'97 challenger 1800 - Hull Thru Fitting (replacement help)

[funvee]

If anyone has a thread or doc on how to replace the "hull thru fitting" on a 97 challenger 1800, it would be greatly appreciated.

I originally thought my problem was from the infamous carbon ring so I bought one and the two o-rings and began following the super description on this site about how to do it. All went well until I took the old carbon ring out and measured it and direct compared it to the new one but there was zero difference so I took the accordion boot off too, sure enough my HTF is toast.


I am going to pickup a new one from brp tomorrow AM but I thought I'd get ahead of the game by removing the old one but I don't know if there is a 'good' way and a 'bad' way to get it out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[dbracela]

I'm pretty sure pale rider did his on his 98 challenger 1800. Check out his thread called "project Reel Swell. "

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?54357-1998-SeaDoo-Challenger-1800-Restoration-Project-quot-Reel-Swell-quot&p=360957#post360957

 

[funvee]

I'm pretty sure pale rider did his on his 98 challenger 1800. Check out his thread called "project Reel Swell. "

Link to Reel Swell

Thanks, I took a look thru that thread but I couldn't see how he got the old one out so if anyone knows, I'm still looking for guidance.

Thanks

 

[racerxxx]

Thanks, I took a look thru that thread but I couldn't see how he got the old one out so if anyone knows, I'm still looking for guidance.

Thanks

Perhaps the one your getting will be similar to the SBT one and you just need to epoxy it in. Other than that you need to cut the old one off like Pale did. Wait until you get your new one.

I'm also gonna go out on a limb here and say your engine is out of alignment and that is was wore the fitting down. You should really have the engine aligned---you can see in Pale Riders thread the alignment tool while he was installing the thru hull fittings. That is a VERY wise idea.

 

[funvee]

Perhaps the one your getting will be similar to the SBT one and you just need to epoxy it in. Other than that you need to cut the old one off like Pale did. Wait until you get your new one.

I'm also gonna go out on a limb here and say your engine is out of alignment and that is was wore the fitting down. You should really have the engine aligned---you can see in Pale Riders thread the alignment tool while he was installing the thru hull fittings. That is a VERY wise idea.

Thanks, I will wait to see what brp is going to give me tomorrow. I'll definitely look into alignment, I think that's a good idea.

 

[funvee]

Yup, the one brp gave me is the aluminum sleeve style so now I just need to know what I need to do to the section of the old fitting that still is in the hull after I cut off the interior flange.

Any guidance would be super!

Thanks
Shawn

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks, I took a look thru that thread but I couldn't see how he got the old one out so if anyone knows, I'm still looking for guidance.

Thanks

You don't take it out. You cut it off flush, (hacksaw) and glue in the new one.

 

[racerxxx]

I though it was self explanatory when I posted the link to it in Pale Riders thread last night sorry man, my bad.

Pics courtesy of [MENTION=58005]Pale Rider[/MENTION]
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...eel-Swell-quot&p=275047&viewfull=1#post275047

 

[funvee]

I did the cut flush part and cleaned p the chewed up part in the piece left in the hull using a dremel tool but I think I must be missing something because there is no way this will hold water out... The fit between the new HTF and the shaft is not even remotely tight so while I was trying to figure what I was missing, I found a white plastic tube that had also been shredded. It was laying on the ground under the boat so I assume it came out when I pulled the drive shaft out.

Is this the piece that somehow keeps water out of do I have the wrong hull through fitting piece. See picture for better understanding of what I'm seeing.



Thanks!

 

[racerxxx]

The white piece is the drive shaft protector, put that in the trash. You need to epoxy the thru hull fitting in. Then you have to put the bellow and carbon seal back together with the drive shaft, like the other side.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

 

[funvee]

The white piece is the drive shaft protector, put that in the trash. You need to epoxy the thru hull fitting in. Then you have to put the bellow and carbon seal back together with the drive shaft, like the other side.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks but if I do that, water will pour into the boat faster than the bilge could keep up. I just did a test...without epoxying the HTF in permanently and there is nothing keeping water out and that was with me just splashing water at it from a bucket.

I didn't go so far as to put the pump on, but the shaft was held in straight and tight.

After that I talked to brp service here and they said that the first part of the drive protector was to be filled with a gasket maker material and that this is how water is kept out. He also said that most people cut them off where it comes out of the hull (apparently better performance).

He said something about the tube being sub'd by a ring.... So now I'm waiting to hear from parts again to see what this replacement seal is.

I'm pretty sure that I haven't been expressing my problem correctly or the others that have done this have some piece I'm missing because it definitely can't work as my test assembly proved. (Also, I light in the tunnel is fully visable from the back of the shaft when test fit)

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it greatly.

 

[dbracela]

The thru-hull fitting doesn't keep water out. It lets the driveshaft pass through the hull. When you put the bellows back on and clamp it around the thru-hull fitting, and install the rest of the carbon/steel ring assembly,THAT is what keeps the water out. What the dealer was saying about the shaft protector is, is that normally you would just cut it off and leave the part that's gooped in place. That's only if you weren't changing the thru-hull fitting IIRC. Once you epoxy the new one in, water can't enter around the fitting, and once the carbon ring assembly is in place water can't get into the boat past it. In fact, if I understand it correctly, water HAS to come past the end of the thru-hull fitting in order to cool the carbon ring. As far as I can tell, the thru-hull fitting does nothing other than give a place to attach the bellows to. It's not a seal.

 

[racerxxx]

LOL, I ripped my drive shaft protectors off years ago, along with everyone else that has sucked up a ski rope.

Once you epoxy the fitting in, you have to put the rest of the seal together. Like the pic below. This is a twin engine boat right? Just look at the other side.

Here's what it will look like assembled. Disregard teh text, I stole the pic from Google.

Here is the drive assembly # 9 slips over #14 and numbers 2, 8, and 10 are what seal the water from coming in.

 

[funvee]

The thru-hull fitting doesn't keep water out. It lets the driveshaft pass through the hull. When you put the bellows back on and clamp it around the thru-hull fitting, and install the rest of the carbon/steel ring assembly,THAT is what keeps the water out.

On mine, the shaft doesn't fit snug against the carbon ring either. If I put it together as you describe, the water flows in past the HTF, then past the inside edge of the new carbon ring and then comes out between the steel retainer flange and the carbon ring.

I'm going to go down to brp shortly and will bring my ipad to see what I'm doing wrong. The hope is that the sub'd part (that I don't have yet) is what I need to keep the water out.

I assume the carbon ring isn't supposed to be snug to the shaft right? Mine isn't even remotely snug if it is supposed to be.

Thanks!

 

[funvee]

On mine #8 and #11 don't fit snug so the water flows straight past it and comes out between 10 and 8.

(Apparently the new microfiche shows the extra seal before #14)

Thanks.

 

[racerxxx]

On mine #8 and #11 don't fit snug so the water flows straight past it and comes out between 10 and 8.

(Apparently the new microfiche shows the extra seal before #11)

Thanks.

8's not supposed to. I'm posting pics in a minute.

 

[racerxxx]

1st pic you can see the o-rings that seal the shaft
2nd pic it's tight to the shaft
3rd pic (#8) doesn't seal--it's not supposed to
4th pic, carbon seal--this is what holds the water out in conjusction with the silver half of the seal
5th pic, the c clip goes in there and you slide the silver part over the clip so it won't pop off
c-clip part# 272000135, just google it and hit image button, you'll see it.

6th pic--you don't get water in the boat


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

 

[racerxxx]

I'm going out on a limb and you don't have item #10 or #2 or #7 (the c clip replaced the o-ring they used to use)

 

[funvee]

1st pic you can see teh o-rings that seal the shaft
2nd pic its tight to the shaft
3rd pic (#8) doesn't seal--it's not supposed to
4th pic, carbon seal--this is what holds the water out
5th pic, the c clip goes in tehre and you slide the silver part over the clip

6th pic--you don't get water in the boat

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

Ya, that's how loose my carbon ring looks too... Ok so the friction between the steel flange with the internal o-rings and the face of the carbon ring is the water seal?

Just so I understand, you are saying that while the boat is sitting in water, that belows will be filled with water correct? The brp service guy said it should never have appreciable water in there (I was asking what happens if the bellows gets cut).

I'm tempted to take off my other side to see but it's working so good that I'm affraid to jinx it . But it might come to that if the replacement seal doesn't do anything appreciable.

It should be said, I'm not sure that the brp guy is 100% truthful ... He keeps saying to bring it in and they'll fix it, they just want my first born son.

I'll let ya know when then find the new retainer seal.

Thanks!

 

[racerxxx]

Yes, water/air will be trapped in the accordion boot. The tension by the boot with the carbon ring(#8) and the stainless steel flange with the 2 o-rings IS the entire seal. It's amazing how simple the seal is, it's like black magic.

If for some strange reason you don't have the metal c clip but have an o-ring instead (#7) replace it with the metal c clip. If #10 pops past #7 (if it is an oring) the boat fills with water, if the accordion boot rips, it fills with water, if the thru hull fitting breaks, it fills with water, if the carbon seal were to shatter, it fills with water. So, just about anything can make you boat fill with water on the driveline.

 

[dbracela]

Yup, you're getting it. Racerxxx has the rest covered, and his advice on using the c clip vs the older o ring style is bang on.

 

[funvee]

Yes, water/air will be trapped in the accordion boot. The tension by the boot with the carbon ring(#8) and the stainless steel flange with the 2 o-rings IS the entire seal. It's amazing how simple the seal is, it's like black magic.

If for some strange reason you don't have the metal c clip but have an o-ring instead (#7) replace it with the metal c clip. If #10 pops past #7 (if it is an oring) the boat fills with water, if the accordion boot rips, it fills with water, if the thru hull fitting breaks, it fills with water, if the carbon seal were to shatter, it fills with water. So, just about anything can make you boat fill with water on the driveline.

You're the man! I just got finished arguing with brp service dept ... They are 100% wrong. The retaining ring that the one guy was saying I needed it make it water tight was actually just a retainer ring for the plastic tube part. Another customer came in while we were discussing it and he straightened them all out. I think they just wanted my boat in their shop so they could send their kids to university

I'm epoxying my HTF in a couple hours, ill post how it went ... Thanks a ton!!!

 

[funvee]

Yup, I picked 2 up. Gunna cut the o ring on my port one off and upgrade too.

Thanks!

 

[racerxxx]

No Problem,

 

[dbracela]

Self five... Love it!