Boat cannot run fast

[Ador Raga]

I have the same problem with my Challenger 1997. And with what I read from this forum there is a great chance that the issue is from the Rev Limiter or the Neutral Switch.

My jetboat sounds a lot quieter than it used to but it can only run max at 10mph and revs at 3000.

Can you please tell me how to pull the throttle control apart to repair it?
Thanks a lot.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Control assembly....

This is a really simple item to work with.
On the top of the control assembly, there are 4 screws. Take them out. Then, under that white plate you just removed, you'll have 4 more screws....if there tight and you see a white colored powder (calcium looking deposits) around them, I'd spray them with WD-40 or better yet, PB blaster and let them set for a spell.
Then remove those 4 screws. Gently lift the assembly straight up. Being careful not to allow the linkages to go side to side until you've pulled it almost the entire way out. Now, looking at the assembly, you'll see a little toggle switch. It's the only electrical part on it. It's just a push button type switch. It's probably sticking.
You should be able to determine what to do from there. You may need to replace it. Or remove it and close the circuit. If you do that, remember you won't have any safty on the throttle. So if the throttle is open when you go to start and the boats in gear, it could throw you out.

 

[Ador Raga]

Thanks a lot.

I've been trying to open the assembly earlier, but I could not loosen one of the 4 screws. I sprayed it with WD40 hoping it would somehow ease up but it looked like the screw head is badly damaged.

This gets me excited knowing that I would be able to revive my toy and have fun in the water with my kids again the next available weekend.

Thanks a lot...

 

[seadoosnipe]

tapping....

Is it one of the screws that hold the plastic plate on or is it one of the screws that actually hold down the control unit? If it's the one that holds down the control unit, when you have the phillips head screw driver in it and trying to put pressure on it to turn it loose, gently tap on the head of the screwdriver with a hammer.

 

[Stefan]

you guys are right on the subject...
two days ago I was trying to get into that throttle control unit. The left one would not stay at the max open position, slipping back to the middle< but the 4 screws below the white plastic plate just wouldn't let go
I thought about wd-40 but now I know that's my only chance, I doubt that the other spray would be available here...

 

[seadoosnipe]

Electrolysis....

With these boats, there seems to be a weakness in the electroylsis, to the point that all the bolts get seized with this white powdery substance. Believe me, I just broke a bolt off in my rotary plate and one off in my exhaust manifold, that I have to deal with. For the same reason.
I did break off one of the bolts in my control handle when I had to take it out to repair the cable.
I ended up using an epoxy compond over that one screw that broke, setting it in place and attaching the other three screws. But I'd recommend that if you lose more than one, drill and tap to the next size over. And since I only found one zinc anode, I think I'm going to put a couple more on this year.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

make sure the fit of the screwdriver is very good the wrong size will leed to more problems. and like some else mentioned a hamer lightly tappen on top of a quality screwdriver while trying to turn screw is what I have to do on stubburn screws. those are some long screws

 

[kustomkarl]

One more thing to remember you have to make the rev limit switch work. Unplug it ( 2 wires)and the switch has small micro switch inside the assy. on the top is a white button that makes contact. It must spring up as the throttle is put into forward or reverse. You can't connect the two wires or it won't start and you'll get 4 beeps, as the MPEM (Multi Purpose Electronic Module) will think it is in gear and won't allow it to start. Repair the switch so it springs back and connect it back to the wires and reassemble it again. Use never-seize or even salt water proof grease on the threads of the screws that gave you so much trouble getting off. This way they will come out easier the next time you have to pull it apart.

I had the same trouble on my controller. I drilled them out to next size bigger and taped them all, an moved on.

Karl

 

[robin savell lloyd]

very good point karl on the bypass of switch, as safety feature will not alow it to start and could be a nightmare if it did.

 

[kustomkarl]

The MPEM would not allow it to start in gear as well as in anything higher than idle throttle. Put your doo in gear and you 'll hear 4 beeps.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

only reason i mentioned it was because louis thought you could bypass. now break it to him nicely.

 

[kustomkarl]

I think he was in a different direction, as when I had the problem when I first joined, we talked on the phone and discussed it together. But like most things you can't remember everything...that's what's great about being on a forum... we help each other out.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

true. we will have to let him slide on this one. lol :agree: :cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

I think it is Louis's turn to slide...no foul! He can't remember everything...just most things.

 

[Ador Raga]

Thanks for all the friendliest people on earth helping people out. I am now proud to be of SeaDoo owner because of you guys. I will drill the screw and and play with the Rev Switch on that assembly so I can have fun on the water. I will share with you my experience on this matter sometime.

 

[hfgreg]

Good luck Ador! We always like photos here so take some if you have time :cheers:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Switch....

Karl, I never opened this swich up, but from when you and I first met, I remember us going over this. I know that when you put this in gear, it closes the circuit, so that the mpem will sense that it is in gear and allow the motor to go over 3000 rpm. But if you remove the wires, the circuit is open. Will it not let the mpem since that the gear shift is in proper postion to allow the rpm increase?
From what I'm reading in your response, your saying that the switch has a micro chip in it as the lanyard, and you'd not be able to fool or "jumper" to test it?.........
If so, I'll be returning to the drawing board on this one. Because I was certain the button was driving a simple toggle switch thats only purpose was to open and close the circuit.......no "rom" chip or digital signal process contolled type part.
Be back in a little while on that one!..........

 

[robin savell lloyd]

The mpem does all thinking. the switch is a simple swtich. before you can get past revlimiter switch has to do both open and close. mpem realy does not think. it is programed. I could explain it in more detail if someone else does not. it just gives me a head ache. and yes it does make me have to think also louis. ps. I can be wrong

 

[seadoosnipe]

Dead man's switch....

Everyone must understand, I do not advocate by-passing any of the Sea-Doo's safety devices because they are there for a reason. By going around this neutral switch, you could accidently start the boat in gear and anyone standing, could be thrown out the back.
That being said, I have researched this switch and it is a simple "dead man's" switch. Which means it is two wires connected to two metallic devices, which are spring loaded. When the button is out, the circuit is open. When the button is in, the circuit is closed. This "dead mans'" switched is easily by-passed by removing the two wires. Put them together, and the engine is limited because the rev limiter in the mpem is grounded. With the button out, or the circuit open, the limiter is not grounded, and ready for higher rpm. In the wiring diagraphm, this is easily explained. If it were part of some encrypted circuit, then you'd see designation labeled, CLE on the diagraphm.
Now, if I'm wrong, then I'm open for debate. The above post that were made, where it appears that I shot from the hip are your opinions and I respect that. But as KustomKarl and you Robin, both know, I do a lot of reading, a lot or research and if it involves the 787, I even go to the shop where that spare engine is and try to anaylize it to come to some kind of educated guess. I'm no trained Sea-Doo mechanic and I'm not right on 100% of the things I post. I know that and I"m not so arrogant about my abilities that I"d try and pretend I'm perfect. I do forget and I do make mistakes, just like everyone else. Which for just a moment, I'd give credit to a forum member, who I thought was the smartest man in this forum with the ability to fix anything, caught me doing advise to make repairs to a carb, when the ski was fuel injected. From that day forward, his responses kept me on my toes. His name was Don, with "Wheels and Waves". Here is a copy of the link to one of my blunders (blooper) http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=771 It was funny, he's a very smart man. When I saw him give advice, I learned to read what he had to say. And I refer to his post from time to time when others come in with a similar problem.
But if I were the person that had this problem, looking for an answer, I'd try things that I could, that wouldn't endanger operation, just to solve my problem. That's what I do. The only special tool I've ever had to buy was the impeller removal tool. Karl, I know you do the same thing.
Please, look at the wiring diagraphm for yourself. This is a no brainer, that this switch is a standard "on-off" switch, or as some refer to, a dead mans switch.
Sorry for the long post, but when a debate has been opened on something I'm doing, which I have already investigated, it leaves the door wide open for me to respond in debate.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

This is a really simple item to work with.
On the top of the control assembly, there are 4 screws. Take them out. Then, under that white plate you just removed, you'll have 4 more screws....if there tight and you see a white colored powder (calcium looking deposits) around them, I'd spray them with WD-40 or better yet, PB blaster and let them set for a spell.
Then remove those 4 screws. Gently lift the assembly straight up. Being careful not to allow the linkages to go side to side until you've pulled it almost the entire way out. Now, looking at the assembly, you'll see a little toggle switch. It's the only electrical part on it. It's just a push button type switch. It's probably sticking.
You should be able to determine what to do from there. You may need to replace it. Or remove it and close the circuit. If you do that, remember you won't have any safty on the throttle. So if the throttle is open when you go to start and the boats in gear, it could throw you out.

this is what I thought you were off on Louis, as Karl pointed out that the seadoo can not throw you out because it is not going to start in that bypass position. and in other bypass posistion will start but will only give you 3000 rpm's. In your last post you say switch has a positive wire going to rev limiter? my book only shows that the switch suplies a ground when closed to micro controller mine is older though 1995 so may not apply. ps. by the way we all respect you. just making sure we all get it right.:cheers:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Respect....

I know that all respect each other in this forum Robin, if that's how it came out, sorry, that wasn't my intention.
Your book my be a bit old, mine doesn't show it like that.
With the 12 volt switch, the ground is to earth, the other wire is a make or break wire in a standard on/off switch. On, then you get 3000 rpm. If the switch was eliminated, then that would be the same as the wire touching ground. Pull the wire off ground, or open the switch, then the wire is open, or not grounded. Then the mpem will sense that signal and release the rev limiter.
My point was made mostly that from what I read, it seems that others have posted that this is a "smart" switch to the mpem, like the DESS post and has got to be there to work. It doesn't. I could eleminate mine completly and have no problems with my boats engine maintaining top rpm.........that was the only point I was trying to make....

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I know that all respect each other in this forum Robin, if that's how it came out, sorry, that wasn't my intention.
Your book my be a bit old, mine doesn't show it like that.
With the 12 volt switch, the ground is to earth, the other wire is a make or break wire in a standard on/off switch. On, then you get 3000 rpm. If the switch was eliminated, then that would be the same as the wire touching ground. Pull the wire off ground, or open the switch, then the wire is open, or not grounded. Then the mpem will sense that signal and release the rev limiter.
My point was made mostly that from what I read, it seems that others have posted that this is a "smart" switch to the mpem, like the DESS post and has got to be there to work. It doesn't. I could eleminate mine completly and have no problems with my boats engine maintaining top rpm.........that was the only point I was trying to make....

I believe i am with you on every thing you said. but the last part about bypassing switch in your boat. as we both know switch has to do with rpm;s, but also has to do with the boat starting in gear you can not have both without switch max rpm's and ability to start. but I can be wrong may be Karl will be able to clue us in. you know I should have been born in the show me state.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Drawings...

Robin, I know your not a premium member, but I don't know if you have access to the electrical drawings. I understand what your trying to say, but it is ascew just a little.
There is one wire that leads from the mpem to that neutral switch. The reason there are two coming out, is because of the break in the connection. If you can imagine the wire coming out of the mpem going straight to earth, then there would be a rev limit of 3000 rpm. Now, if you break that one wire from ground, there is no ground to earh and the mpem's rpm limiter will get the signal that it's in neutral and is ready to procede with full rpm.
I"m going to see if I can do a paint drawing on this, from what the electrial drawing is, so that it may be a bit simplier to understand........
O.K., Robin, I was able to upload a drawing of that switch. If you'll notice the wire on the bottom is going to ground, the wire at the top is going to the mpem. This is just like the switch on a light bulb. The switch is open, the revs are unlimited. Which would mean, the two wires or the wire to the switch to the button is open and free. When that switch is closed, it is making contact to ground, telling the mpem to limit rpm. There is no smart switch that will stop the motor from running. Karl is correct, in that if the circuit is in the wrong position, then the mpem will pick up that it's in gear and give 4 beeps. But that's because the switch is closed in ground. Once it's open, it's free and unlimited. I hope the attached drawing is a big help. Oh, if I attach the switch from the boats blower, which is a simple, dead man's switch, they are identical. If you look at any switch that needs to communicate with the mpem before the mpem will release it for a start, it has a circle around it with letters, like COM or ROM......
I hope this solves some of the confusion.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

that is exactly how I see it also. and in my book

 

[seadoosnipe]

......cool!

I don't know why that was so hard to explain. I just didnt' want our members to think that they have to have special tools to do all this trouble shooting, when in fact, they just need to employ a little logic and common sense.............
Thanks for the "keeping me on my toes" though.