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Can't find parts
- Thread starter letford
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
I'm sure an New Zealand dealer can provide a substitute or aftermarket replacement, maybe try contacting these guys?
http://jfks.co.nz/
http://jfks.co.nz/
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just tried - no luck. Just told me it was discontinued, which I know
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
[MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] can likely provide one. The jet ski of similar model uses this coil I believe except the plug wire is different length this might account for the different part number. Thus the wire needs to be swapped if the original wire is still in decent condition.
Let's see what Minnetonka4me says, There is a solution!
Let's see what Minnetonka4me says, There is a solution!
Thank you!
Any coil from a 787 powered ski will work, you will just need to change the coil wires since they're longer on the boats.
I'll assume you have no spark? If so have you unscrewed the spark plug boots and cut the wire back 6mm or so and then thread it back together and try again. Or, swap coils from one engine to the other. If none of that, why are you looking for a coil?
I'll assume you have no spark? If so have you unscrewed the spark plug boots and cut the wire back 6mm or so and then thread it back together and try again. Or, swap coils from one engine to the other. If none of that, why are you looking for a coil?
Hi....thanks for the response.
1 engine stalls at 5500 rpm and the mechanic doesn't know what the problem is. He swapped the fuel pump and carbs around and thinks that the only thing left could be the coils.
Both engines have been fully reconditioned and the engines are good.
1 engine stalls at 5500 rpm and the mechanic doesn't know what the problem is. He swapped the fuel pump and carbs around and thinks that the only thing left could be the coils.
Both engines have been fully reconditioned and the engines are good.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Is engine speed limited to 5500 RPM or does it stop running completely and won't restart? Coils can be swapped around and each motor has two coils, right? Thus shouldn't stop completely if one cylinder doesn't fire but RPM will be severely limited, I'd guess to about 3000 RPM
Usually when a coil is failing, cylinder begins misfiring once the coil begins breaking down as temperature increases during running but will begin working once again after the coil cools off also will misfire a lot.
If misfiring, depending on the exact symptom, might just need to trim 6~12mm off a plug wire end that's broken inside, they can burn internally near the sparkplug connector.
It's unusual for a coil to fail unless maybe it's exposed to excessive moisture and corrosive salt but they're inside a box to keep this from happening.
So we need a more exact description of the symptom, for example does the engine stall running completely or just RPM is limited to 5500 RPM? If it stalls completely, it may not be getting fuel due to an air leak in a fuel line or a weak fuel pump.
Depending on the type you have, many boats have the divorced type of fuel pump which are famous for wearing out and a replacement isn't terribly expensive. The fuel pump configuration that's integrated into the carburetor (many boats were divorced fuel pump not mounted on carburetor) is very reliable.
Also, the voltage regulators are suspect if RPM cannot be achieved and misfirng occurs. If system voltage rises too high or becomes electrically noisy due to faulty regulator, the ignition system will malfunction. The mechanic can disconnect the voltage regulator temporarily to isolate this possibility.
As you know, troubleshooting is a process of eliminating the possibilities, one by one.
Usually when a coil is failing, cylinder begins misfiring once the coil begins breaking down as temperature increases during running but will begin working once again after the coil cools off also will misfire a lot.
If misfiring, depending on the exact symptom, might just need to trim 6~12mm off a plug wire end that's broken inside, they can burn internally near the sparkplug connector.
It's unusual for a coil to fail unless maybe it's exposed to excessive moisture and corrosive salt but they're inside a box to keep this from happening.
So we need a more exact description of the symptom, for example does the engine stall running completely or just RPM is limited to 5500 RPM? If it stalls completely, it may not be getting fuel due to an air leak in a fuel line or a weak fuel pump.
Depending on the type you have, many boats have the divorced type of fuel pump which are famous for wearing out and a replacement isn't terribly expensive. The fuel pump configuration that's integrated into the carburetor (many boats were divorced fuel pump not mounted on carburetor) is very reliable.
Also, the voltage regulators are suspect if RPM cannot be achieved and misfirng occurs. If system voltage rises too high or becomes electrically noisy due to faulty regulator, the ignition system will malfunction. The mechanic can disconnect the voltage regulator temporarily to isolate this possibility.
As you know, troubleshooting is a process of eliminating the possibilities, one by one.
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Hi, no engine speed is not limited. Mechanic said he couldn't swap the coils because the wires were different lengths.
It used to missfire when the issue first started, now one of the engines just stalls completely.
It starts again OK and runs beautifully below 5500rpm until I creep up to it then it stalls.
Thanks for your help.
Steve
It used to missfire when the issue first started, now one of the engines just stalls completely.
It starts again OK and runs beautifully below 5500rpm until I creep up to it then it stalls.
Thanks for your help.
Steve
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Okay, let me think about that. Is there any possibility you can start the engine out of water and see if the same thing happens? I was thinking this is a two-engine boat thus swapping from left engine to right engine for example.
It's very important to always change spark plugs when experiencing this type of issue, I'm sure you did that already just mentioning it.
If the engine stalls completely and quits (falls on it's face), that's most often due to it runs out of fuel. This leads to checking the fuel lines and all fittings for leaks but I'd bet already your mechanic did this. Any little leak will allow too much air to enter and fuel starvation occurs (pretty common). Two most troublesome places are the fuel/water separator bowl gasket and the fuel shutoff valve internal o-rings. As a quick and dirty method, I usually remove the fuel filler cap to avoid pressurizing the fuel tank then disconnect the fuel line from the fuel pump inlet and blow low pressure air (less than 5psi) back towards the fuel tank while listening for leaks. Under normal conditions, you will hear air bubbling up from the bottom of the tank pickup tube much like a fish tank airator and see or hear no leaks in the various fittings. Also you may shut off the fuel shutoff valve and the pressure must hold.
Sometimes debris from over the years can lodge in the fuel valve and partially block fuel flow, causing fuel starvation. This can be avoided by temporarily bypassing the fuel valve.
Since we haven't heard from [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] yet, let's concentrate on this coil.... I need to confirm which type is fitted in your boat, since they're not cheap and probably even more expensive in New Zealand then I'd imagine.
Aside from plug wire length, there are basically two types of coils used on this era of engines, single and dual type coils. maybe your local dealer has an alternative in stock and your mechanic can work with to swap plug wires as necessary..
Specifically, in the 1st case there's a single coil design that fires two spark plugs, it has terminals on it for two plug wires. In the 2nd case there are two separate coils. This 2nd case doesn't seem to match the drawing I see from the drawings of your boat, it appears you have the single coil? This would be consistent with NO SPARK BOTH CYLINDERS, b/c if the coil breaks down both will drop out.
(It makes a huge difference, need to get this basic difference correct!)
BUT!!! Based on there are two separate part numbers, this indicates two separate coils. Thus I'm confused by that.
Can you confirm your boat has the two separate coils system or single coil? This little detail is important to the entire detail of the electrical system in many ways, there are major electrical differences between single and dual coil system thus this is the one single most key point for many of the electrical parts, including the flywheel type.
1997 787 XP for example, shows just a single coil, p/n 278001254 IGNITION COIL You can see, this single coil fires both plugs. If yours is also the single coil configuration, I believe this coil should be able to accept your longer plug wires, and/or replacement wires if required.
Point I'm making is, I'm not convinced any 787 coil is applicable depending on this major detail, we need to confirm which type of ignition system your boat was configured with, for this reason.
It's very important to always change spark plugs when experiencing this type of issue, I'm sure you did that already just mentioning it.
If the engine stalls completely and quits (falls on it's face), that's most often due to it runs out of fuel. This leads to checking the fuel lines and all fittings for leaks but I'd bet already your mechanic did this. Any little leak will allow too much air to enter and fuel starvation occurs (pretty common). Two most troublesome places are the fuel/water separator bowl gasket and the fuel shutoff valve internal o-rings. As a quick and dirty method, I usually remove the fuel filler cap to avoid pressurizing the fuel tank then disconnect the fuel line from the fuel pump inlet and blow low pressure air (less than 5psi) back towards the fuel tank while listening for leaks. Under normal conditions, you will hear air bubbling up from the bottom of the tank pickup tube much like a fish tank airator and see or hear no leaks in the various fittings. Also you may shut off the fuel shutoff valve and the pressure must hold.
Sometimes debris from over the years can lodge in the fuel valve and partially block fuel flow, causing fuel starvation. This can be avoided by temporarily bypassing the fuel valve.
Since we haven't heard from [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] yet, let's concentrate on this coil.... I need to confirm which type is fitted in your boat, since they're not cheap and probably even more expensive in New Zealand then I'd imagine.
Aside from plug wire length, there are basically two types of coils used on this era of engines, single and dual type coils. maybe your local dealer has an alternative in stock and your mechanic can work with to swap plug wires as necessary..
Specifically, in the 1st case there's a single coil design that fires two spark plugs, it has terminals on it for two plug wires. In the 2nd case there are two separate coils. This 2nd case doesn't seem to match the drawing I see from the drawings of your boat, it appears you have the single coil? This would be consistent with NO SPARK BOTH CYLINDERS, b/c if the coil breaks down both will drop out.
(It makes a huge difference, need to get this basic difference correct!)
BUT!!! Based on there are two separate part numbers, this indicates two separate coils. Thus I'm confused by that.
Can you confirm your boat has the two separate coils system or single coil? This little detail is important to the entire detail of the electrical system in many ways, there are major electrical differences between single and dual coil system thus this is the one single most key point for many of the electrical parts, including the flywheel type.
1997 787 XP for example, shows just a single coil, p/n 278001254 IGNITION COIL You can see, this single coil fires both plugs. If yours is also the single coil configuration, I believe this coil should be able to accept your longer plug wires, and/or replacement wires if required.
Point I'm making is, I'm not convinced any 787 coil is applicable depending on this major detail, we need to confirm which type of ignition system your boat was configured with, for this reason.
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Further FYI:
Also, I want to mention it's possible the MPEM computer is defective. In the case of twin engines there were two types of boats where some had a single MPEM that contained in one sealed box a dual MPEM to control both engines. These are difficult to come by, donors are few.
Then at some point in the case of twin engine boats, BRP switched to two separate MPEMs in separate sealed boxes. This configuration allows for the use of a jet ski donor replacement if necessary, it's much easier to locate a suitable replacement.
Also, I want to mention it's possible the MPEM computer is defective. In the case of twin engines there were two types of boats where some had a single MPEM that contained in one sealed box a dual MPEM to control both engines. These are difficult to come by, donors are few.
Then at some point in the case of twin engine boats, BRP switched to two separate MPEMs in separate sealed boxes. This configuration allows for the use of a jet ski donor replacement if necessary, it's much easier to locate a suitable replacement.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Okay so to confirm, your twin engine boat is fitted with 4 separate ignition coils, 2 of them for left engine and 2 of them for right engine, correct?
This is the later style of ignition system, BTW.
There are 2 coils in the boat. 1 for each engine. There is no fuel/water separator. There is no fuel shut off valve either so don't go down that path. What I would do since I own the same exact boat is take the coil from the running engine and swap it. It doesn't have to be in the box to work. You'll need to extend the wires going to the coil, you can go to the store and get male spade connectors and some ring terminals to do this. Very easy, your mechanic should have tried this. Actually, you can disconnect the plug that goes into the top of the black ebox where the coil is and just pull the entire thing, then just plug it into the plug from the other side and not even have to extend any wires probably. The other thing to do is actually ohm the primary and secondary of the coil. The procedure is in the manual and will take all of 10 minutes. Also, like I said before, clip the wires to get back to fresh wire. Right now you have free parts just to trouble shoot.
Not sure! I'm ask the mechanic. Thanks
Thanks, I'll get the mechanic to try it!
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Also, this might be the ignition pickup sensor that receives an ignition timing signal from the magnets on the flywheel rotating inside the magneto housing.
Another something to check.
Another something to check.
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