issues...
I always try and do my ordering in the off season, this recent time it was the busy season and I got lucky calling at the right moment.
Will I use Impros, again sure!:thumbsup:

and true! the guys at Skat are good! Had pump and impeller work done in the past...

 

[Dr Honda]

As always... I welcome countering input.

BUT... here's were the problem lies.....

Dave is recommending different impellers for some reason. The other person, with the slow boat... didn't ask for more torque or speed or any other change. Dave just said... you need a 16-21 Swirl in that boat. (it was also an 1800) Now... after we found out that he got sold an impeller for a 720 engine (dave's mistake) Impro's wouldn't take them back. BUT... now... for the same boat... he's recommending a TOTALY different impeller. This leads me to believe that he's selling off old stock.


dbracla: Question to you... did you ask for more speed, or bottom end? Or did Dave just give you his recommendation??


I don't know Dave personally, and I don't have anything against him... but this summer, I've seen some pretty blatant problems that he won't back, after the fact.

 

[dbracela]

I talked back and forth with Dave through email and he asked what I was looking for - more pulling/towing, or more top end. I told him we use it mainly for skiing and tubing, he gave me two options of which neither were the 17/22. His final recommendation was the 16-24. I told him that skat-trak's Application chart said I should use the 17-22 and he said that my boat would have a "hard time turning them" and that the 16-24 would give me a better lower end and better hook up with less cavitation. Said if it was his boat that's what he would use. I saw them in the application chart too, but says they are for "heavily modded" engines. So now, do I put them in and see how it goes, or ship them back and get what everyone else says is right? Being able to pull up skiers and less cavitation are my main goals, not too worried about crazy speed.

I had read that post, last night, on the guy who lost that much speed, that's why I asked the question. This may be moot if I can't get the damn old ones out anyway!!

 

[Dr Honda]

Right.... that's the thing. If he said the 17-22 was too steep.... a 16-24 is even higher... with more acceleration across the blades. (didn't make sense)

I didn't know you already had them. (sorry) I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. They are for a mod'ed 800. Yes... your boat is going to work with them... but the higher pitch will probably bog the engines.

OK... If I was in your position... write him an email asking why he recommended them. Also, state that you are worried about them being too high of a pitch for your stock engines. Then... finally ask him... "Since they were bought on his rcomendation, would he be willing to take them back if they don't work properly?"



Like I said before... the impeller chart that Skat-Trak has is great for general use. Then... the "Rule of thumb" is one degree more for speed, one degree less for pulling. Also... add a degree based on engine mods.

You don't have to tell him that we were talking about it here... but if he won't back his own opinion with a guaranty... then I would ask for a return authorization, and get the impellers that Skat-Track recommends.

 

[dbracela]

Actually, Here's the conversation, cut and pasted from email - you'll have to read it from the bottom up, sorry.


The 14.5/22.5 would drop speed by about 5 mph. If it were mine, I
> would go with the two 16/24. I would NOT use the 17/22. Your engines
> can turn them, but it's just too much pitch and for that much money,
> not work doing. The
> 16/24 will make a huge increase in performance, and worth the money
> and time.
> Thanks
>
> David
>
> Impros
> 610 Amigos Dr., Ste. B
> Redlands, CA 92373
> 909.793.2900
> www.impros.com
> http://twitter.com/Improsimpellers
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel [mailto:danielbraceland@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:14 PM
> To: david
> Subject: Re: Contact Form
>
> Thanks Dave,
>
> When you say the top speed will drop, how much are we talking about?
> We mostly use the boat for skiing and tubing. I had read on the
> application chart that the 17/22 was the right one. I just want to
> make sure before I put in my order, as I don't really understand it all.
Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2012-07-30, at 4:35 PM, "david" <impros@impros.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dan,
>> Yes we do. I would use two of the Swirls at 16/24 pitch for a nice
>> bottom
> end increase and much better hook up (less spinning). If you mainly
> want bottom end for towing, and don't mind losing a few mph of top
> speed, you can also go with two 14.5/22.5 Swirls. Top speed will drop,
> but like I said, the best increase for planning.
>> Here's a link to the impeller. Yes, we do ship to Canada, either UPS
>> or
> USPS. I hear USPS is cheaper and still gets there quick, without the
> extra charges that I hear UPS charges you guys.
>>
>> Here is the link...
>>
> http://impros.com/store/index.php/impellers/skat-trak-impellers/skat-t
> rak-se a-doo-pwc-impellers/skat-trak-sea-doo-swirl-140-impeller.html
>>
>> David
>>
>> Impros
>> 610 Amigos Dr., Ste. B
>> Redlands, CA 92373
>> 909.793.2900
>> www.impros.com
>> http://twitter.com/Improsimpellers
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Custom 2 [mailto:impros@impros.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:24 PM
>> To: impros
>> Subject: Contact Form
>>
>>
>>
>> Name: Dan
>> E-mail: danielbraceland@hotmail.com
>> Telephone:
>>
>> Comment: I'm looking to purchase two skat-trak swirl impellers for a
>> 1998
> Seadoo Challenger 1800 with twin 110's. Do you sell these and do you
> ship to Canada? Thanks, Dan.
>>

 

[Dr Honda]

The 14.5-22.5 is for the twin 720 powered Spotrster 1800. (or a moded single 720)

His recommendations make no sense to me. (one is higher, and one is lower pitch from what you wanted) Like I said... I think he just wanted to sell you something he had on the shelf.

 

[dbracela]

I'll email him and see what he says. No worries, I won't mention this forum or conversation. Thanks, for the advice.

PS: I got the old one out, the breaker par with extra pipe was the trick.

 

[dbracela]

Dr. Honda, I am sorry but I have another question. My driveshaft came out and there was no rubber plug on the pto side. I bought one and went to install the driveshaft. When I slid it into the pto the splines won't completely seat into the pto. The section of splines that are tapered stay outside of the pto. With the dust boot on you can't see them. Is this at all normal? Or should I just run without the rubber plug in that end?

 

[dbracela]

It's done. A few scraped knuckles and a replacement pump later it's done. I hope the cavitation is gone, otherwise, who wants to buy a used challenger?

 

[Dr Honda]

I know it's done... and I responded to your other thread... but the old PTO bumper could be stuck up in the PTO.

 

[dbracela]

Cavitation is gone and the impellers seemed to have the right oomph for me. Lost a couple off the top end, 49mph by gps. Great take off though. thanks for all your help.

 

[Guest_User]

Cavitation is gone and the impellers seemed to have the right oomph for me. Lost a couple off the top end, 49mph by gps. Great take off though. thanks for all your help.

sounds good! what pitch are you running now?
I`m running the Solas 15\23`s and we`re at 44.8 GPS @ 6600 rpm with 2 adults, one dog and gear with a full tank of fuel. I`m sure I could squeek out another mile or 2 running wot in the right conditions, but like yours the boat planes off quick... I`ll sacrifice a little top end anytime to get some bottom end to get this boat out of the water..., and it seems do better in the chop as well...

Cool, you got your underway!:thumbsup::cheers:

 

[dbracela]

Running skat trak swirls 16/24. Was worried as the chart called for 17/22's. I was alone in the boat with maybe 150 pounds of gear (a ton of tools always come with me after repairs), a half tank of gas. We like to ski and tube and wakeboard so the low end grunt is more important for us. While cruising around today I usually had it at just past half throttle and kept a steady 40. I rarely run it wide open anyway, so who cares if I lost a couple (few?) mph. This is with all new driveline seals, new wear rings and impellers and a new to me pump. I could finally spin the boat, could finally hop out of the hole, it now drives straight. Today was a good day after yesterday's nightmare. Aren't dogs in boats a ton of fun?

 

[Dr Honda]

Jut for our knowledge.... what is MAX RPM's with these impellers?

 

[dbracela]

both engines were hitting 7200 at WOT. Is that right?

 

[dbracela]

I should mention, with the old set up, once passed the cavitation and up on plane, that right side's revs would bounce around in choppy water. That has also disappeared. It's like a new boat. I really am thankful guys, now I can stop clogging up the forum and go have some fun.

 

[Guest_User]

Running skat trak swirls 16/24. Was worried as the chart called for 17/22's. I was alone in the boat with maybe 150 pounds of gear (a ton of tools always come with me after repairs), a half tank of gas. We like to ski and tube and wakeboard so the low end grunt is more important for us. While cruising around today I usually had it at just past half throttle and kept a steady 40. I rarely run it wide open anyway, so who cares if I lost a couple (few?) mph. This is with all new driveline seals, new wear rings and impellers and a new to me pump. I could finally spin the boat, could finally hop out of the hole, it now drives straight. Today was a good day after yesterday's nightmare. Aren't dogs in boats a ton of fun?

Awesome!!! same here, I`ll spin it up for a few, then back down and cruise around, I have not really pushed the boat for any real distance since the repower. I can`t hit 7200, closer to 7000, and a few hundred down on the Starboard engine, reason still unknown.
anyways:
So for the record Dave @ Impros hit the nail on the head for what you wanted, correct?

both engines were hitting 7200 at WOT. Is that right?

Yes, I believe the limiter is @ 7200...

Good job! and yes, Dog`s on the boat are great to! :thumbsup::cheers:

 

[Dr Honda]

I'm actually surprised you are getting to 7200. That's where your rev limiter is at. Is the clearance OK in the pumps? Ideally you should be 150 to 200 RPM under the rev limiter.

 

[dbracela]

What do you mean by "clearance in the pumps?" The gauge needle was a little over 7000, so if I had to guess I'd say I hit the limiter at 7200. I have it on video, I'll go double check.

 

[dbracela]

Yup, video shows both tachs at 7200, at 55 + mph (stock speedometer), 49 by gps.