A simple oil question

[jimmaki]

I promise, this is not an attempt to start an "which oil is best" debate.

When I was young and stupid and bought my 1998 SPX new, the dealer recommnded and threw in two gallons of XPS mineral oil free. ( hey, that's SPX backwards ) I don't know if full synthetic was even available back then. Anywho, since the engine didn't blow up, that's what I continued to use. What did I know? I was young and stupid.

OK, now that I'm old and still stupid, but reading a lot of threads here, it appears I should be running XPS full synthetic in my 787 RAVE engine. My take is the main advantage is it keeps the RAVEs cleaner longer.

So here's the question. If I have specifically been using BRP XPS mineral oil and want to change specifically to BRP XPS synthetic oil am I going to get congealed gunk like I saw in one message here where they cut open the oil filter and it was full of black jello ... if I don't drain the rotary shaft oil, the oil tank, all the oil lines, the oil injector pump, the injector lines and prime all the lines and the pump. jeeeze. Does BRP really sell two oils under the same name but in mineral and synthetic formulations that can't ever touch each other without ruining your engine? I'm not asking for a cheaper alternative or if AmsOil is better than Mercury oil or anything like that. Allz I want to know is if BRP XPS mineral and BRP XPS synthetic can mix without causing a nuclear reaction that will melt my engine and eat a hole in the earth clear down to China.

If I have to change oil line what are they? They appear clear. All I have is the left over black FI fuel line from the fuel system referb. What sizes do I need and where can I get it?

 

[bajaman123]

I've done it, but backwards...
Decided to use synthetic in my '97 GTI so I'm not buying two different oils all the time. No problems. I can't imagine the 787 engine being adversely affected by switching to synthetic Sea Doo oil, personally.

 

[Dr Honda]

The seadoo oils can mix.

Well.... at least the old ones would. Last year... they obviously switched manufactures... so that may have changed.

 

[jimmaki]

I've done it, but backwards...
Decided to use synthetic in my '97 GTI so I'm not buying two different oils all the time. No problems. I can't imagine the 787 engine being adversely affected by switching to synthetic Sea Doo oil, personally.

Do you mean you went backwards to my scenario? You switched from synthetic to mineral? What happened that you could notice when you switched? Do you do the full drain and clean/reprime or just switch?

 

[jimmaki]

The seadoo oils can mix.

Well.... at least the old ones would. Last year... they obviously switched manufactures... so that may have changed.

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to any SeaDoo news last year, but what was obvious about them switching manufacturers? Is XPS no longer available?

I wonder why it's so difficult to find the real definitive answer to this simple question. Is urban legend so pervasive about mixing oils? Does anyone know where this "fear" started? The most info I can garner from multiple web searches is that some of the castor bean oils used by racers in the past that wanted the added protection of vegetable oil but didn't care about clean burning, found that their bean oils would not mix with the petroleum ones. But as far as I can tell, XPS mineral and synthetic are both petroleum and are both certified to the same API-TC higher standard (than TCW3 outboard oils), although base purity levels and additive packages differ.

I think where some confusion arises is that there are some, apparently many, oils made by companies that could not afford or just did not want to go through the expensive certification process. So it's like unlabeled food, you can't tell if it's good for you or will eventually kill you.

Rather than use my SeaDoo as a test bed, I think I'll just get some XPS synthetic and some blend and mix it in some glass or polylpropalene containers, shake it up, heat it cool it, strain it through a filter and otherwise see what happens. I'm going to bet you are right that they can be mixed.

On the other hand, I'm reading that the 787 doesn't actually require synthetic, it's just that:

a) the RAVE valves tend to stay cleaner longer with the synthetic.
b) synthetic hangs in there about 50* higher than mineral under strenuous but unusual circumstances (like running lean).
c) however, mineral oil offers better corrosion protection than synthetic
d) not all synthetics are truly synthetic, just highly refined petroleum bases

So anyway, even though I don't believe everything I read on the internet, the past hour of research seems to basically agree/point to these conclusions after filtering out the brand loyalty claims.

I'm pulling my RAVE valves for cleaning today just for general maintenance and will take a look at how much 13 years of mineral oil use have dirtied them up. I'll also peek at the pistons to see how they're doing.

 

[soccerdad]

XPS is still available. I understand they changed the people that make it.

 

[jimmaki]

What did they change them into? (just kidding)

Yes, I see Amazon still sells both the XP-S synthetic and XP-S2 mineral oil ... wonder if the "2" is the new manufacturer? I heard Castrol made it, do you know who makes it now?

I'm going to take a look at my RAVE values today and also see if I can get ahold of a small amount of synthetic and mix it with some mineral in a glass jar and see if they mix. After doing those two things, then I'll decide if I'm going to switch to synthetic or not.

 

[LouDoo]

XPS2 synthetic is now made by Red Line, I made the change a couple of years ago with absolutely no problems. And yes if your ski has RAVE valves you should be using full synthetic.

Lou

 

[Livingston Lakeside]

OK - if I get the pump thing figured out, this poor ski more than likely has all kinds on two stoke oil put in it - is that an issue? It's a 97 GTX

 

[LouDoo]

Yes, it's an issue, please start your own thread............

Lou

 

[Livingston Lakeside]

THX = just getting started on site

 

[Prime Target]

I bought my 97 GSX new and the dealer said the same thing - synthetic was not required. I ran the mineral oil for the first few tanks while my brother, who was running the same motor in his 96 XP, told me not to listen to the dealer because his machine required the synthetic. Same exact motor in both machines. After a few tanks I noticed the RAVE valves would not open. 15 hours of run time on my brand new machine. I pulled the RAVES and couldn't believe how gunked up they were. I cleaned them and made the switch the synthetic and never had another RAVE issue. Been using it in my sled too(MXZ700) and my RAVES are clean in that too. If you have a 787 or 951, you should be using full synthetic to keep those valves clean.

 

[jimmaki]

Thanks, that is very helpful anecdotal information. Sounds like SPX synthetic is in my XPS's future. I'm pulling my RAVEs now and will know shortly what 13 years of mineral oil has done to them.

 

[jimmaki]

Thanks, that seems to be the consensus. I take it you did not do the drain, clean, prime thing, correct?

 

[mikidymac]

Take a look at your service manual and the sticker next to your oil fill. They both state that the 787 and 951 require API-TC full synthetic oil. It doesn't have to be the SeaDoo brand but if you are already using the XPS semi-synthetic the only one that is guaranteed to mix with no issues is the Seadoo XPS Full synthetic. Easy way to tell with the Seadoo/Skidoo oils is white bottle is mineral oil, black bottle is semi-synthetic and yellow bottle is full synthetic.