Hello, I am new to jet boats and their maintenance. I am mechanically inclined, and usually do all my own work. I have been searching on here and google trying to find some info with pictures on how to fix the issue. I know I need to remove the pump and check the impeller and wear ring. I can't find any pictures to help with where to start. I was hoping someone could put a link to a thread with this info or help me out. I do have the manual for the boat but always find that peoples experiences and pictures are much more helpful. Just for info I believe the boat sucked up some rocks by the boat launch and had no power after that.
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97 challenger sucked up rocks, where to start?
- Thread starter finn5033
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Waterluvr
New Member
Didn't you just buy that? -Rotten luck, but easy enough to get into and repair. So you're going to need an inexpensive specialty tool to work on it and it's an item any SD owner should have on hand, it's a splined impeller removal tool that's needed to capture the drive shaft side of the impeller splines when you place the impeller shaft flat end into a bench vise to unscrew the impeller threads. The shaft has a flat milled into it for this purpose, and you'll also need to reverse the procedure to apply the proper torque when putting it back together.
Pics of the tool, since it's the start of the week you could try calling and see if an area dealer has one available otherwise numerous internet sources sell them in the $15.00 range and if you order it today you'll have it in time to get the boat back in the water for next weekend.
I have the same boat, so I'll go take some pictures to get you started removing the pump assembly from the boat. You can evaluate the wear ring, impeller and shaft / bearing condition without the spline tool on hand right away and get the rest of what you need coming or sourced locally.
For starters, there are six small screws under the right side of the ride place that hold the speed sensor wheel bracket in place, get those sprayed with a penetrating oil and then you'll see three cables that attach to the nozzle assembly that use nylocks, spray those and the four bolts that hold the steering nozzle to the pump. Back with some pictures in just a few...
Pics of the tool, since it's the start of the week you could try calling and see if an area dealer has one available otherwise numerous internet sources sell them in the $15.00 range and if you order it today you'll have it in time to get the boat back in the water for next weekend.
I have the same boat, so I'll go take some pictures to get you started removing the pump assembly from the boat. You can evaluate the wear ring, impeller and shaft / bearing condition without the spline tool on hand right away and get the rest of what you need coming or sourced locally.
For starters, there are six small screws under the right side of the ride place that hold the speed sensor wheel bracket in place, get those sprayed with a penetrating oil and then you'll see three cables that attach to the nozzle assembly that use nylocks, spray those and the four bolts that hold the steering nozzle to the pump. Back with some pictures in just a few...
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Thanks man I really appreciate that. Yes it was the first time I took it out. First off my battery was dead, then I got it going with my battery booster and sucked up rocks right away. It was an epic fail for my first time out. I will have no problem working on it, just need those pics to get me started
Waterluvr
New Member
That sticker directly over the battery area, this one pictured is no joke. Never, ever boost a battery installed in the boat and hooked to the control module. They are no longer available if you let the magic smoke out of it, and used ones are scary expensive if you could find one.
Do yourself a favor, invest in a brand new marine starting battery these boats give owners fits that try and run them with batteries that are in marginal condition, the MPEM modules have built in thresholds for low voltage conditions that will cause you all kinds of grief and unlike the automotive world there are no company's that will repair your fried MPEM or exchange it.
Ok, pump removal pics incoming in just a few minutes it's a piece of cake to take off.
Waterluvr
New Member
Alright, here's the first place to start under the right bottom edge of the ride plate there are six phillips screws that hold the speed sensor bracket that need to come out, the bracket and sensor will need to be moved aside to remove the pump when you get that far.
Next, you'll need to take the nylock nut off of the steering nozzle control cable and take it loose.
Then the VTS control cable that regulates the boat trim needs to be removed by backing out the phillips screw, that's the little handle at your helm on the far right of the shift and throttle lever.
Far left side of the steering nozzle is the reverse gate control cable, remove the nylock and separate it from the nozzle bracket.
Now all you have left is four mounting bolts that hold the steering nozzle assembly to the pump housing, take out the bottom two first (I think now is when you have to slide that speed sensor out of the way to get at that lower right bolt) and finish removing the top two. Put all your nylocks and washers back on the ends of where they go and bag up all the loose hardware and set is aside with the nozzle and steering assembly, now your left with the pump housing.
Now would be a good time to drink a beer, preferably a cold one because you're going into the engine bay next to remove a clamp.
Next, you'll need to take the nylock nut off of the steering nozzle control cable and take it loose.
Then the VTS control cable that regulates the boat trim needs to be removed by backing out the phillips screw, that's the little handle at your helm on the far right of the shift and throttle lever.
Far left side of the steering nozzle is the reverse gate control cable, remove the nylock and separate it from the nozzle bracket.
Now all you have left is four mounting bolts that hold the steering nozzle assembly to the pump housing, take out the bottom two first (I think now is when you have to slide that speed sensor out of the way to get at that lower right bolt) and finish removing the top two. Put all your nylocks and washers back on the ends of where they go and bag up all the loose hardware and set is aside with the nozzle and steering assembly, now your left with the pump housing.
Now would be a good time to drink a beer, preferably a cold one because you're going into the engine bay next to remove a clamp.
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Waterluvr
New Member
You are welcome, now for the fun part on Sea Doo jet boat pump housings there is a single plastic water supply tube with a tapered end that threads into the back top left side of the housing and protrudes through the hull and into the engine bay. Your cooling water supply hose is slid down over this tube and clamped to it at the bottom of the transom.
You need to get that clamp free and the hose pulled off so the plastic tube isn't holding the pump housing from being taken off after you get the nuts removed and break the seal of the silicon that's used to seal around the supply tube and the hole in the outside of the boat. Behind the pump housing there is a round neoprene seal that compresses and seals the back of the pump to the round intake, you'll need a new seal as well.
Just four nuts holding the pump on, you can see the silicone in the area of the water supply tube that goes back into the engine bay in the previous picture of the steering attachment.
Hopefully the last person in that pump used the proper seal and didn't silicone the pump body back in place, that's not fun to get off. You may find what looks like thin washers on the studs behind the pump, those are shims used in alignment and be careful they go back on the way you take them off if any were used.
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Waterluvr
New Member
Here's the after pics of my pump before being installed, just rebuilt it a few weeks ago. I used a new OEM wear ring and brand new OEM impeller, very happy with the boats performance afterwards and the tolerances of the new components I thought were pretty impressive when assembled. I used Mercury high performance gear lube to refill the shaft and bearings with before installing it on the boat, makes it alot easier just be sure the drain plug is oriented to very top right of the cone when you put it back on for future service needs.
Waterluvr
New Member
Once you get the pump off, you can rotate the impeller by hand and listen and feel for any bearing issues inside the pump and around the shaft. If it's smooth and quiet, then remove the anti-rattle cone and drain the gear oil. Hopefully it's just dirty and you find no water in there. The high rpm's of the jet drive cook fresh lube in a real hurry, don't sweat it if the lube comes out black and smells like death.
You'll notice inside the cone there is a spring loaded polymer pusher that rides up against the flat of the impeller shaft, and also that the shaft moves a little up and down inside the housing against a thrust washer. That movement is normal and the spring loaded pusher in the cone helps keep that from rattling when running.
the verdict
Thank you waterluvr. Your pics and directions made taking this apart easy, everything went well it only took me 45 minutes. And that was only because I took my time and tried to be careful. now for some pics of the damage. Wow, I can't believe the size of the rock it sucked up and jammed in the impeller. I have no doubt the impeller and wear ring need to be replaced.
I was wondering about the pic I took of the damage to the area outside of the pump you can see in the picture. What are your thoughts on that? If you don't mind let me know everything I will need to replace. Thank you
Thank you waterluvr. Your pics and directions made taking this apart easy, everything went well it only took me 45 minutes. And that was only because I took my time and tried to be careful. now for some pics of the damage. Wow, I can't believe the size of the rock it sucked up and jammed in the impeller. I have no doubt the impeller and wear ring need to be replaced.
I was wondering about the pic I took of the damage to the area outside of the pump you can see in the picture. What are your thoughts on that? If you don't mind let me know everything I will need to replace. Thank you
Waterluvr
New Member
Well, the impeller is chewed up pretty good along the edges but the critical areas of clearance at the tips don't look to bad. Definitely going to need a new wear ring (and round neoprene mount seal).
I have cleaned up a few rock damaged impellers lately that surely were in worse shape than your's and they are working just fine according to the before and after rides from their owners if you're so inclined to spend some vice, hammer, file and time to attempt getting the rough spots out of it and straightened. The critical area's are the discharge side of the pump and blade edge clearance to the new wear ring, .040" being max and I can attest to a new oem wear ring and a new oem impeller pn# 20416007 having a nice snug fit with .007" all the way around on my '97 Challenger.
I like the stock impeller, it pulls the boat right up on plane sharply with a healthy load on the boat from a full load of passengers or tubers/skier and the top end speed is plenty with it. I think that clearance to the wear ring is really critical with these single engine boats to get the most efficiency from your pump.
I considered sending my old damaged impeller out for a complete rework as it's significantly less money than buying new but at the end of the day I wanted to know exactly how that boat responded and ran with everything being new in that pump housing and what clearances were related to that performance level as I bought mine used just as you had with no baseline for performance expectations.
You'll need to get that silicone and old neoprene gasket cleaned off the opening to the ride shoe, maybe smooth out any gauges in the aluminum. Do I see some dime sized nicks in the gel coat from the rocks? Might want to touch those up with some epoxy or resin to seal the glass fibers also.
Have a good look at the splines on the driveshaft and make sure they aren't worn, also now is a good time to go in the engine bay and find the gray plastic cover that is over the pto shaft and carbon seal and remove the two plastic wing nuts and washer on each side to remove it. You need to grease those shaft splines at the pto fitting, just a little bit you'll see the pto boot fill and swell and inspect the carbon ring and seal boot because if any of that needs attention it's definitely worth doing now while the pump is apart and you can slide the drive shaft out if need be.
Hope that covers it, ask away if I lost you anywhere.
On Edit: Before I forget, please reference the torque spec in the manual for the steering control nylock and the rest of the control end cable components when putting it back together. Easy does it on those, they are torqued to inch pound ratings so things don't compress and break. I understand finding replacements is an issue with some of these boats now. Just snug it up if you don't have an inch pound wrench, easy does it.
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Waterluvr
New Member
$299.00 was the price, I was in a hurry to take a boat ride and I'm old and the pleasure boating season is three months a year here if you like to be in the water.
That reman is a great deal *if* it comes back to new specs, I did enough propeller reconditioning at my shop to have bi weekly pick up and drop off service in season from the two best prop companies in the business and they wouldn't touch an impeller for repair purposes.
Bottom line, I wanted to see how new completely in spec parts would run the boat and I wasn't confident that an impeller remanufactured by SBT or one of their wear rings in combination would reasonably accomplish that goal.
The guy running twins might not notice or care about a 15-20% loss in performance using cheaper aftermarket parts, on a single jet unit that's a deal breaker if you expect the boat to perform as designed.
That reman is a great deal *if* it comes back to new specs, I did enough propeller reconditioning at my shop to have bi weekly pick up and drop off service in season from the two best prop companies in the business and they wouldn't touch an impeller for repair purposes.
Bottom line, I wanted to see how new completely in spec parts would run the boat and I wasn't confident that an impeller remanufactured by SBT or one of their wear rings in combination would reasonably accomplish that goal.
The guy running twins might not notice or care about a 15-20% loss in performance using cheaper aftermarket parts, on a single jet unit that's a deal breaker if you expect the boat to perform as designed.
Murph_13
Active Member
finn5033, Waterluvr has provided excellent intruction and guidance for your repair and I'm glad things have gone well for you so far with the repair.
I owned a 96 Challenger for 6-7 years and experimented with different impellers and I almost always exceeded the weight limit of 650 lbs. for persons and gear, so getting the boat up on plane was more "challenging" you might say! So I thought I might throw my two-cents in for what it's worth when it comes to impeller selection for your boat. The '97 may have a different OEM impeller than the '96? But if not, I highly recommend a Skat-Trak impeller over the stock. The following is from a post I made on another thread a while back regarding impellers for this boat:
When I bought my boat, unbeknownst to me it had a Skat Trak Swirl 17/22 impeller in it. I damaged that impeller the second year I owned the boat. The boat was still very useable so I decided to order parts before tearing it down for repair. I assumed it had a stock impeller in it based on the PO and I was happy with the boat's performance so I ordered a stock impeller from Sea Doo (11/25 progressive pitch with square leading edges; made in Taiwan and cost more than a far superior Skat Trak made in the USA). When I was making the repair is when I discovered that the impeller was not stock. I was SO disappointed in the performance of the stock impeller...it was terrible "out of the hole" with any amount of weight in the boat (cavitated like crazy if you hammered the throttle down...which is what you want to do!). You had to "walk" the boat "out of the hole" to get on plane with a load in the boat. I couldn't stand the difference between the Skat Trak and the stock impeller so I ordered another Skat Trak and removed the pristine condition stock impeller as soon as the Skat Trak came in. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have this on the shelf in the original packaging if anyone is interested...I don't think I did a very good sales pitch on it though! I think the first thing you should do is try and determine what impeller is currently in your boat if you don't already know.
To answer your questions, the Skat Trak (both the 14.5/22 and 17/22) improved acceleration from a stand still tremendously! To be honest with you, I don't recall what affect it had on top speed as my biggest concern was getting the boat up out of the water and going with a load in/on the boat, but I'm sure I would recall if I had lost significant top end speed. I never did get a GPS speed on that boat, but the speedo would read 50-52 mph with just myself onboard or myself and another person in good conditions.
I'd recommend the Skat-Trak 14.5/22 from my experiences...
I owned a 96 Challenger for 6-7 years and experimented with different impellers and I almost always exceeded the weight limit of 650 lbs. for persons and gear, so getting the boat up on plane was more "challenging" you might say! So I thought I might throw my two-cents in for what it's worth when it comes to impeller selection for your boat. The '97 may have a different OEM impeller than the '96? But if not, I highly recommend a Skat-Trak impeller over the stock. The following is from a post I made on another thread a while back regarding impellers for this boat:
When I bought my boat, unbeknownst to me it had a Skat Trak Swirl 17/22 impeller in it. I damaged that impeller the second year I owned the boat. The boat was still very useable so I decided to order parts before tearing it down for repair. I assumed it had a stock impeller in it based on the PO and I was happy with the boat's performance so I ordered a stock impeller from Sea Doo (11/25 progressive pitch with square leading edges; made in Taiwan and cost more than a far superior Skat Trak made in the USA). When I was making the repair is when I discovered that the impeller was not stock. I was SO disappointed in the performance of the stock impeller...it was terrible "out of the hole" with any amount of weight in the boat (cavitated like crazy if you hammered the throttle down...which is what you want to do!). You had to "walk" the boat "out of the hole" to get on plane with a load in the boat. I couldn't stand the difference between the Skat Trak and the stock impeller so I ordered another Skat Trak and removed the pristine condition stock impeller as soon as the Skat Trak came in. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have this on the shelf in the original packaging if anyone is interested...I don't think I did a very good sales pitch on it though! I think the first thing you should do is try and determine what impeller is currently in your boat if you don't already know.
To answer your questions, the Skat Trak (both the 14.5/22 and 17/22) improved acceleration from a stand still tremendously! To be honest with you, I don't recall what affect it had on top speed as my biggest concern was getting the boat up out of the water and going with a load in/on the boat, but I'm sure I would recall if I had lost significant top end speed. I never did get a GPS speed on that boat, but the speedo would read 50-52 mph with just myself onboard or myself and another person in good conditions.
I'd recommend the Skat-Trak 14.5/22 from my experiences...
Waterluvr
New Member
I have the 17/22 and the 16/24 Skat swirl impellers for 140mm pumps, heck I can even send one out if he wants to try it. They won't pop a slalom skier out and up and the stock impeller will and there's not much top end difference. The 16/24 Skat swirl does have a better top end if your motor is healthy and can generate enough HP at the shaft to hook it in and keep it there to make 6800 rpm's with it. If that were coupled to a tired motor the results would be pretty disappointing.
I'd run the Skat 16/24 if it had the same level of hole shot but it just doesn't, and my motor is top of the mark for compression and being in proper tune. The caveat there is intended use, in the case of someone that's just wanting to cruise and isn't going to have much or any load behind the boat and runs a lot of smooth water rivers etc. that might end up being a better choice.
Finn if you want to try that Skat let me know I can box it up and send it out to you for a test run if you're not planning on pulling anything with the boat.
On Edit: The stock impeller is a 17/22 pitch according to the dealer's part #204160027 reference, I can get a single slalom skier up with the stock blade and the Skat 17/22 swirl won't do it, zero top end difference they both make 7K rpm's and same speeds in varying water conditions.
I'd run the Skat 16/24 if it had the same level of hole shot but it just doesn't, and my motor is top of the mark for compression and being in proper tune. The caveat there is intended use, in the case of someone that's just wanting to cruise and isn't going to have much or any load behind the boat and runs a lot of smooth water rivers etc. that might end up being a better choice.
Finn if you want to try that Skat let me know I can box it up and send it out to you for a test run if you're not planning on pulling anything with the boat.
On Edit: The stock impeller is a 17/22 pitch according to the dealer's part #204160027 reference, I can get a single slalom skier up with the stock blade and the Skat 17/22 swirl won't do it, zero top end difference they both make 7K rpm's and same speeds in varying water conditions.
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Murph_13
Active Member
Did some looking...appears that Sea Doo realized how bad the impeller was in the 96 Challenger because the 97 Challenger has a different P/N for the impeller, so maybe your OEM impeller performance isn't bad. If the impeller in your pictures is OEM then it is definitely different than the 96 impeller which had square leading edges as opposed to the teardrop leading edges in your pictures.
96 Impeller P/N - 271000620
97 Impeller P/N - 204160027
This may or may not be something to consider when replacing your impeller, Skat Trak has reasonable pricing (in my opinion) on impeller repairs...you never know when you might run into this situation/repair again...I once picked up some fishing line that evidentally someone cut free as I was going across the middle of a lake and my driveshaft reeled in the weight that was attached to the end of the line...the noise that followed had me thinking that I toasted my engine as I was going across the middle of the lake so having picked something up in the pump never crossed my mind...
96 Impeller P/N - 271000620
97 Impeller P/N - 204160027
This may or may not be something to consider when replacing your impeller, Skat Trak has reasonable pricing (in my opinion) on impeller repairs...you never know when you might run into this situation/repair again...I once picked up some fishing line that evidentally someone cut free as I was going across the middle of a lake and my driveshaft reeled in the weight that was attached to the end of the line...the noise that followed had me thinking that I toasted my engine as I was going across the middle of the lake so having picked something up in the pump never crossed my mind...
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I know it has been a long time but I wanted to update this thread. Been very busy since the end of the summer last year. Put my house up for sale and moved to the lake. To update I cleaned up my damaged impeller, replaced the wear ring and pump seal and put the pump back on the boat. There was a significant loss of power. Before I sucked up that rock the boat would go 45mph with 2 adults in it. I was lucky to get to 30mph after that with me and a buddy in the boat. So naturally I will be ordering a new impeller. I am going to go with a brand new stock one. I'll let you know if that makes the difference. If it doesn't I will need more advise anyways.
Another update, I ordered a brand new OEM impeller and finally got it in the boat this last Saturday. I could tell right away how much tighter it fit to the wear ring. Got it out on the lake and sure enough it was night and day different. With me and a buddy in the boat it would go 45 again. The info given here was great, thanks again.
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