96 Speedster Question/direction

[Mooze]

Alright info....


I bought a 96 speedster hasn't been ran in 2 years

Eng 1
fully assembled cyl 1 145 psi cyl 2 150 psi.. Was able to use some starting fluid to just see if it would fire (it did)

Eng 2
Bottom end replaced with used one, upper half just slapped on all new gaskets and o rings. carbs and exhaust removed. By previous owner... Compression Check cyl 1 140 psi cyl 2 90 psi... Took cyl 2 apart had scaring on the walls.. Honed it put it back together.. Cyl 1 135 cyl 2 120 (not sure why the drop in Cyl 1 psi) Rings in cyl 2 met specs for gap.

Gas
Mixed been in there about two years ( plan on draining ) Fuel gauge doesn't work (gauge or wiring?)

Oil / injection
Tank empty / injection removed ( have pumps) but they cut off the lines so would need new ones

Electrical
All but bilge pump seems to work. He did some sort of messed up wiring and cut the wires and tried to do his own thing (would be nice to have a full wire diagram)

Hull / seats
Great shape

Ok I think that fills in the back ground

So here are the questions I have. Of course any other info any body would like to supply would be wonderful too!

A) with the oil injection removed what kind of oil should I fill OIL tank with?
B) What kind of gas / oil / mix ratio should I use for it? (maybe next season look into putting injection back)
C) I'm not sure if he ever aligned the engines should I tear it all down and do it? (pay the 150 for the tool or?)
D) The bilge wires have been cut up, does any one have a wire diagram for it?
E) Should I try to run the engines after I get em back together with out tearing apart carbs ( if it aint broke don't fix it?)
F) After i get all the electrical and engines back together can I just power wash the eng compartment and boat?
G) Also, the two points on either side of the boat is that where you hook up water to run the boat? White plastic / black screw on cap. I'd hate to ruin the engines if they aren't already!

Um... Those are all the questions I have... Any do's or Don'ts would be nice ... Thanks ahead of time

A new LOST jet boat owner!

 

[Dr Honda]

ENG1: it's fine

ENG2: 120 is too low for that engine. Try to run it... but if you can't get into the 140 realm... you will have too much blow-by, and melt a piston.

GAS: 99% chance that all you need to do is replace the float in the sender, and the gauge will work again.

Oil Injection: rebuild/replace the system. The system is very reliable, and you need an oil source for the rotary valve gears.

A) You need an API-TC oil TC-w3 is a HUGE no-no in a rotax engine.

b) Put the injection back on now. 40:1 is what you need for pre-mix, but don't run the RV gears dry.

c) You need to align the engines.

d) If you become a premium member... you can D/L the maunal here. Or... do a search on Google, and I'm sure you will find it.

E) It's up to you. Since it's been sitting, and had other issues... I'd take them apart.

F) High pressure isn't good on the wires/seals. Just use regular pressure, and "Super Clean" and your bilge will look good as new.

G) There should be a threaded fitting, with a cap by the vent holes under the deck lid. BUT... running on the hose is hard on a Seadoo. The reason is... the carbon seal (drivshaft) needs to be in the water to keep it cool. Also... without a load... it's hard to tell what the engines are actually doing. So... if they start... just head to the lake. The hose connections are basically just for flushing, and you should run the engine for less than 2 or 3 minutes on the hose.

 

[Mooze]

WOW, Thanks a lot for the quick response and helpful answers!

Alrighty, Now I have some direction at least.. I can't wait to get it in the water. However, I want to make sure I take my time and get it all right before I head out!

Is there any other tools (cheaper) for alignment or is the 150 tool from SBT the only option?

Also is there any other option for running the eng out of water for adjustment or do you have to do adjustments out in the water?

Thanks AGAIN

A new LESS lost jet boat owner

 

[LouDoo]

I just bought an alignment tool from SBT last week, they were offering free freight. Anyway to say I was impressed is an understatement.

This is one fine tool, very well made, it's well worth the money, just go ahead and buy one, every one who works on their own SeaDoo should have one. And no I don't work for or own the company.

Lou

 

[Mooze]

Thanks LouDoo, I was thinking that if I plan on owning the boat, Ill probably at more than one point, need that tool so I may as well buy it! I was just hoping for a cheaper alternative. Oh well

OK so I have a Maintenance Manual for the boat now.. Another question arose as I read through it. It says something about using Loctite 515 around cylinder grove when putting it back together. Now it had a o-ring in there. Do I still put this "Gasket Maker" In that grove with the o-ring? Or does it use this as an alternative to the o-ring. It was a bit misleading. :banghead:

"Apply Loctite 515 Gasket Eliminator (P / N 293
800 007) in cylinder sleeve O-ring groove."

Any ideas? If I haven't put it there could that be part of / all of the problem with lower than optimal compression?

Thanks again.

 

[Mooze]

After you fill the Oil tank, do you just turn the eng over until you see oil flow from the output side? As far as the case oil is concerned?
Also, on the speedster can it be ran from the hose looking connection on the bottom under the swim platform?

 

[Dr Honda]

I just bought an alignment tool from SBT last week, they were offering free freight. Anyway to say I was impressed is an understatement.

This is one fine tool, very well made, it's well worth the money, just go ahead and buy one, every one who works on their own SeaDoo should have one. And no I don't work for or own the company.

Lou

Why do you think that I never tried to make a cheaper version?? I just couldn't. Even owning a machine shop... I own the SBT tool. It wasn't worth my time to make it... even for myself.

After you fill the Oil tank, do you just turn the eng over until you see oil flow from the output side? As far as the case oil is concerned?
Also, on the speedster can it be ran from the hose looking connection on the bottom under the swim platform?

How empty was the tank? and are you still running pre-mix?


If you are running pre-mix... then yes... just start the engine, and the oil will flow into the RV if the hoses aren't plugged. If you put the oil injection back on... you need to do a proper bleeding.


Yes... if you have a threaded fitting by the pump... you can flush it from there.

 

[Mooze]

Thanks again for the quick reply!

Once I know the engines run, I am planning on buying the alignment tool. I figure as I pulled the pumps off to use the tool I can look at the parts and order any thing I need to along with the the alignment tool.

Yes I am still going to run pre-mix for now.. The tank is currently empty... So Ill just fill it up with the recommended API-TC oil. I will watch the oil lines to make sure that they are pulling and pushing oil properly through the crank. I am going to wash the bilge area so it will also be easy to see if any leaks. (Wal-mart quick sliver PWC API-TC ok to run?)

As far as the connection on the back. I hook the hose up, start the eng, then turn water on just a little bit (not full blast) and don't run eng for more than a few minutes due to drive system over heating correct?

This place is making this much less daunting..

 

[rjcress]

I found the alignment tool by setting up a craigslist monitor with an app on my phone (app is no longer available... but I'm sure something is).

Here is what I got for $125:
2 impeller tools
SBT alignment tool with 2 transom plates and a few end pieces for the alignment shaft
pop-off tester
flywheel puller
VTS tool

Spare parts from a 1996 XP
oil pump
starter
drive shaft w/ bellows, support ring, carbon ring, end bumpers

Since you aren't in a hurry for the alignment tool yet, you could keep an eye out for a used one and maybe score a good deal.

 

[Mooze]

update....

So Both engines started, I ran them for a couple minutes a couple times 15 or so minutes to allow every thing to cool..

Eng 1
Rpms wouldn't go over 3500 rpm and it smoked like a frieght train.. I mixed the gas a little heavy... It would idle pretty good albeit smoking, but as soon as you hit the gas it would bog smoke real bad and not go above 3500.. I removed the plugs they seemed to be a bit with with gas.

Eng 2
Rpms unknown due to rpm gauge not reading. However, it sounded much like the number 1 eng. And did the same thing as far as throttling and bogging with smoke.. plugs a bit wet with fuel...

Cooling
Water system seem to be tight and I didn't notice any leaks.. Was coming out the little hole in the back ( indicator ?)

Oil (no injection as of now)
I couldn't tell if it was moving properly. I watched the lines but couldn't tell.. There seemed to be oil in the line that heads to the top of the tank.. I would assume that means its moving through the eng? but we know what we get from assuming...

Drivetrain
Number 1 sounded clean still plan on pulling it checking it and replacing parts and checking alignment before i hit the water...
Number 2 had a clang sound to it.. Or at least it sounded as if it was coming from the drive and not the eng ... Pulling checking / and replacing...

Carbs
Have not been cleaned or rebuilt.. the boat sat for two years.

So questions / ideas
A) Is there a way to verify that oil is in fact moving properly through the system?
B) Is the oil system suppose to be pressurized?
c) The terrible running engs probably due to the carbs being all gummed up? Just clean or rebuild?
D) Can i run the engines with out the drive system hooked up until i get the alignment tool and replacement parts? Ignore haha


If anybody has any other suggestions or maybe thinks its something else let me know..

MANY THANKS AHEAD OF TIME!

PS super clean made the bilge area sparkle..

 

[Mooze]

Update again! found out why it wasn't going above 3500.. Neutral! haha.. NOOB.. a little reading found that for me

So now I have to run through the drive train and its almost ready to put in the water to test! woo! That clang is still in the number 2 eng drive train..

So question

A) How do i verify 1000000000 percent that oil is in fact going in and out of case?


Thanks!

 

[Dr Honda]

The easiest way, is to service the oil system, and replace the hoses. Then... when you bleed them... you will see if the pump is working.

 

[Mooze]

The easiest way, is to service the oil system, and replace the hoses. Then... when you bleed them... you will see if the pump is working.

With out injection do you have to bleed the system?
how does the crank pull oil into the system?

Thanks again... BTW I'm getting stoked to see this thing in the water!

 

[Mooze]

Could i just pull the output line off the engine case and run it for a few seconds.. If there is oil coming from it then its working ???

[SUP]The out put is the right hand side under the carbs right?[/SUP] Ignore

The out put is on the left side under the pipe upon further reading?

Really confused.. But I really want to be sure about the oil moving properly.. Also today I noticed oil in the bilge area.. I think i have a leaking line on the number 1 engine. I'll have to mirror and flashlight it and look around..

If anyone could verify that the following is true that would be very helpful.

Looking at the manual, It look as if the two input lines come from the bottom of the tank and go to under the RVs, while the output lines come from under the pipe and run to the top of the tank near the one way air valve..

Sorry for being so twitchy about this subject.. Easy to think it's working and it not be.. Poof there goes my engines

Thanks for the help

EDIT number 100000

Is the crank system just gravity fed or does it actually have a pump system? (oil injection removed)

 

[Mooze]

Well, I pulled the jet pumps off the back of the boat.. I disconnected the direction control rod, the fwd/rev cable, and I removed the 4 nuts from around the pump.. A couple taps with my palm it came right off.. Leaving just the drive shaft still hooked up.. ( is it normally that easy to take off?) Either way, I checked the pumps clearance.. YAY, both are no more than .012 so good to go.. However, upon further inspection I did notice that the number 2 eng had a, bit smaller and more oval than, dime sized chunkyness missing in the wear ring......... So, with measurements being so good does any one think that will be an issue?

So now I think its time to order my alignment tool, and a shim set so I can check both engs and I think its about time to get it in the water for a test ride! WOO!

Oh and I think I figured out my leak too! It seems it was the Old Oil inj lines that had been plugged near the number 1 eng dripping into the bilge are! So I redid those.. We will see in a day or two if that was it!

So couple more questions...

I've noticed a lot of the lines run very close to the exhaust should these be moved or does the exhaust stay relatively cool?
Should I while i have the pumps pulled off re-doo the grease in the (cone?)?

That's the update and questions for now Thanks again for all the help!

 

[rjcress]

You might get more valuable responses on the wear ring question if you post pics so we can see the "chunkyness" that you mentioned. Although, my relatively inexperienced thought is that you probably should change it to KNOW it is good... since you have the pump off.

When I took the pump off of my GTX I was just planning to do the wear ring, but then found the bearings needed service also, so I just rebuilt the whole pump, including the cone oil/grease. You just bought your boat, right, so you don't know when it was done last (or if it was)... so I'd do it, if I were you, so you know.

or, if you were talking about the grease in the little rubber boot/cone that joins the drive shaft to the impeller... then yes, both ends of the drive shaft should be greased... cone/impeller end AND the PTO end (and make sure the rubber bumpers are installed).

Clear as mud? :facepalm:

 

[Mooze]

This would be the "chunkyness". It seems to be the only dmg I can find and all three blades are not more than the .012.... The blade edges are ok.. some nicks but nothing too serious..

 

[Mooze]

As far as the greasing, I haven't pulled the nozzle off the pump yet.. I think in there is where you put the full syth 75w90 or what ever,,, I know I've read it some where.. I have no idea when it was last done. So I'm assuming it would probably be a good idea to split the nozzle from the pump and pull that cone off and re-lube it! I think that clears up what I meant

Your help is much appreciated.. New at boating and even newer to the jet boats

 

[rjcress]

View attachment 19794
This would be the "chunkyness". It seems to be the only dmg I can find and all three blades are not more than the .012.... The blade edges are ok.. some nicks but nothing too serious..

Good pic. That should help.
I don't know enough to give you a bullet-proof answer, but my guess is that this should be replaced.

 

[dbracela]

Since you have the pump off, why not just change out the wear ring? They aren't expensive, it's fairly straightforward, and it'll give you a chance to inspect it all. If not, then yes, change the pump oil, especially since you don't know when it was done last or what shape it's in. I had a jet pump oil leak last year and ruined my entire pump.

 

[Mooze]

Update...

All the drive system is good..That SBT alignment tool is definitely worth the money! Checked pumps and drive shafts to specs in the manual! So I think we will be good with that... Engines sound good and start up fine.. Replaced the buzzer.. Although, it works when I short the temp sensors out, I don't hear beeps when I connect the key.. odd.. Adjusted the fwd and revs cables to make it lock in and hit stops...


However, I still have a ONE burning question that I can't seem to get a straight fwd answer about. The number 2 eng RV oil lines.. There is a just a little bit of oil in the lines by the input side of the eng under carbs.. On the out put side it's empty looking until it gets the bottom of the line lower in the boat. I ran the eng again and watched the output side under the pipes and I cant see any oil flowing.. So I'm almost ready for water test but with out knowing 100% that the RV in number 2 eng is getting oil I'm hesitant!

Please if any one has a surefire way to check this, or at least some direction to check this let me know!!!!!

Thanks Again

 

[Mooze]

The hose on the bottom of the tank will hook to the barb at the bottom of the engine, and the hose on the top of the tank hooks barb on the top of the engine case. (above the manifold)

The rotary valve really doesn't circulate oil. Basically, the cavity fills via the bottom hose, and vents out the top hose. So... the bottom hose will be full of oil, and the top will have air in it.

The reason we hook it to the tank, is because it's common for an old engine to have center seals that leak... and if you only filled the cavity, it would quickly deplete, and you would ruin the gears. When it's hooked to the tank, you will have a way of monitoring it.

Since your pump is gone... the proper mix will be 40:1, and you still need to run an API-TC oi.l. (no TC-w3 oils) Oh... and as long as you don't have a leak... the oil in the tank, feeding the gears, will never need more than a quart. If the level drops, that's a sign that the center seals are bad.

Found this.. Perfect answer to my question... Even though this was from another thread I assume it will also translate to the speedsters 717s