Blew a Cylinder!

[Mooze]

Well, It happened...

I took the boat out after the rebuild of the number two eng, 96 speedster, and the aft cyl lost compression... DO'H! Come to find out it was just the o-ring! Good, Whew, crisis adverted! Well i bought two new o-rings put 'em in and was out on water next day... Both eng's humming along.... I say to my friend, "Is both weep holes spitting water?" Of course only one was! SHUT DOWN! SHUT DOWN! Open the eng cover, OMG! water every where! What happened? DOUBLE DO'H, facepalm, and every other anecdote you can think of! I forgot to tighten the water input line to the head!

SO POOF goes the number 2 eng fwd cylinder no compression!

So question! the eng is nowhere near perfect... One cylinder has rings fried into the piston! The jug has scared walls... DO I order a whole top end and make it all so perfect? Or do I try to clean up / replace piston and rings in the bad cylinder?!? Also, is SBT's 475$ top end kit worth it or no?


Thats my story and I'm Sticking to it!

This video is from the the first run, and this is where I blew the cylinder O-ring out! I fixed it and then I blew the cylinder! bOOOOOO!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeLgKfPpDy0

 

[Dr Honda]

If you want it to last... do it right. Bore it, and new pistons.

 

[Mooze]

I think the eng has been bored once before i bought it.. The piston has a .25 on the head of it.. Is it still bore-able? Who would you recommend to do it? Any body that people like to use?

Thanks...

 

[Guest_User]

IMHO, you should thoroughly check out the bottom end before doing just a top end... if you melted anything or broke anything it went thru the bottom end to get out... in this case, it just might be cheaper to exchange the engine... or rebuild that one... all depends on what you find... most bottom ends don`t last long with a fresh topper...

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Go for remanufactured, IMO Knock a hole through the case with a broken rod and you'll have to start over anyway, why not do it right and get a warranty while you're at it?

Sometimes necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[Mooze]

I agree as far as getting a whole new engine but it's my understanding the lower end had been replaced just before I bought the boat.. for what ever reason the previous owner had to replace the bottom end.. I believe it has low hours.. I'm going to call around Monday and see what options I have. If its not crazy diff in price then maybe ill just order a new reman engine. Thanks to all of you for the help and opinions.

 

[Mooze]

Anybody ever use fullbore for their top end kit?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Why not, sounds like a fun project. Machining cylinders isn't exactly rocket science, fullbore should be capable of that!

 

[howie099]

I have used Fullbore for cylinder boring and topend kits. He has done a Polaris Fuji, Yamaha GP1200, and Yamaha Blaster for me all with good results. I did choose the premium piston kits. SES has rebuilt my 657x for GTX still hooking it up. The topend kits from both places are around $300. I would guess the person installed a crank since the RV seals were leaking pretty bad on that engine. On an engine that old should of just did the whole thing but I am sure they did just what they needed to sell the boat and pass the buck.

 

[Mooze]

Yeah they probably did. The bottom end looks to be in good shape. I'm assuming if it was leaking I would see oil in my lower end where the piston rods attach to the crankshaft?

Also, called SES they are not accepting top end kits right now. Too much full engine work going on. Fullbore says about 2 weeks from my door back. SBT can get it here in 3 days but it's like 200 dollars more! Whew, stoopid water lines

I probably go with fullbore. I have vacation coming up so I wont be home any ways!

Once again thanks to all of you for your input!

 

[howie099]

SES was a little long I sent my engine the first week of April and took about 8 weeks to get back. If you have the time why not save the $200. You will more than likely get better pistons from Fullbore. I think you get just stock from SBT.

 

[Mooze]

SES was a little long I sent my engine the first week of April and took about 8 weeks to get back. If you have the time why not save the $200. You will more than likely get better pistons from Fullbore. I think you get just stock from SBT.

Yeah I have the time.. I think I'll be sending them out tomorrow with special instructions to not send them back until after I get back from vacation. That way if they happen to get done early they are not sitting on my front steps Fullbore also mentioned something about the MOLLY coated pistons for 10 dollars more.. Anybody know anything about that..

 

[howie099]

The molly coating heps with lower friciton and better heat transfer.

 

[Mooze]

Paid and shipped out cylinders today! This is will make this engine like new. The readings were on the low side. Now they better be right up where they should be! :thumbsup:

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Were you able to measure the bore? Did they say how much they can bore, or maybe they have another casting for substitution?

At least they can machine the bore size to the piston, so it'll be done correctly.

 

[Mooze]

No i didn't measure before, I don't required tools to do so.. They can bore out another 3 sizes on my jugs.. They are currently already 1 size over standard! If not, then I'm sure they will call and tell me it is now a re-sleeve instead of a bore.

Either way the only downside to using them so far, which for me isn't all that bad, is the turn around time. After they receive the cylinders it's going to be at least 10 days they said. Now for me that isn't a big deal because i have a vacation coming up. But for some with shipping times that could be 2 - 3 weeks of boat downtime...

I'll be sure to let you know how it all comes out once i get them back...

 

[howie099]

I have sent cylinders in off to them in the off-season and the time frame has been about the same. Even with SBT would take about 3 days plus some extra shipping + $200.

 

[Mooze]

Quick question.. I just got my jugs back from full bore.. .Reading through the documentation they sent it says to wash cylinders before installation.. What exactly does "wash" mean? Of course I didn't get them utnil after 5 so full bore is closed for the weekend! Now I have no way of asking them.. Hopefully one of you have the knowledge

Also, according to the manual you're suppose to add Loctite 515 (permetex 51531) to the cylinder o-ring groove
"Apply Loctite 515 Gasket Eliminator (P / N 293
800 007) in cylinder sleeve O-ring groove."
At my local dealer they said don't do it.. Any one else have an opinion on this?

Thanks again

 

[griz400]

any engine that you bore out and rebuild, seadoo, car, etc, you always blow it out with compressed air first, then wash cylinders with a bucket of hot soapy water -- thoroughly -- then dry it off, then blow it out with compressed air, then take a clean shop rag, soak it down with the oil that you are using, wipe it all off with a generous amount of oil and leave it that way till you put it all together .....

 

[Mooze]

any engine that you bore out and rebuild, seadoo, car, etc, you always blow it out with compressed air first, then wash cylinders with a bucket of hot soapy water -- thoroughly -- then dry it off, then blow it out with compressed air, then take a clean shop rag, soak it down with the oil that you are using, wipe it all off with a generous amount of oil and leave it that way till you put it all together .....

Awesome thanks.. BTW nice signature!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Always thoroughly wash cylinder walls inside with hot soapy water after honing to remove as much abrasive grit as possible remaining from the honing process. Then towel dry and re-oil immediately to stop from rusting. ie: Hot water and soap (liquid hand/dish soap like for the kitchen sink).

Use sturdy white paper towel soaked in oil to check for honing grit. White honing grit may not show on paper towel, machine shop honing stone(s) USUALLY isn't white. Clean cylinder anyway, regardless. Grit is hard to see and cannot be removed by any other method (this is best method I know of).

If O-Ring is proper diameter and o-ring grove isn't gouged or rough, then no sealer might be okay, I would not argue this, and follow shop manual.

I'm surprised machine shop didn't remove the grit, don't allow water to remaing on cylinder wall any longer than is necessary, oil them to avoid rusting.

 

[Mooze]

Always thoroughly wash cylinder walls inside with hot soapy water after honing to remove as much abrasive grit as possible remaining from the honing process. Then towel dry and re-oil immediately to stop from rusting. ie: Hot water and soap (liquid hand/dish soap like for the kitchen sink).

Use sturdy white paper towel soaked in oil to check for honing grit.

I'm surprised machine shop didn't remove the grit, don't allow water to remaing on cylinder wall any longer than is necessary, oil them to avoid rusting.

To be honest the walls and every thing seem very clean... and lightly oiled.. That's why I was a tad thrown.. I don't have a problem with giving them a bath and re-oiling later today when i start reassembly..

You haven't had any experience with the loctite stuff for the head have you? I was reading that 515 has been replaced with 518 which is same as permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket maker.. I'd do what the manual says if it wasn't for my local shop telling me otherwise. But I wouldn't mind a second opinion maybe I google a couple shops and call and ask...

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"walls and every thing seem very clean"

It's difficult to see or feel honing grit, clean them anyway unless you already cleaned them HOT water and soap will wash away grit, rub with clean towel(s)

I added a bit about o-ring sealer, basically I think it's good to use.

 

[Mooze]

WoW, those walls will seem to rust instantly... after washing them i cleaned them and the white rag turned a rust color. Any who, the jugs are on the top half is on..I used the 51813 permatex.. Same stuff you use for the jet drive seals and what not.. Ill give it a day to cure and test it all.. Then if all goes well and weather is nice.. Ill take it out to the water for the break in... the pistons and jugs look a bit sexy i feel a bit dirty about how much i thought they looked good! hahaa...

 

[Mooze]

Success! Took her out for the first run today! About 40 mins today of 3/4 throttle starting and stopping... She ran like a champ! another hour or so and Ill feel ready to give her all shes got! Letting those new pistons work their way in! ... Thanks to those who gave me direction!