'96 Seadoo Starting/Electrical Problem - HELP

[Ktobias]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and a little new to working on these skis. I have browsed through but have not found a solution that worked yet.

I have a '96 Seadoo XP. Second ski that I do not use very often except other ski is in shop so thought I would try and get this one going. Tried to start and would only get the solonoid clicking with no action at the starter. At first, thought it was battery and battery happened to be old so bought brand new gel battery. Same thing. Removed and replaced starter with new starter. Motor turns fine with no plugs but once plugs are in it will turn slightly but then stop after maybe two-four revolutions. I then noticed the old starter had a nut and what appeared to be a broken piece of wire. Realizing this was where the ground wire should be I removed the ground from where it was attached (obvisouly by last owner) to top half of motor and reattached it to one of the bolts holding the new starter on. Still same thing. Not an oil or hydro-lock situation. When plugs are out not spitting much out holes except some gas.

Ok, more info. VTS in this ski smokes from the actual unit in rear. Disconnected VTS after looking at manual using 3 plugs under main compartment. Dont know if this has to do with anything but when VTS was hooked up (and smoking) still did not start.

Here are some other items I noticed:

Ground cable gets very hot when trying to start. Burn yourself kind of hot.

When attempting to jump posts on solenoid, started gets a tiny kick but posts arc bad.

When I hook the battery up, even with lanyard not connected I can hear a click and see a spark at the battery terminal as if there is something constantly draining on the battery.

When I try to start it and it turns once or twice and then stops, it will only making the clicking noise from the solenoid until I manually turn the drive shaft. Then it will do the same thing again until stuck.

If anybody has any insight, would be greatly appreciated. Getting kind of frustrating. Lastly ski was not winterized fully if that could cause anything. Was in enclosure and cylinders were fogged out and all water was drained and dryed from hull area but not much else.

Thanks,

Keith

 

[seadoosnipe]

Hot wire?

Keith, welcome to seadoo forum. There is a couple things going on here. First, if the battery cable is getting really hot, my first question would be, are you turning over or engaging the start button for longer than 30 seconds? If so, this will not only get the cable hot, but it will begin to melt the lead on your battery posts. Battery and starter systems, although are only 12 vdc, are really high in cold cranking amps, so if your using your starter continuously without much break, it won't take long to really heat it up. You can remove the starter, or the wires to the starter and test it fairly easily. With what I'm reading about your trouble shooting, I feel pretty sure you already know about this test. But I wouldn't do any cross jumping with an outside electrical supply.
When you first attach the battery cables, the positive first, then your ground, you should get an initial electrical contact click (static spark), this is a power signal being sent to your MPEM. After 33 seconds, it'll shut off. (I wouldn't try jumping or by-passing electricals [or arcing out] here because of the danger to your MPEM.....replacement cost?...you don't want to know)
I'd like to know if you've done a compression test? At this point, this is pretty important. If your able to roll the engine over with the plugs out, then when you put them in, after a few revolutions, the motor seems to bog down till the starter will no longer rotate the engine; I'd be curious as to what your compression is at that point. If you don't have one, there real inexpensive at your local "Autozone" store and it will be an investment that you'll probably use over again.
Have you done anywork before this started? How long did it set up? If you can, take off your flame arrester and expose your carbs intake. After you put your plugs in and you know it's gonna turn over 4 or 5 revolutions, put your hand over the carbs intake and see if you feel it sucking air as you turn it over. I'm almost curious as to whether the rotary valve shaft is sheared.

Hope this info has been of some help to you. Let me know what you find out. I'll be curious and waiting to here your results!
BTW, you said the XP, so we are talking about the 787 engine, correct?

 

[Ktobias]

Keith, welcome to seadoo forum. There is a couple things going on here. First, if the battery cable is getting really hot, my first question would be, are you turning over or engaging the start button for longer than 30 seconds? If so, this will not only get the cable hot, but it will begin to melt the lead on your battery posts. Battery and starter systems, although are only 12 vdc, are really high in cold cranking amps, so if your using your starter continuously without much break, it won't take long to really heat it up. You can remove the starter, or the wires to the starter and test it fairly easily. With what I'm reading about your trouble shooting, I feel pretty sure you already know about this test. But I wouldn't do any cross jumping with an outside electrical supply.
When you first attach the battery cables, the positive first, then your ground, you should get an initial electrical contact click (static spark), this is a power signal being sent to your MPEM. After 33 seconds, it'll shut off. (I wouldn't try jumping or by-passing electricals [or arcing out] here because of the danger to your MPEM.....replacement cost?...you don't want to know)
I'd like to know if you've done a compression test? At this point, this is pretty important. If your able to roll the engine over with the plugs out, then when you put them in, after a few revolutions, the motor seems to bog down till the starter will no longer rotate the engine; I'd be curious as to what your compression is at that point. If you don't have one, there real inexpensive at your local "Autozone" store and it will be an investment that you'll probably use over again.
Have you done anywork before this started? How long did it set up? If you can, take off your flame arrester and expose your carbs intake. After you put your plugs in and you know it's gonna turn over 4 or 5 revolutions, put your hand over the carbs intake and see if you feel it sucking air as you turn it over. I'm almost curious as to whether the rotary valve shaft is sheared.

Hope this info has been of some help to you. Let me know what you find out. I'll be curious and waiting to here your results!
BTW, you said the XP, so we are talking about the 787 engine, correct?

Thanks for the quick reply. No, I do not hold the starter button down for more then 3 second intervals. That is actually the amount of time before the starter gets bogged and I need to manually rotate the shaft to unbind. As for the MPEM getting power upon initially hooking up the battery, that can definitely be the slight click I hear when I hook up power. Thanks. Did not know if it was something to be concerned about. As for compression, no I have not run a test yet besides holding my finger over the spark plug holes. I will run out and get a tester however leaving for Atlantic City today so you wont see a response on this until Sunday. I will post what I find. No I have not done any work to this ski before this except replacing a battery when I got the ski. Let me say that this ski was highly neglected when I got it. Bought it with my Ultra150 and this ski was more of a throw in. Did run fine last season but if memory serves me right, one day was interupted by a blown fuse. I think at that time you would hit the start button and nothing. Cant remember exactly but remember something. VTS worked for about 3 days. Then I noticed the ski had no power while out and would start to bog down when under throttle. When pulling off the seat, compartment was filled with smoke and ultimately, this was coming from VTS unit itself. That is why I disconnected it. Yes, it is a 787 engine. Looks identical to one of the two motors I had in my '98 Speedster. Again, I will be traveling today but will get back to you with some more info once I return. Thanks for your help.

Keith

 

[seadoosnipe]

Compression

Thanks Keith, and BTW, in your response you quote me as saying no more than 3 seconds.....that wouldn't heat up your battery wires or terminals, I did say 30 seconds.....I think you understood that and your reply must have been a typo.
Let me know about the compression. I'm curious as to whether your carbs are sucking air after you remove the spark arrestor. That would be a tell-tell sign that your rotary valve could be malfunctioning...........and that's really going out on a limb there.
Just when you can, let me know what you come up with in compression, at the time the engine starts to bog down. I'm having a theory that your building compression without being able to exhaust that compression, which it turn could get so high, your starter wouldn't be able to turn the crank any further. There are other issues....bearings, magneto....could be other things....just need to know what your compression and plugs are doing!..
later dude..
Louis