951 DI fuel pump, how serviceable is it?

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68ragtop

68ragtop

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I believe I have the electronic gremlins figured out on the 02 RXDI project. But now that I am able to move past those, I realize the problems go even deeper.

Its running out of fuel as I raise the RPMS over 5K. Appears to be fuel delivery because of the way it would starve at a higher RPM & then be hard to restart. So, I pulled the fuel pump and was a bit mortified to see the the way it looked. The bottom section is scaling from either from a build up of some sort, or contaminated fuel. either way, its nasty. Planning on drilling out the two bottom rivets in the hope that the pump can be removed from the backside of this bottom plate.

But, I don't want to try it if thats going to permanently damage something. Either way I needy o clean this up, before I can even begin to evaluate the pumps condition, or anything else in the fuel system.

Going to DI school in record time with the project.. haha.
 

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Search the DI fuel pump thread. You'll find good info there. I don't believe they can be tampered with. There is a non-OEM pump that has has some good results.
 
Thanks, I'll search some. Not looking to pull the pump motor apart, just hoping to remove it from the bottom plate on the baffle. Unless the pump is part of this plate? I guess I'll find out!

I don't want to replace the pump just yet as I have not verified its pressures, or the fuel filter. I am hoping to clean this up & then start checking the rest of it. I wonder if this is another ethanol victim.....
 
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I have it all apart. Well....., almost.

The plate & motor is removed, Only thing I am still struggling with is what looks like a check valve with a washer over the top.
Either this ski was used for exploring the titanic, or was ridden for a couple seasons with the gas cap removed. Crazy corrosion in there.

Going to clean up the pump & see what PSI its capable of. If the pumps internals were exposed to the same thing as the outside, My guess is, its toast.

Also, the fuel tank has really, really old fuel & it has premix in it. top end has been gone through on this machine, & I'll bet this was added while they were breaking it in. Not sure how much that helps on a DI engine. I don't think this thing has run right in years, probably why it has lower hours. What a mess..
 
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Premix fuel is actually thicker and "sticky" and is terrible in a DI ski. You want to flush that fuel system thoroughly and change the fuel filter/ inspect injectors. I believe the pump is a walbro. grizz is an expert with them if i remember correctly.
 
I haven't looked that close, but I am guessing the engine has to be pulled to get the tank out.

I have the pump all apart now, going to glass bead blast the affected parts & test the pump. Should be 107 +/-
with no regulator? I'll probably test it in kerosene or mineral sprits to keep the potential side effects at a minimum.


Once I get this straightened out, I'll be pulling the engine anyway. Don't trust the work thats been done & needy o make sure the engine isn't a time bomb. Well, more so than they are normally....

68

EDIT: I did a little research like you mentioned. Sounds like the HFP-342DI kit from high flow performance is the best alternative. (I assume it still is?) I will probably just order a pump kit, as I can't imagine this pump I have is any good. I will probably need to find a donor housing too as the media blasting revealed that the base is a bit pitted where the check valve is located
 
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In the pic where all the crud is should be a bag filter. Number 23 on the parts schematic. Also inside the pump housing attached to the bottom of the pump is another filter. I can't remember the O'Reilly part numbers, but they are about 5 bucks a piece. When you get the pump out of the pump housing mix up some gas/toluene and run it through the pump. (4 parts gas 1 part toluene) It will clean all the crud out of the pump and add years to the pump life provided you replace the filters, clean the tank really good. You will not be able to run premix with a DI and if possible buy non ethanol gas. Ethanol gas attracts moisture. Moisture is bad for DI's, they don't like it at all. If it is not possible to run non ethanol fuel, then use stabil in every tank.

Take some time and read the thread I referred you to in your other thread. There is some really good info there.
If you run into any trouble PM Bills86e or Doowacka. They can help you way better that most when it comes to DI's. Hope this helps.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?46680-DI-Seadoo-Fuel-Pump
 
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All parts were there, looks like a pretty simple system now that its apart. I just didn't want to wreck something as I hadn't had one of these part yet. I do a lot of small engine work as well as mess with seadoos, & sleds. The ethanol gas just ticks me off. Does nothing but cause problems. I think this ski was sunk, or came from a salt water environment or something. Not salt water within 1000 miles of here tho. There is a lot of corrosion on the engine block & various brackets. Rebuilt quite a few skis now & have never see one this bad. Now I am finding its in the tank too. Crazy....

I did read the other threads. Sounds like the pumps pretty much fail on there own, so with the added corrosion this pump has, I am guessing its toast. Im probably going to re-install it just to verify this, before I start throwing parts at it.

Thanks again,
 
Thanks for the links! If a pump is needed, can I buy the pump from high flow performance separately, or just buy it in kit form?
 
kicker said:
The bottom filter screen part number is FS242 and you can get most any auto parts store
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ehicleIdSearch=-1&searchTerm=fs242&showTitle=
.
The smaller inner filter screen is FS220.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ehicleIdSearch=-1&searchTerm=fs220&showTitle=

http://www.highflowfuel.com/i-90518...on-seadoo-sea-doo-gtx-di-rx-di-2000-2003.html
If this is the pump you are referring to, it says that the strainers come with it.
Click to expand...

The smaller screen? $27 from seadoo in Canada. I kid you not.
 
I think its awesome that those filters are available & in stock at my LPS.

Still not 100% sure what the check valve in the bottom of the pickup is for. IT would appear maybe to prevent the fuel in the baffle from draining back into the tank.

Only thing I can think of is that it might be to keep the baffle full of fuel (from the return line) so that the pump stays submersed & running at cooler temperatures as the fuel level gets low. otherwise I don't see a purpose for it. Anyone know for sure?
 
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68ragtop said:
I think its awesome that those filters are available & in stock at my LPS.

Still not 100% sure what the check valve in the bottom of the pickup is for. IT would appear maybe to prevent the fuel in the baffle from draining back into the tank.

Only thing I can think of is that it might be to keep the baffle full of fuel (from the return line) so that the pump stays submersed & running at cooler temperatures as the fuel level gets low. otherwise I don't see a purpose for it. Anyone know for sure?
Click to expand...

Bingo, you nailed.
Not sure if you read this yet, but here is some light reading for you by Doowaka, he seems to know his chit with these things.
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...Direct-Injection)-Fuel-Pump-Replacement-Guide
 
That would appear to be a great fix! The washer in the check valve was corroded to the bottom plate. No question the pump had a very hard time getting fuel to the rail. I have everything cleaned up, but I have a gut feeling this pump is going to fail miserably. With that much crap around it, its hard to imagine the inside of the pump is any different. But, It worth the test & thats why I buy these machines anyway. It's a hobby. ;)

The tank is drained, & that fuel was really old. The amount of crap that was left in the bottom was surprising. This ski has experienced some really bad fuel in its life. The good news is, I was able to clean the tank whiteout removing it. Unlike my carb'd machines, I was able to get my arm partly in there & also use a shop vac to suck out the remnants of debris.

I am on the fastback with the learning curve on these, but its getting demystified a little each day. Now I just have to hope the rail & injectors are in good shape.

While I am curious what kind of PSI the pump can produce, I wonder if I should just replace it now. I will probably ride this one next year & isn't worth the $150 if they are notorious for failing anyway?
 
68ragtop said:
That would appear to be a great fix! The washer in the check valve was corroded to the bottom plate. No question the pump had a very hard time getting fuel to the rail. I have everything cleaned up, but I have a gut feeling this pump is going to fail miserably. With that much crap around it, its hard to imagine the inside of the pump is any different. But, It worth the test & thats why I buy these machines anyway. It's a hobby. ;)

The tank is drained, & that fuel was really old. The amount of crap that was left in the bottom was surprising. This ski has experienced some really bad fuel in its life. The good news is, I was able to clean the tank whiteout removing it. Unlike my carb'd machines, I was able to get my arm partly in there & also use a shop vac to suck out the remnants of debris.

I am on the fastback with the learning curve on these, but its getting demystified a little each day. Now I just have to hope the rail & injectors are in good shape.

While I am curious what kind of PSI the pump can produce, I wonder if I should just replace it now. I will probably ride this one next year & isn't worth the $150 if they are notorious for failing anyway?
Click to expand...

Not sure on 2002 DI, but my 2000 DI is 107psi. I think they are the same just check your manual to make sure.
In replacing the pump with an after market pump, the key is to get 107psi without drawing to many amps, otherwise your battery will not keep a charge.
 
jhjesse said:
Not sure on 2002 DI, but my 2000 DI is 107psi. I think they are the same just check your manual to make sure.
In replacing the pump with an after market pump, the key is to get 107psi without drawing to many amps, otherwise your battery will not keep a charge.
Click to expand...

The service manual does say 107 +/- 2psi at crank & running. I would guess that's regulated pressure, so I am currious if the pumps are at or near max pressure at that point, or if they are capable of over 107 unregulated.
 
Advanced Auto Has the filters in stock, I'll swing by there after work.

Sorry if this has been covered already, but is there a decent replacement fuel filter for these beside the $150 seadoo unit?
With the way everything else looks, I am sure its somewhat compromised.

Given the size of these filters, I am guessing they have a long expected service time otherwise?
 
I thought the pump came with the strainers/filters? Or are you still going to revive your old pump?
 
kicker said:
I thought the pump came with the strainers/filters? Or are you still going to revive your old pump?
Click to expand...


Sorry, Bad choice of words on my part. Planning on picking up the two internal filters & testing the pump first. The Filter I was meaning to ask about is the high pressure filter that is inline after the pump. I'm guessing this ones a bit compromised. Seems about 150% overpriced from seadoo.

Thanks!
 
68ragtop said:
Advanced Auto Has the filters in stock, I'll swing by there after work.

Sorry if this has been covered already, but is there a decent replacement fuel filter for these beside the $150 seadoo unit?
With the way everything else looks, I am sure its somewhat compromised.

Given the size of these filters, I am guessing they have a long expected service time otherwise?
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is acceptable to most others, but I cut the special ends off the hose and installed an all metal wix 33095 filter with a couple of heavy duty hose clamps. Have run two seasons and replaced the filter twice with no leaks.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/WIX0/33095.oap?pt=02515&ppt=C0024
 
Well, It appears I am back on track again!

I cleaned everything up, tested the pump in a bucket with solvent & the pump seemed strong. Once I primed the line, I closed it off & the pressure rose to 150ish PSI in a split second. It actually surprised me & I cut the power at the same time. So if anyones wondering, the oem pump is capable of way more than the 107psi the regulator is set at.

So I installed the new filters, made a new gasket for the pickup plate, sealed it up & riveted it back together. I also decided to remove the two power connectors on the harness, soldered them & tinned the fuel sending pins to improve there connection. The connection pins were a bit corroded like everything else in the tank. I still slid the plastic retainer down to protect the wires, but I feel better having those soldered.

I Dropped the pump in & popped on the lanyard. 27PSI right on the button. Hit the switch & it sat perfectly at 107. I did notice the pressure will actually jump a little higher than 107, if I snap the throttle. 110ish for just a moment.

Engine seems to be running nice. No hesitation & it revs over 5K for the first time in who knows how long.

I still have more work to do to the ski. I plan to pull the engine to inspect previous work, and track down a oil leak.

I am impressed by how smooth the DI engines run. Almost as smooth as a 4 stroke. Also interesting how it uses the fuel pressure to cycle the RAVE's after shutting down the engine.


Thanks for all the input & help, 68RT
 

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Great to hear you got it running. :)

JMHO,
The pumps fail on these skis because the two internal filters never get changed. They get clogged up and the pump in turn burns up.
If a person will pull the pump once every couple years and just replace the filters, there is no telling how long these pumps will last.

Unfortunately SeaDoo never told anyone about the filters, they just sold the pump as a unit for $800 smackers. ouch!!
 
When I stopped at Advance Auto parts to pick up the filters, I gave the guy the Airtex part numbers. But he asked me instead for the make & model of the car. I told him 2002 seadoo. He turned to me with a funny look on his face. Then I smiled & explained what I was doing.

On a side note, I think its worth the effort to seal up the bottom alloy plate to the pump housing. Mine had a type of cork gasket that basically disinegrated when I took it apart. I cleaned that out & cut a new gasket & dressed it with avaiation fuel sealant & riveted it in place. Its evident now that seadoo wants that pump housing full of fuel even when the tank is just about empty. If the seal is broken or bad, its always going to drain back to the level of fuel in the tank when it sits for a bit. Not saying that would hurt much, but seadoo sealed them up pretty good orignally.
 
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