98 Sportster 1800 - Replacing Carbon Ring, Any Advice?

[stfoulks]

I have cavitation problems in my starboard 717. After a lot of reading, I know that the 2 most likely culprits are the wear ring and the carbon ring, in my case the carbon ring seems more likely. A couple of questions for the more experienced folks would help me do this properly...

Do I just buy the carbon ring or will it come in a kit with any parts (seals/clamps) I might need for the job? What parts will I need?

Is there anything else I should do while I'm at it - wear ring? Any additional parts needed for wear ring replacement?

Since I have 2 engines, is it a good idea to always replace these consumable parts on both engines at the same time, as opposed to just doing one now and waiting for the need on the other?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Dr Honda]

OK... good for you... you figured out the problem. Seems like this morning, I've told 4 or 5 people to check their carbon seal.


When doing the seal, you will want to (at minimum) replace the carbon ring, and the 2 O-rings inside of the stainless ring. For a few $$$ more, I recommend replacing everything. Along with the above parts, also replace the boot, and the stainless ring. The reason for that is that boot will get soft, and allow the pump to suck the carbon ring back, and cause very bad cavitation.

There is one thing to check. Originally, the stainless ring was held in place with a 3rd O-ring. That O-ring was known to fail, and it allowed the stainless ring to slide toward the engine. It wasn't a huge failure... but the cavitation would be bad when that happens. Regardless of what you decide to change... make sure you buy a new style C-clip to replace the older O-ring. Your boat may have a C-clip in it already, but it's only a couple $$$, and it's good to have an extra around.

Depending who you buy from... they may have a "Kit", but most dealers are going to just have you buy individual parts.

Last word of advice... you can use aftermarket parts for the boot, O-rings, and stainless ring... but only buy a OEM SeaDoo carbon ring. The aftermarket rings are known to have a short life, or be soft. (then they crack under a load)


As far as the instalation... it's pretty simple.


In the boat

1) loosen the clamps on the boot holding the seal
2) push the stainless ring toward the transom, and remove the C-clip, or cut the retaining O-ring.
3) remove the clamp on the grease boot between the PTO and the drive shaft.


At the pump


4) remove the pump
5) slide out the drive shaft.


That's about it. From there, you can put on the new seal parts, and reassemble.


A couple notes:

1) the stainless ring may be hard to move because the old O-rings get hard. Spray a little oil between the ring and the driveshaft. Also, if you remove the pump first... you will never get the ring loose.

2) don't try to put the old metal clamp back on the PTO grease boot. Just use a zip tie.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes. :cheers:

 

[stfoulks]

Thanks for the info Doc, exceeded my expectations. I'm going to order the parts tonight and will definitely follow your advice!

 

[ocod]

OK... good for you... you figured out the problem. Seems like this morning, I've told 4 or 5 people to check their carbon seal.


When doing the seal, you will want to (at minimum) replace the carbon ring, and the 2 O-rings inside of the stainless ring. For a few $$$ more, I recommend replacing everything. Along with the above parts, also replace the boot, and the stainless ring. The reason for that is that boot will get soft, and allow the pump to suck the carbon ring back, and cause very bad cavitation.

There is one thing to check. Originally, the stainless ring was held in place with a 3rd O-ring. That O-ring was known to fail, and it allowed the stainless ring to slide toward the engine. It wasn't a huge failure... but the cavitation would be bad when that happens. Regardless of what you decide to change... make sure you buy a new style C-clip to replace the older O-ring. Your boat may have a C-clip in it already, but it's only a couple $$$, and it's good to have an extra around.

Depending who you buy from... they may have a "Kit", but most dealers are going to just have you buy individual parts.

Last word of advice... you can use aftermarket parts for the boot, O-rings, and stainless ring... but only buy a OEM SeaDoo carbon ring. The aftermarket rings are known to have a short life, or be soft. (then they crack under a load)


As far as the instalation... it's pretty simple.


In the boat

1) loosen the clamps on the boot holding the seal
2) push the stainless ring toward the transom, and remove the C-clip, or cut the retaining O-ring.
3) remove the clamp on the grease boot between the PTO and the drive shaft.


At the pump


4) remove the pump
5) slide out the drive shaft.


That's about it. From there, you can put on the new seal parts, and reassemble.


A couple notes:

1) the stainless ring may be hard to move because the old O-rings get hard. Spray a little oil between the ring and the driveshaft. Also, if you remove the pump first... you will never get the ring loose.

2) don't try to put the old metal clamp back on the PTO grease boot. Just use a zip tie.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes. :cheers:

is the rubber boot holding seal suppossed to pushed up against the SS ring w/o any give?
My SS ring is tight on the PTO but I can move the pancake hose and seal back from SS ring slightly...

Is CR has failed the SS ring would be wobbly right??

thank you

 

[seefishydotcom]

I just did my o-rings today. What a PITA.

I ended up messing up the tube that comes thru the hull from the jetpump. Luckily my mechanic has one laying around.

Spent $15.00 for just the O-rings from the BRP dealer.

 

[craigy]

My new driveline kit is in the mail.Should be able to complete friday evening.I believe the accordian hose on my 97 challenger has a certain length to collapse it to for correct friction with carrier face[per manual].:bigear:

 

[stfoulks]

Almost Done....

OK - I made a discovery going through this process. The previous owner of my boat had the starboard impeller trailing edge worked on... unfortunately, whoever did it, did not do a very good job, and ground down 2 of the 3 blades. So.... new impellers - Solas, and new wear rings were installed. This didn't fix the cavitation issue.

Doc - I've followed your instructions, which were great, and made quick work of most of the job. I have the new carbon seal, boot, SS ring, and O-rings on the shaft, and have the pump re-installed. Maybe the heat has sapped my strength, but I'm having a heck of a time pushing the SS ring back far enough to get the C clip installed. Any tips/tricks for doing this?

 

[parrothd]

I use a large crescent wrench, with the opened end around the SS ring and gently tap it, you can also try putting a little oil on the orings..

 

[stfoulks]

OK... I got it... Maybe

I managed to push the SS ring far enough to see a groove and put the C clip in. Then just as I was about to celebrate, I looked at the Port side, and the C clip is in the second groove on that side... THERE'S ANOTHER GROOVE???!!!!! Do I have to man up and try to push this thing back some more and get the C clip in groove #2?

 

[stfoulks]

Pictures

Here are some pics... old and new parts, during removal, after installation (Starboard), and then the Port Engine. The O-Rings didn't look to be in good shape in the old SS ring. I also noticed that I only ordered 1 new O-Ring and I needed 2. Luckily - I found one close by. Still not sure if I should try to cinch the new SS Ring down to the second groove or not... any advice?

 

[Dr Honda]

It's not an easy job getting the stainless ring pushed down. (I just did one today) Just push. I grease the inside O-rings to help it slide.

Some driveshafts have 1 groove, and some have 2. With new parts... I would try it on the first groove. If you have cavatation... move it up to the second.

 

[stfoulks]

It's all good...

...:cheers: Hit the water today - cavitation seems to be a thing of the past. This is the first work I've done on the boat, and it was as easy as everyone promised it would be. Thanks to all who posted articles about working on the drive system, Doc for the fine instructions, and everyone else for the encouragment. I think, having done all this now, that my o-rings were the problem all along, but I'm happy to have new parts in there.