96 GTX starting issue/Video inside.

[94silver]

So I recently bought this 96 GTX for $100 bucks, guy had it sitting on the backyard and said he needed a new jet pump. So today I finally had some time to really look at it and it seems like the issue is a bit more than just the jet pump.

When I try to crank the engine over it cranks but VERY slow, if I pull the spark plugs out then the engine cranks just fine (see video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riqQZ3TgDmQ


What could the issue be ? is my engine shot? I feel like I have full compression on both cylinders (haven't done test because I lend my gauge to a friend) maybe I have a bad crank?

Help!

Thanks

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I would check flywheel and bendix as it is makeing a bad sound with and without sparkplugs in it. I hear some sort of grinding in the back ground. :cheers:

 

[94silver]

I would check flywheel and bendix as it is makeing a bad sound with and without sparkplugs in it. I hear some sort of grinding in the back ground. :cheers:

How can I check that? sorry I'm a newbie :ack:

 

[kustomkarl]

It sounds to me like the rings are catching on the ports in the engine...I would pull the heads off and look inside. I bet the rings and pistons are shot. Anytime you turn the engine over with the plugs out, use the ground lugs on the engine for the spark plug caps to keep damage from the electrical ignition components.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Karl

 

[94silver]

It sounds to me like the rings are catching on the ports in the engine...I would pull the heads off and look inside. I bet the rings and pistons are shot. Anytime you turn the engine over with the plugs out, use the ground lugs on the engine for the spark plug caps to keep damage from the electrical ignition components.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Karl

Karl,

Thanks for the ideas, I will go ahead and pull the head off and see, what kind of damage would I see if the rings are mess up? will I see a lot of scratch walls?

If that is the issue can i just rebuild it with new pistons / rings / pin? If so where can I get such parts?

Thanks!

 

[kustomkarl]

Well, if the rings are real bad and the gouges are real deep than you might need major repairs/ replacements to the cylinders and misc parts. Pull it apart and we'll go from there.Let us know how you make out.

Karl

 

[94silver]

So I try to pull the head off and most of the screws snap on me any ideas what can I use to remove them?

 

[derek]

that sound, boys and girls, is the sound of a rotary valve not turning. that is a 96 gtx? cause that is a 580 motor. should be a 720, i would think. anyway, you need to pull the engine out of the ski, pull rv cover and you'll see something hung up in the rotary valve, stopping it. it wiped out the brass drive gear in the case. easy fix. cheap slide hammer. now. the broken bolts. that is a salt motor. those bolts ain't coming out. ain't ain't ain't. if you can drill stainless out of aluminun you are an artist. i dunno if you mean head bolts which break a lot, or top cover bolts which break all the time. if head bolts survive, and it is just cover bolts, you just need a head and top cover. if ANY head bolts break off, throw out the jug. then count your blessings it is a 580. the parts are cheap and common all over ebay. cyl's about 15 to 30 bucks. heads 10 to 20. top covers about 5.

 

[94silver]

that sound, boys and girls, is the sound of a rotary valve not turning. that is a 96 gtx? cause that is a 580 motor. should be a 720, i would think. anyway, you need to pull the engine out of the ski, pull rv cover and you'll see something hung up in the rotary valve, stopping it. it wiped out the brass drive gear in the case. easy fix. cheap slide hammer. now. the broken bolts. that is a salt motor. those bolts ain't coming out. ain't ain't ain't. if you can drill stainless out of aluminun you are an artist. i dunno if you mean head bolts which break a lot, or top cover bolts which break all the time. if head bolts survive, and it is just cover bolts, you just need a head and top cover. if ANY head bolts break off, throw out the jug. then count your blessings it is a 580. the parts are cheap and common all over ebay. cyl's about 15 to 30 bucks. heads 10 to 20. top covers about 5.

REally so the rotary valve? Do you have a picture of what that looks like? The bolts that broke are just the top cover, I think I can drill those out and maybe apply heat to the head bolts so they don't snap off...

If you can show me where the rotary valve is then I'm golden! I'm going to try to pull the motor off the jetski this weekend.

 

[derek]

go to ebay. specifically ebay motors. search seadoo rotary valve. you will get pics of the rotary valve, the rotary valve cover. it is the big round thing under the carbs. inboard of the carbs. circle about 6 inches in diameter. you will need a new valve and drive gear. cheapest way to get a drive gear is get a whole set of yellow cases off ebay. about 5 bucks plus 15 ship. otherwise the gear is about 40. BUT FIRST- you need to get engine out of ski. PM me with your phone number. this is a lot of explaining. derek. email vallejo44@msn.com.

 

[derek]

go get some PB Blaster. best penetrating oil there is. soak the tops of the broken cover bolts. cover is gonna be a fight to get off, without damaging the top of head. the salt build-up between the bolt shafts and the cover is almost as tight as still having bolt heads. you will notice the heads broke off. the bolts didn't break at the base where the screw threads are. heat with a torch-soak-heat-soak. once the cover is off, you Might be able to get the bolts outta the head the same way. I broke off 3 and they all unscrewed. the one motor where i broke them all, i tried to drive cover off with a screwdriver and drove it right thru side of the head. then when trying to remove head, i broke half the head bolts. head and jugs went to the curb.

 

[94silver]

go to ebay. specifically ebay motors. search seadoo rotary valve. you will get pics of the rotary valve, the rotary valve cover. it is the big round thing under the carbs. inboard of the carbs. circle about 6 inches in diameter. you will need a new valve and drive gear. cheapest way to get a drive gear is get a whole set of yellow cases off ebay. about 5 bucks plus 15 ship. otherwise the gear is about 40. BUT FIRST- you need to get engine out of ski. PM me with your phone number. this is a lot of explaining. derek. email vallejo44@msn.com.

Ok so I see what it is now

Rotary Valve

And is this the drive gear?

Does this go on that big shaft that goes through the engine? if so you sure you can replace just that? It doesn't seem that way on the diagram from the service manual?

how far in is the drive gear in the engine?

Also what could cause this type of failure?

 

[derek]

number five is the drive gear. the pic you have is of a starter drive gear. close, but no guitar. go back to ebay, search sea* 580 crank*. there is a 580 white case right now for about 10 bucks plus shipping. has whole rot. valve shaft in it. right now i don't have a spare i can let go. heck here is the item number. just punch this in the search block; 300220180700

 

[94silver]

number five is the drive gear. the pic you have is of a starter drive gear. close, but no guitar. go back to ebay, search sea* 580 crank*. there is a 580 white case right now for about 10 bucks plus shipping. has whole rot. valve shaft in it. right now i don't have a spare i can let go. heck here is the item number. just punch this in the search block; 300220180700

Nice! thanks so I should be able to just pull that and use it on mine correct?

I'm going to have to pull the engine this weekend.....

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I do not know if you are intrested but you can make a good profit by parting out and this is the time of year. On ebay you might get from 500 to 2000 in parts but I can allways be wrong. good luck :cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

Nice! thanks so I should be able to just pull that and use it on mine correct?

I'm going to have to pull the engine this weekend.....

This should be an easy fix to get you back in the water. Keep us posted if you need help, if you get in a jam.

Karl

 

[derek]

you need to pull the jet pump and the motor. 96 the pump should come pretty easy. once motor is out, remove rotary valve cover and rotary valve. don't worry about timing, the timing is already out the window. now, you need a fairly big pair of inside snap-ring pliers. pull out the snap-ring. most of the $10 auto parts store slide hammers are metric, which is perfect. I use honda accord battery hold-down bolts. i have tons of them. the top cover bolts you are breaking are the same thread. i cut them down to about a 2 inch piece of thread. screw it into the slide hammer, screw it into the rotary valve shaft. half a dozen bangs and it is out. i bang them back in with the slide hammer same way. then you hafta finesse the seal in a lil deeper so the snap ring will seat. now you have to time the rotary valve. do you have a book yet?

 

[kustomkarl]

Derek's way will work...If you want you could join as a "premium member" As a premium member you can down load a authentic seadoo manual from the seadoo manual library. In the library is a variety of manuals for almost all years and models. You can view as many as you like on line as a PDF file, or download it and print it for your personal and privet use. There are operator manuals and repair manuals for you to do your own repairs on your seadoo. The repair manuals have everything from troubleshooting, repair procedures to winterizing. It contains wire diagrams, torque specs, Rotary Valve Timing and pictures for disassemble and assemble instructions. In the spec sheets it tells everything needed to maintain oil changes, spark plug gaps and impeller wear ring tolerances. Click on the "Seadoo Manuals" link at the top of the page for more details. If you need any help or get in a jam, we are always here to answer your questions too.

Karl

 

[derek]

but the manual says buy the correct tool.

 

[94silver]

Just as an update I took off the carbs today and derek was right:

For what I can tell it looks like someone might have been servicing the carbs and they drop a screw through one of the cars since I found the screw in the intake and it hit the rotary valve causing it to melt part of the screw and scratch the surface a bit.

Now my question is, it seems like after I pull it I'm able to spin the motor with no issues (even with the spark plugs in) so I might have gotten lucky and the gears inside might not be stripped.

Any ideas how can I check that?

 

[derek]

turn the motor over slowly by hand. you will hear a click at the bad tooth and see the rotary valve jump. if not, you might have danced between the raindrops. i doubt it. i have done it to the same motor 3 times now, and wrecked 3 brass gears. i would pull the motor and replace the rot valve gear. it is only a couple of hours out and a couple more back in. if you want to re-time it and try, it won't do any more engine damage. except for quitting on you because the valve jumped time on the bad tooth. it is still too cold to swim back. oh, you're in florida. jump in, the water is fine.

 

[derek]

ok; you are gonna try it. set front cyl to tdc. a chopstick, a straw, a cut down piece of coat hanger. and roll the motor back and forth across tdc until you feel you have it centered. there is a good 10 to 15 degrees of rotation where you can't feel up-down movement. you wanna find the middle of that area. now, put the RV back on so it looks like this picture. (if i can figure out how to attach. the book says you can't use the case mark just behind top-center on the RV ring on the block for white motors. but when i timed mine up the rear of the RV lined up perf with that mark- just a hair behind. you can flip the valve over to get closer. ok pic is on site. you can see the alignment mark nice and clear. good luck. stay close to the dock or ramp for a while if it works. note: this timing works for a 580 motor ONLY. a 650 or 720 has a wider open part of rotary valve, and the timing mark won't work. i am fairly sure that motor in video is a 580. unless somebody figured out how to put a 580 head on a 650. i tried. doesn't fit.