At My Wits End...It's Me Again.... 1996 GTI Sea Doo.....

[Water Horse IV]

Well so much for positive thinking... I promise just a little history just in case anyone else has used this shop (Leitchfield, KY). I'd rather not mention the shop name, they are in possession of my Sea Doo. They have given their word if they cannot fix it the 4th time I will get my $1002.00 back. (reason being: Original problem has never been fixed and they created a huge problem whereas my Sea Doo now take on lots of water after each shop visit)

1. First Shop Visit: Carburetor Rebuild because Sea Doo was bogging down.

2. Second Shop Visit (Sea Doo Still Bogging Down. Wear Ring Replacement, Impeller Replacement and Housing Unit Replacement (Wear Ring was a must)

3. Third Shop Visit: Sea Doo Ran for under 5 minutes immediately bogging down. I took the Seat off to find water 1/2 way up on my battery including the Styrofoam from the nose and tail of my Sea Doo (I'm extremely mad. I now have a water intake issue that never existed and the original problem has not been fixed. Not to mention I'm up to $1002.00 in paid repair bills)

3. Forth Shop Visit: Picked it up on Friday (two days ago). I insisted on a test run before they called me for pick up. I was optimistic when the shop owner told me he took it out for 30-45 minutes and it ran like a new Sea Doo. TO HIS CREDIT AND AFTER $1002.00 from previous unsuccessful shop visits, THE OWNER DID NOT CHARGE ME. I shook his hand and we parted ways. He apologized saying he felt really bad. I WAS CONFIDENT BUT AFTER 3 PREVIOUS SHOP VISITS I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK. (Owner said they tightened some things on Drive Shaft whereas the water could have been coming in. And, he added a plate around the plug. KEEP IN MIND MY SEA DOO NEVER HAD A WATER ISSUE.

LAUNCHED SEA DOO.... RAN LIKE NEW FOR TEN MINUTES PERFECT. IMMEDIATELY BOGGED DOWN. SAME OLE STORY.. TOOK THE SEAT OFF WITH LOTS OF WATER INSIDE. I WAS AT THE DOCK DECIDED TO SEE IF I COULD SCOOP THE WATER OUT.. I SCOOPED WATER OUT FOR TWENTY MINUTES AND THE WATER LEVEL NEVER CHANGED. (I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS BUT PERHAPS IT'S A LEAK THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE IT RUNNING????) I WAS SO PI__SED OFF. LIKE HELL THEY TOOK IT OUT FOR 30-45 MINUTES.

THE NEXT MORNING SEA DOO WAS DROPPED OFF. APOLOGY APOLOGY APOLOGY... SHOP CALLED BACK 3 HOURS LATER.. ANOTHER " IT'S FIXED THE LEAK WAS BY THE PLUG" (I DIDN'T BUY IT). LAUNCED THE SEA DOO ONLY TO FIND THE SAME FLIPIN PROBLEM. OH AND DID I MENTION THEY TOOK IT FOR A TEST DRIVE ON SAT. SAYING THEY ROAD IT WITH THE SEAT OFF AND NO MORE WATER... THEY ACTUALLY CAME TO OUR PLACE, PICKED THE SEA DOO UP, TOLD ME THEY WERE GOING TO RE-DO EVERYTHING, FIX IT AT NO CHARGE (YOU THINK) AND IF THEY COULD FIX IT I WOULD GET ALL MY MONEY BACK.

HAS ANYONE HEARD OF SUCH A STORY. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW THIS PLACE LOOKS REPUTABLE, THEY ARE ALSO DEALERS WHO SELL NICE 4 WHEELERS AND THERE IS AN ALLEDGED PWC MECHANIC ON THE PRMISES. I HAVER ZERO FAITH MY SEA DOO WILL BE FIXED. AT THIS POINT I HOPE THEY KEEP THEIR WORD REGARDING MY REFUND. I WILL DEFINITELY NEED ANOTHER SHOP OR SOMEONE (LOUDOO) WHO WANTS TO PROPERLY FIX MY SEA DOO. KEEP IN MIND THE ENGINE HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM. AND, LUCKILY I HAVE ALWAYS CAUGHT THE WATER SITUATION SPARING ANY SERIOUS DAMAGE. SO, IT'S NOT AN ENGINE PROBLEM. SHOP SAYS IT'S NOT A FUEL LINE ISSUE OR THE CARB FILTERS WOULD HAVE BEEN DIRTY.

AT MY WITS END. AND, DID I SAY (AGAIN) THEY ARE EXTREMELY NICE. I JUST DON'T THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING.

 

[Water Horse IV]

two issues.. where the heck is the water coming from....

and

I know one of the cylinoids (I think that's what it is called) is bad on the carburetor. A nice man at the dock (in the dark on Friday night)tested the plugs by switching them out telling me that much. Compression is awesome on engine (nice man tested that too). I was told it's not a fuel line issue or the filters on carburetor would be bad (per shop owner). And, for the short time the Sea Doo was docked it didn't seem to keep taking water on, although I couldn't get the water line to decrease as I scooped water out???

I'm going to need some help finding a reputable place to take my Sea Doo or someone I can trust to fix my Sea Doo. It's worth fixing. And, I don't mind paying for quality work.

 

[Bills86e]

Obtain a Shop manual and read it. The exhaust pipe welch plugs internally corrode then spray out into the compartment. Cylinder drain line can come off, its hard to see under the exhaust. The drive carbone ring can leak. turf rivets can leak. Sponsons can leak. Syphon system can be faulty and leak into the ski.
Suggest you tie your ski to the trailor, and launch/back it in with seat off, start the motor and look for leaks while its running. Its so easy. Find the manual at forum begining STICKY. Get the 1996 GTI free D/L.
Save it to your computer desktop.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...adoopwc&a=272&b=9&c=0&d=-COOLING-SYSTEM-(717)

As far as engine, determine if its the fuel delivery, or carb problem by remove ing airbox and arrestor, remove fuel supply and fuel return lines.
Put a 12" clear lines on carb(s) return to tank nipple, put the return clear line in a catch jar. Put Pre-mix into a small squirt bottle, then
a put on the supply nipple 24" of clear line, hold up high and squirt pre-mix fuel in til filled. Start the engine. It should drink the fuel and run normally. If not, the carbs need rebuilt by a certified PWC tech. If it does run great, then something is wrong with the fuel circulatory. But doing as suggested, you have by-passed that. Fuel bafel lines can be attached wrong, lines may be letting in air at connections, fuel valvecan be stopped up, water filter/separator may be cross-threaded or the square 0-ring seal may be bad. Gasoline may be oxidated/bad.Got BR8ES *plugs gapped .021? Compare your plugs readings to the spark plug chart.
Post your results.

Bills86e

 

[OldSchool]

Im not going to tell you what to do, but I take special interest in the very machine you own. It is my favorite 3 seater and my favorite to work on out of all SD watercraft. It had the highest HP for that hull and it didnt have all the goodies the 96 GTx did to fail. It was a simple machine that did it all and held its own at around 51mph while being able to climb on the side of it.

IF I WERE IN YOUR POSITION.

You need to verify all the cooling hoses are connected properly and not leaking. You need to make sure your bailing hoses are pinned up high and that the two o-rings between pump and nozzle are present.

Then, with drain plug in and everything sealed, you need to tip your machine bow up on the trailer at a high angle and add water until the stern is submerged in water and look for any areas water can escape. No leaks?

Then, with the machine strapped to a trailer, go to a friendly launch and back the machine in so that the pump and intake grate are fully in the water with the seat off.

Start the machine and let it idle, look for the tell tale in the rear to be pissing and check the bilge for any water leaks. Slowly increase the idle and try to be deep enough not to suck a rock. Dont go full throttle, just enough to put a load on it and find your problem.

There is no point tuning a ski that leaks like that.

With the PTO cover off, also make sure no leaks occur at the shaft bearing.

If you can find a dealer with a test tank, use them. It was the best tool we ever had at our shop. Also, the best part of being a PWC tech was test riding boats, get them to go with you and prove it doesn't leak after both of you ride it.

There are only a few things that can cause that fast of a leak. Most of them are Pump/Cooling system related if there isn't a gaping hull leak somewhere.





Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

[OldSchool]

Obtain a Shop manual and read it. The exhaust pipe welch plugs internally corrode then spray out into the compartment. Cylinder drain line can come off, its hard to see under the exhaust. The drive carbone ring can leak. turf rivets can leak. Sponsons can leak. Syphon system can be faulty and leak into the ski.
Suggest you tie your ski to the trailor, and launch/back it in with seat off, start the motor and look for leaks while its running. Its so easy.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...adoopwc&a=272&b=9&c=0&d=-COOLING-SYSTEM-(717)

As far as engine, determine if its the fuel delivery, or carb problem by remove ing airbox and arrestor, remove fuel supply and fuel return lines.
Put a 12" clear lines on carb(s) return to tank nipple, put the return clear line in a catch jar. Put Pre-mix into a small squirt bottle, then
a put on the supply nipple 24" of clear line, hold up high and squirt pre-mix fuel in til filled. Start the engine. It should drink the fuel and run normally. If not, the carbs need rebuilt by a certified PWC tech. If it does run great, then something is wrong with the fuel circulatory. But doing as suggested, you have by-passed that. Fuel bafel lines can be attached wrong, lines may be letting in air at connections, fuel valvecan be stopped up, water filter/separator may be cross-threaded or the square 0-ring seal may be bad. Gasoline may be oxidated/bad.Got BR8ES *plugs gapped .021?
Post your results.

Bills86e

Lol Bill.. Great minds think alike.

OP: the drain line you cant see is a likely candidate. It isnt held on in the "best" manner if anyone ever yanked on it or caught it. It is a 12mm clear line held on by a zip tie in most cases. It is also the first line I connect when installing an engine because I can tip the engine and actually SEE it properly connected.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

[- BiRkS_]

I would put money on the bailers not being tied up/and or the carbon seal not being installed correctly.

As for the bogging down, possibly water getting into electronics and causing intermittent/no spark or carb issues. Does it still have the grey fuel lines? Do as Bill suggested with the carbs (basically isolating the fuel system to just the carbs and narrowing your search) I sometimes use a 5L/1 gal gas container and run my lines from that in the foot well (fits perfectly) You can even go to a hardware store and get brass fittings and mount them in the yellow end cap to avoid water contamination/open fuel vapours (I work on lots of small engines, set up works great) Or even a small gas tank from a Tecumseh lawn mower will work.

 

[Water Horse IV]

bills86e: I appreciate your response. I mean no disrespect. Without getting too personal. I'm a mom with teenagers. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. I'm no stranger to hauling horses or trailering boats and/or my inoperable Sea Doo. However, simply put I don't have time to fix the insides of my Sea Doo. It's not one of those cases of "if you want it running your will learn to fix it". I'm at my wits end not knowing what else to do. I know this Sea Doo is worth fixing. I need a reputable mechanic/shop or someone who would like to make some extra money to properly fix mine. I truly believe these (current shop where my Sea Doo is) guys want to help however are ill equipped to know what they are doing. I'm at the point where I insist on paying for the new parts they have installed (and, hope to hell they were/are new) and find someone in my area that can help. It's so frustrating that it's hard to find a shop that has a good reputation. I've heard of another shop in Louisville located. However, I heard to steer clear of that shop too. This is way I thought I picked a good one located in the same exact area as Nolin Lake. Perhaps I'm searching for something that doesn't exist. Thank you !

 

[- BiRkS_]

The reason most of us are on this forum is because of bad experiences, and now we pool our knowledge together to help each other out! We are very fortunate to have a couple real mechanics on the forum, and lots of capable DIY'ers. I myself worked at 2 dealerships (mercury and BRP/evinrude). Sometimes the best mechanic can be yourself, if you are willing to learn how the machine works and how to fix it. Luckily, most of the maintenance/repair can be done WITHOUT special tools, or ones cheap/easy to make. I never take anything to a dealer/shop. Only thing i would ever consider sending out is a modern automatic transmission! Not willing to gamble on that!

Download your manual here and read up on the different systems and how they work. They become quite simple once you understand them. http://www.seadoomanuals DOT net/

 

[Water Horse IV]

Birks and Old School and Bills86e: Please see my post above. I appreciate your help. And, I promise is there were enough hours in the day I would start reading and dig in. I simply don't have any extra time with work and teenagers. I wish the wonderful people like yourself who have offered help lived in my vicinity. I have been the most respectful person throughout this ordeal other than dropping the "F" bomb and then apologizing. I am crossing my fingers I will hear of a reputable mechanic in my area. And, please keep in mind I've been patient with these folks. I understand Sea Doo's can be fixed by the process of elimination.

As for the launch from the trailer. I did this Friday night in the dark with two strangers who owned Sea Doo/Jet Ski's helping me. We put my GTI in Neutral back half way in. We left the water in the hull to see if we could see where it was coming from. The end result/vote was the accordian at the middle under grey flimsy cover at the mid point on drive shaft (at the female/male connection). The shop the next day said not it's normal to have water come in when it's wiggled? I got under hull and inspected as much as I could seeing no damage to hull. ANd, as far as the plate behind the plug (shop owners diagnosis). I thought that made no sense with the Sea Doo going forward when running would not be intaking water from the back end at the plug. Thanks Fellas. I've tried to pass along suggestions from the forum without insulting these guys. It must go in one ear and out the other. After pick up Five, I will be reaching out for LouDoo unless he takes cover.

 

[Water Horse IV]

Thanks again Bills86e. I have literally sent your suggestions to the shop in Leitchfield, KY. I did not use your name. I copied and pasted your instructions/suggestions having no faith in their work product. There is no way they have been test driving my Sea Doo telling me everythings normal (now on two occassions) only to launch myself (on last two occassions) to find immediate bogging after 2/3 minutes and immediate water half way up my battery from head to toe on Sea Doo. I will obtain a manuel and start getting to know my Sea Doo. For what it's worth I have taken baby steps already familiar with jump box, changing spare tire if need be, trickle battery, deposit on temperature controlled storage for winter (if I ever get my Sea Doo fixed before Winter), Fixing the discolored Seat.

I'm still confident my Sea Doo is worth all the headache. Too bad you fellas are not in my neck of the woods. I'm glad to pay someone who really knows what they are doing. I had to point out by switching the plugs that one sylinder was not working on Carb. Isn't that pretty basic mechanics? Thanks again.

 

[Water Horse IV]

Thank you BiRkS! I will order a manuel and try to get acquainted. I'm behind the eight ball being a woman who doesn't know engine/mechanics language when trying to follow suggestions. Have you been in a room full of woman discussing make up and fashion trends finding yourself lost. Well that's kind of how I feel when the engine talk on the forum is being discussed. I can follow directions by looking under the "widget" unfortunately I don't know what the first widget looks like to find the second mentioned "widget". If a tutorial class was offered hands on, I would be the first to sign up for some hands on training.

 

[Water Horse IV]

Thank you old school. I really appreciate your time to help. And, I am slowly learning more and more about my Sea Doo. We did the test on the launch. A couple of fellas aproached to help with flashlights (it was already dark). They didn't see anything immediately but noticed when they pushed on the accordian in the mid section of the drive shaft water was coming in. The next day this was mentioned when the shop owner actually came to pick up my Sea Doo. I relayed this information to him saying shouldn't this spinning piece at the drive shaft and the male piece fit more securely toether with no gap explaing what happend at ramp when we applied a little pressure to accordian cover. He said that's normal to see water movement when pressure is applied to the the accordian. Like I said, I have no faith that anything is going to change with these guys. My next fear is they will mess something else up leaving me with 3 problems when initially it was a carburetor problem. Too bad nobody knows of anyone in my vicinity.

On that note, I did talk to a very nice man named Kevin that owns a marine shop. He is a mechanic. He has a tank on his premises but no longer works on Jet Ski's/ Sea Doo's. For some reason after I was finished talking to him, he agreed to help me if these guys cannot get the job done. So, I guess it's a start? I wanted to double check before I take it to him just in case I'm missing someone in the area that specifically works on Sea Doo's and has a good reputation.

Thanks for your help. It is truly appreciated.

 

[RyanB72]

The end result/vote was the accordian at the middle under grey flimsy cover at the mid point on drive shaft (at the female/male connection). The shop the next day said not it's normal to have water come in when it's wiggled? I got under hull and inspected as much as I could seeing no damage to hull.

I also had this problem. the boot was only barely pushing the carbon seal up against the flange. Water would easilly come in with a slight touch. What I found was the previous owner had remove the rubber stopper that is inside the PTO and keeps the driveshaft from moving back and forth a bunch.

Even when correctly positioned, if you pull back on the boot while the ski is in the water you will get water coming in. That should be expected. The boot should hold the seal up against the flange with enough force to keep water intrusion from happening as well as air intrusion into the pump area when under power.

 

[bell99man]

Yep, wish you were closer. That has to be maintenance related as in something they took off and put back on during your first visit. I agree with the idea of them meeting you at the launch to prove it is fixed. Good luck,

Kevin (not the shop guy)

 

[Water Horse IV]

Thanks Bell99man! I'm laughing at your little banging head saying "I should have joined the forum before buying". And, yes I should have. I probably would have bought one from someone on this site.

I have no faith in this shop. It's been a crazy ordeal. They tell me after each shop visit it's fixed and it's not. To give them the benefit of the doubt. I asked for launches after shop visit 3 and 4 before they called me to verify problem solved. Two launches later I was told it's ready they rode it and it runs like a new Sea Doo and NO LEAKS. On both occassions I found the original problem of bogging and of course the water problem they've caused. I'm sure when the housing unit, impellor and wear ring was installed something was not put back together or sealed properly. My neighbor found a cylinder that is not working on the carburetor. He actually pointed this out to the shop owner (shop owner is not mechanic). These guys have been super respectful along the way. But, unfortunately I don't believe much of what they say anymore. And, I dont' believe they took it out for a test drive otherwise they would have seen the water filling up in matter of minutes.

I'll be in shock if they are able to fix it. I have read and compiled everyone's advice (mentioning no names) and sending a very nice respectful suggestion list to the shop owner. I've asked him to look at my letter to make sure all of the following has been checked.

If my Sea Doo is fixed this Friday (not counting on it), the guys at Sea Doo Forum will have played a part. I'll keep everyone posted who cares to hear the ending. woman are a little more wordy than men. So, I'm sure I've ran a few forum members off who don't have time to read my crazy saga. Hell at one point I wanted to give the shop number to anyone who would attempt to call the shop and talk to the mechanic. I would have even paid the caller just to get my Sea Doo on the water.

Thanks again!

 

[wabbit1211]

Provided it only takes on water while running and in the water, then you have a cooling system leak. Shouldn't be all that hard to find. If they are PWC mechanics. Or simple for anyone with a lick of common sense.

 

[Water Horse IV]

I couldn't agree more. I did the water test keeping it on the trailer with back of Sea doo in the water. It was dark and hard to see what was going on with my cell phone flashlight. My common sense radar went off a long time ago. I've stuck around this long because of the 1002.00 spent for nothing in return. And, there was a little part of me thinking that maybe, just maybe something wasn't sealed properly when they put the housing unit, wear ring and impellor back together.

Thanks for your comments. Very frustrating Summer.

P.S. I guess I should say I did get a new wear ring, housing unit and impellor to be completely fair.