Boat is at the dealership...warranty issues

[Sikiguya]

After a relatively 'mild' winter, we have been blessed with some warmer weather. 70's and 80's. I had some warranty issues that I talked to the dealership about last fall. They said that they were simply doing winterizing and all warranty issue will be address in spring. I wasn't worried since I had the Best Plus until next year.

Here are the issues. Gel coat crack on the starboard side. Isolated in an area that is about a foot in diameter. The bottom side of the sun deck lid is all cracked. My seats were refusing to lock in place. And the light below the driver seat would come on and off.

The dealership guys were pretty good about everything. Interesting thing though was that they asked me what lakes I had the boat in. I told him basically the lake by my house, a couple of smaller lake, and Lake Geneva twice. I inquired why and he said that BRP will ask if it had been in Lake Michigan. Would that void a warranty? I will know what they will say next week. I am curious...how do they exactly repair the gelcoat?

 

[machprodcomp]

What Dealer?

 

[Sikiguya]

Nielsen's. The guy didn't say that they wouldn't do the warranty work if it was in Lake Michigan...which it hadn't. However, I was curious. When I asked, he said that he has seen boats that get left out on the lake that gets completely trashed due to the roughness of the water.

 

[Sikiguya]

Bad news from BRP. They won't cover anything. Said the gelcoat is just cosmetic and it isn't covered. Spoke with Craigmri and will be contacting BRP tomorrow. Wish me luck!:boxing_smiley:

 

[Sikiguya]

Update. Last Thursday, I tried calling BRP. Spoke to a representative and she put me on hold...and never came back.

Friday morning. Took the day off and called again. This time, I got a message that said that they were all in a meeting from 9:30 to 10:30 EST. Okay. Waited and called a gazillion time after 10:30 EST. Got a recorded message that said that all representatives are busy and that I must call back. Can't even stand on hold. URGGH! Finally spoke to them and explained everything again.

Issue 1: Gelcoat cracking. I told them that I was unable that it was not being covered by the warranty. I explained to them that I have talked to other Seadoo owners where this was not the case. Even the guy at the dealership said that it was caused by either an impact(which he did not see any sign or evidence of) or thin gelcoat and it was a stress crack(which is more likely). BTW, cost of repair is $1400.

Issue 2: Swim deck. The gelcoat on the fiberglass underneath has started to crack. After speaking with the tech, he explained that even if I change it out, it may happen again as it is designed to flex and will probably do so. Cost of repair $2600($2200 for the part + $200 shipping + $200 labor) I am okay with this not being done as it is out of sight and more cosmetic than anything else.

Issue 3: Seats not locking. I cannot believe they originally deny this issue. I asked them if they really want the liability of me getting in an accident because my seat swings side to side as I am driving the boat. Cost of repair(unknown yet)

BRP started a customer service case and is 'reviewing' it. I called them and the dealer Wednesday and both have nothing new for me. Guess it is a waiting game.

 

[rookie101]

I can't believe they would try to tell you this stuff was not covered under warranty. It's too bad you weren't closer to the dealer that Craig was taking his boats to, they seemed to be the best of the bunch from the reading I've done about dealer experiences on the forum. If I recall correctly he has had gel-coat cracking on both his Utopia, and the Challenger 180 with no problems.

Make sure you keep us updated on the outcome.

Aaron:cheers:

 

[RFoster130]

Wow, thats carzy. What is the point of a warranty if they deny everything.

 

[Sikiguya]

4/2 Boat dropped off at dealer

4/7 Dealer tells me that BRP deny the warranty request

4/9 talked with BRP and opened a case

4/13 Spoke with a rep. No update

4/22 Spoke with a rep. No update

4/30 Spoke with a rep. Been assigned to a case person by name of Pierre. Left message.

Man, if my clients got this type of responses, I would have strung up by the SEC and the state's OCI.

Just irked that the boat is just sitting at the dealership instead of its nice warm garage at home!:rofl:

 

[Sikiguya]

5/5 Finally got a hold of Pierre and we had a long discussion. Basically he is from the customer service side. We were waiting for the decision from Technical side on the Gelcoat issue. He told me that they were in discussion with the dealership on this.

It was long discussion but he contend that the boat was out of the new boat warranty and that the Best Plus does not cover for these issue. (That is not how they advertise that program! From what ads I've seen, they make the Best Plus warranty sound like an extended warranty. In reality, it is actually like the powertrain warranty on a car!).

I pointed that that manufacturers do make repair after warranty period if it is determined to be a manufacturer defect. Example, Toyota and the gas pedals. I also reference Craigmri's issue with both his boat and gel coat issues. We went back and forth and we finally agree to wait for the technical support's decision. He said that he would look up Craig's situation and compare.

I then spoke with Frank @ Nielsen's. He told me that he has yet to hear from BRP!!!:ack:

 

[Sikiguya]

!!!

5/5 Spoke with Pierre again. He seem to be a nice enough fella. He informed me that he is still waiting on a decision. He told me that he went back to 1995 and did not find Craig's information or anything with Barney. I explained that I am very unhappy that this is turning into a nightmare. I told him that I was quite adamant on this issue and will be willing to turn to legal avenue to resolve this. I asked him to contact Craig for more information on his boat. He did not want to do that. Only 'I' can provide him with information. I got a fax number for him and told him I will be providing that information.

I called Craig immediately afterward. Craig got me those Hull numbers that night. THANKS, CRAIG!

5/6, I drafted the information on a fax and faxed it to the number provided. Not working. I called Pierre and got another fax number. Same thing. I left the information on his voicemail and followed up in an hour. Spoke with Pierre again. He was more cordial this time. I informed him that Craig was in the same position with his 2008 Challenger. It was out of the warranty and only on the Best Plus warranty on this boat. I told him that Barney had to fight it several times(3 times according to Craig). We are still waiting to hear from the technical support. He also told me that he did not have any pictures on file with the claim. :ack:

Today, I spoke with Frank @ Neilsen. He is still waiting for a response. I did ask him if he have seen this issue with other BRP products. He hesitated but proceeded to tell me no. He said most gel coat issues he has seen is below the waterlines from impacts. Huh.

 

[Sikiguya]

Post 9 was 5/4.

 

[TVZ1965]

Feel your pain dealing with BRP. Call 715-848-4967 ask for Nancy Larsen she is the one that also handles the Better Bussiness Bureau complaints. I have Pierre before its a run around. I had 3 customer service reps before dealing with Nancy. :cheers:

 

[Craigmri]

Jim,

I feel your pain. I lived it several times with both boats.

Seadoo did in fact cover all claims but many times I had to fight the fight. In your case(although I havent actually seen the damage in person), I believe the gelcoat on the Utopia 205 and Challenger 180 is suspect. I only point out those two models as I have no experience with other model Seadoos. Both of my boats had gelcoat cracks that were not attributed to impact. To this day I do not have an understanding as to the cause of this on my boats but I suspect either thin fiberglass permitting excess flexing or simply a defective gelcoat product or application.

I would love to hear from Zach who purchased my Utopia to learn if he has seen any new gelcoat stress cracks. All were fixed by BRP prior to me selling it.

My Challenger 180 was in for three seperate gel-coat repairs and on each repair multiple locations had cracks. The locations were in spots that there was no conceivable way anything could have impacted the boat. The swim platform on my Challenger 180 flexed really bad when you walked across it. I'm only 180 pounds and I would flex it bad simply walking on it. No wonder this cracked up bad.

I sold my Utopia and bought a challenger so I could fit it in my garage. But after my challenger exhibited the same gelcoat issues my Utopia had I decided BRP has issues. Jims boat seems to once again confirm my opinion.

Pierre was kind enough to review my cases with Jim and this demonstrates a presidence has been set in regards to repairing gel-coat even if the boat is out of the one-year manufacterer warranty. If they fixed my boat out of "good will", why would they descriminate against you Jim?

I can understand if the damage was caused by impact but it is clear the Gel-coat(or fiberglass) was a manufacterer defect in my case and I'm certain in Jims case too. BRP needs to stand behind their product and make this right.

I believe the most basic principle of business:

Treat somebody right, they tell someone.......Treat somebody wrong, THEY TELL EVERYONE!!!!!!

Craig

 

[Craigmri]

Jim,

Are they holding your boat hostage?

Craig

 

[global1]

gel cracks

My 2007 utopia is still under 5 year hull warranty.Last year took boat to north county San Diego dealer they took pics of cracks through sun deck and forwarded to brp.brp said deck was not part of hull??? This April while winching boat on trailer I heard a loud crack from bow eye.Went to different dealer in corona.they took photo of bow eye cracks and cracks on stern hooks sent photos to brp.Brp said they are cosmetic.Next I will go to two of their approved repair shops and get estimates.then call them back.

 

[Craigmri]

It getting more and more difficult to recommend BRP products when they make owners stuggle to get defects repaired even when your under warranty.

I'm officially on a boycotte of BRP until our member boats get fixed!

Craig

 

[machprodcomp]

Anyway to forward this whole post to BRP to let them know there is a lot of members here reading about this problem. They need to wake up and start supporting there product and warranty issues!!!!! Or lose us!!!! Bad news travels fast. How about a online member petition we can start and send them.
This might open there eyes.

 

[Sikiguya]

*#&$! U#$(#! #@&%^!!!!

Okay. Now that is out. Here is what has happened. BRP tech support has made their decision and it is basically NO! I spoke at length with Pierre who was very helpful in explaining that it is BRP's tech support final call based on the information provided. Basically, it is up to me and my dealership to prove that it is a manufacturer defect. Then, it will be up them to get that information and make a decision, at that time, if they would respond to that request for BRP to cover for the repair. I found out from my dealership that due to all this waiting, it would be at least a month and a half before my boat would be worked on...that is half my season!!

So this morning, first opportunity I got, I drove down and picked up my dirty boat that has been sitting out for the past month for no good *&^%ing reason. Interesting enough, I spoke to a Ron at the dealership about this issue. He basically said that BRP fights every gelcoat issue. They don't like to deal with any of this. I mentioned to him about the issues I have heard on the web...especially with global1's incident. He immediately said,"Oh, that is a structural issue, it would have been taken care of." When I told him that he was fighting it, he was very surprised.

I am going to call next week to Nancy Larsen(thanks TVZ1965). I will see if she will be able to help me at all.

I am really considering legal action. I am thinking of either a small claim issue in court or finding a class action attorney because I am starting to get a sense of a hard ball tactic by BRP over a known problem that they have been utilizing their customer service department in reducing their bottom line. This is similar to tactic that Allstate used in the 90's. Google Good hands or boxing gloves. They had a consultant that advised them that it would be cost efficient to deny claims and fight them in court as oppose to paying them. Thoughts??

 

[Craigmri]

Jim,

File a complaint with your BBB. In addition why not try small claims court?

This confirms my opinion of BRP and not only will I never purchase anything BRP again, I will discourage anyone else who asks my opinion. There are quality issues with these boats and BRP now is resisting to stand behind their products.

Jim, what is the total estimate to get all your gelcoat repairs done?

Craig

 

[TVZ1965]

I agree with Craig File a BBB report, but first call Nancy and tell her you will be doing these. As she is the one that handles those issue, you can look it up on BBB web site she is listed as their point of contact. If there are no sign of impact to the gelcoat that how can it be due to impact?

 

[JThomasLambert]

Does a gel-coat-crack look like a series of hair-line cracks almost like a broken windshield after a rock chip? I noticed a couple of these on my swim-deck yesterday ('08 Challenger 180).

 

[Craigmri]

Flex

Yep.....The C180 swim deck on mine flex'd quite a bit...I wasn't surprised mine developed gelcoat cracks. Very frustrating and now Seadoo apparently is not repairing these if your out of the initial 1 year warranty. Even under the BEST warranty extensions they are now denying these claims. A shame really.

Craig

Does a gel-coat-crack look like a series of hair-line cracks almost like a broken windshield after a rock chip? I noticed a couple of these on my swim-deck yesterday ('08 Challenger 180).

 

[Dr Honda]

I know it sux... and I agree it should be taken care of... but if they fix the gel coat, it's just going to crack again. The problem... as Craig said... the glass underneath is too thin, and it's flexing. In their attempt to make the boats lighter... they have made them weak.

 

[Redbarronracing]

I feel your pain

OK, so my deny was a little less expensive...but about as frustrating.

Bought my '07 Challenger 180 in December '07. Had to wait until April to take it out. Once out, I noticed it was doing about 35-37 mph and 7400 rpm. Heard the urban legend about the 10 hour break in limiter (appears to not be true) and told my dealer at the 10 hour service it was running slow. The mechanic said that was the normal speed and rpm. I told him that was not what the web was saying and that if it was not a programming issue, this indicated a faulty supercharger. In July I drifted over a sandbar and sucked up half the lake bottom (ok, my fault, I pay), but had another dealer (JOA, now out of business) fix my drive and check the supercharger. They did not find anything, but they did not realize the boat was suppose to do 8100 rpm at close to 45 mph. I then did the year end service back at the dealer where I bought the boat and said "I think I have a supercharger problem, please fix it before I run out of warranty". They found no issue. Next spring, had friends out on the lake early in the season and developed a viberation and limped back in. Took it to the JOA dealer (now out of warranty) and nothing was wrong (they thought maybe a little debris got in the jet that fell out on the trailer). Had them check the supercharger and they did a clutch check. No problem, but the next 2 times on the lake I had a new sound and 8100 rpm at 45 mph. Cool. 3rd time out, back to the same low speed and rpm. Put up with it all summer until I found my ski locker full of water. Took it back to the original dealer who charged $75 to replace a fuse in the engine area. "Why did the fuse blow"? "They just do". "Check the supercharger". "There is too much play in the supercharger, it is defective". Great, after complaining a year and a half, you now figure out I was right. "It is out of warranty". "But it was doing it in warranty". "We will check with SeaDoo, but we wrote 'check boat for speed issue' and no word about supercharger". I called BRP and was told, "we will talk to the dealer and see if it appears to be a defect". Went to the dealer to find out what was happening and was told that BRP said "He had the opportunity to buy the extended warranty, too bad". Tried to call BRP again, but as Sikiguya said, might as well take the day off as they will not answer their phone. The owner of the dealership (Smith Powersports in Hayesville, NC) said he would call a "friend" at BRP and see if we could at least get some relief on the cost. I said fix it, I have no choose. So, I pick the boat up and have no relief on the cost...so out over $700 on something that should have been warranty.

OK, this is the end of the season and I do not get to check the boat. I have a trip from Atlanta to Crystal River, FL in March. The week before, I start the boat out of the water to make sure it will crank before towing 450 miles. I get a P0546 error. Call Smith Powersports and they "have to call BRP to find out what the code is". I do a google search and find the "short in the EGT sensor". I was told, "oh, it is OK, that is because you started it out of the water". I tow my 450 miles, put the boat in the water and 50 feet from the ramp I get "error code P0546". The next day I call Smith Powersports to see if they can talk me through the problems AND tell me why my bilge pump that they fixed by replacing the fuse is NOT working AND the ski locker is full of water. They tell me where the EGT sensor is located and suggest unplugging and replugging. As far as the bilge pump, I hit Walmart and buy a bilge pump that runs on D-cell batteries.

Now boating season is in full swing in Atlanta, my error P0546 has returned and if I put a fuse in for the bilge pump, it blows instantly. Although my confidence in their ability to fix it is a little shaky, I call Smith Powersports and am told that the only thing they can do is set me up an appointment for the middle or end of June and look at it ON MY DIME.

TVZ1965, I see you are just up the road. Do you know a decent place to get service? I am planning to spend tomorrow with a tube of dielectric grease and look for a couple of shorts or a bent pin.

As far as BRP....NEVER AGAIN. And I will tell everyone I can find to avoid them. Fortunely for BRP, I missed the Atlanta Boat Show this year. I had thought about hanging out at their booth and letting potential buyers know about my frustration.

 

[Redbarronracing]

I feel your pain

OK, so my deny was a little less expensive...but about as frustrating.

Bought my '07 Challenger 180 in December '07. Had to wait until April to take it out. Once out, I noticed it was doing about 35-37 mph and 7400 rpm. Heard the urban legend about the 10 hour break in limiter (appears to not be true) and told my dealer at the 10 hour service it was running slow. The mechanic said that was the normal speed and rpm. I told him that was not what the web was saying and that if it was not a programming issue, this indicated a faulty supercharger. In July I drifted over a sandbar and sucked up half the lake bottom (ok, my fault, I pay), but had another dealer (JOA, now out of business) fix my drive and check the supercharger. They did not find anything, but they did not realize the boat was suppose to do 8100 rpm at close to 45 mph. I then did the year end service back at the dealer where I bought the boat and said "I think I have a supercharger problem, please fix it before I run out of warranty". They found no issue. Next spring, had friends out on the lake early in the season and developed a viberation and limped back in. Took it to the JOA dealer (now out of warranty) and nothing was wrong (they thought maybe a little debris got in the jet that fell out on the trailer). Had them check the supercharger and they did a clutch check. No problem, but the next 2 times on the lake I had a new sound and 8100 rpm at 45 mph. Cool. 3rd time out, back to the same low speed and rpm. Put up with it all summer until I found my ski locker full of water. Took it back to the original dealer who charged $75 to replace a fuse in the engine area. "Why did the fuse blow"? "They just do". "Check the supercharger". "There is too much play in the supercharger, it is defective". Great, after complaining a year and a half, you now figure out I was right. "It is out of warranty". "But it was doing it in warranty". "We will check with SeaDoo, but we wrote 'check boat for speed issue' and no word about supercharger". I called BRP and was told, "we will talk to the dealer and see if it appears to be a defect". Went to the dealer to find out what was happening and was told that BRP said "He had the opportunity to buy the extended warranty, too bad". Tried to call BRP again, but as Sikiguya said, might as well take the day off as they will not answer their phone. The owner of the dealership (Smith Powersports in Hayesville, NC) said he would call a "friend" at BRP and see if we could at least get some relief on the cost. I said fix it, I have no choose. So, I pick the boat up and have no relief on the cost...so out over $700 on something that should have been warranty.

OK, this is the end of the season and I do not get to check the boat. I have a trip from Atlanta to Crystal River, FL in March. The week before, I start the boat out of the water to make sure it will crank before towing 450 miles. I get a P0546 error. Call Smith Powersports and they "have to call BRP to find out what the code is". I do a google search and find the "short in the EGT sensor". I was told, "oh, it is OK, that is because you started it out of the water". I tow my 450 miles, put the boat in the water and 50 feet from the ramp I get "error code P0546". The next day I call Smith Powersports to see if they can talk me through the problems AND tell me why my bilge pump that they fixed by replacing the fuse is NOT working AND the ski locker is full of water. They tell me where the EGT sensor is located and suggest unplugging and replugging. As far as the bilge pump, I hit Walmart and buy a bilge pump that runs on D-cell batteries.

Now boating season is in full swing in Atlanta, my error P0546 has returned and if I put a fuse in for the bilge pump, it blows instantly. Although my confidence in their ability to fix it is a little shaky, I call Smith Powersports and am told that the only thing they can do is set me up an appointment for the middle or end of June and look at it ON MY DIME.

TVZ1965, I see you are just up the road. Do you know a decent place to get service? I am planning to spend tomorrow with a tube of dielectric grease and look for a couple of shorts or a bent pin.

As far as BRP....NEVER AGAIN. And I will tell everyone I can find to avoid them. Fortunely for BRP, I missed the Atlanta Boat Show this year. I had thought about hanging out at their booth and letting potential buyers know about my frustration.